Hi skaters, I was wondering what are the reasons that make an axel the most intimidating and scariest jump (for those who don't agree, what's your most jump and what are the reasons that make it so?).

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** Skate 'til You Drop **

As Dick says, "It's the treacherous forward takeoff."

I think it is more than just the takeoff. It is the first jump that you have to do where you are effectively blind in mid-air. In all the singles you know where you are in mid-air by what you can see. In the axel and everything above it you have to know where you are in mid-air by feel. Not having the reassurance of being able to see where you are is a scary barrier to overcome. The good thing is that once you can do it, the axel is a great jump

John

A friend landed hers today for the first time in some weeks - she came into the pros' room later, when we were changing, and demanded that the kids - who had seen it - bore witness to her having done it to her coach, who was not in today. She said, "I don't suppose for one moment I'll be able to do it in my lesson, and he might not believe me!"

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Every now and then my coach has me try the axel but we've never really spent any decent and consistent time on it. However I think for me it's that extra bit of rotation that makes it scary. I can't even do it off-ice so I can't imagine ever doing it for real on the ice but I guess I can dream!

Nicki

I hadn't thought of it this way but that makes a lot of sense. When I started working on my axel recently after a few years of concentrating on moves, I was skidding the take off and not kicking through at all. It felt more like a regular jump that way, but it was always 1/2 turn short and never consistent.

A few days ago I decided to go back to an old exercise of doing a waltz jump-axel "combination". It felt very odd at first (got a lot of height but no rotation) but after a few times I was able to rotate much better. It actually felt like an *axel* instead of a "throw and pray" kind of jump. For some reason I cannot do the waltz-backspin exercise for axels so waltz-axel helped. It's still extremely eville, though.

If you have ever witnessed a "w-axel"... an axel gone really bad, that is enough to intimidate you!!!!
I think it can be scarier than other jumps for a couple of reasons, mainly it's the forward entry though. But a few other reasons..... the follow through before the rotation starts - an odd feeling to get used to, that extra half rotation is deceiving - it feels like a lot more than just a half revolution!! Another is how easy it is to drop your shoulders, and not be square on the entry and finding out how much it hurts when you fall!!!

Just my thoughts!!!

Dick Button was the main reason why I had such fear about the axel. Every competition that Dick commentated he kept mentioning how treacherous that forward take-off edge of the axel was. So of course I carried that mentality onto the ice with me when I was learning the axel. Evertime I stepped forward into the jump, I would think of uncle Dick. I like Button but, seriously, I wish he would shut up about the how "dangerous" a jump the axel is. People learning the jump don't need anyone else to put extra fear into their heads about it.

For me, it has to do with a quantum leap notion. Namely, doing toe loop, loop, and salchow are all really half jumps. The flip is more like a full-rev jump, and this jump was first hard to grasp becasue I was so used t oonly doing 1/2 revs. But the axel is 1.5 revs. That's nearly 3 times the revs of the first 3 jumps listed here. That's a big change for a clunky adult (like me) to master. I know, I know ... you can do 1 1/4 revs or cheat the take-off, but I'm talking about the real-deal jump.

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I think it's because there's not another jump with that "feel". I've found with the doubles I know how it's suppose to feel because I have the single. With an axel, the "single" is a waltz jump, and the axel does not really feel like a waltz jump.

For me, it's not the axel takeoff -- it's the fear of not landing it on a back edge! I'm terrified of landing face-first or sideways. I'm not afraid of a lot of skating things, but that's one of them.


I tried a few last week at the Ice Vault Adult freestyle and I was pathetic -- cheated everything! Ah well, back to the MITF and footwork clinic practice.

Well, you can land face-first just doing a forward spiral. I have

I think a lot of adults learning this jump are just afraid to commit to it once they're air-born. They go up and then don't commit to pulling in their arms and legs at all and just let their whole body drop down on the ice again. You will never get the axel that way. It's rare that you will get a really nasty fall from doing an axel. Even a waxel fall doesn't feel that bad once you've done it. Just commit to it.

verperholly,

Your cw layback looks much better than your ccw layback, but you jump ccw and do you do all of your other spins ccw as well? Or can you do other spins in the cw direction also?

Yes, I jump CCW and do *most* of my spins CCW too. I learned flying camel CW, so I am relearning it CCW now. It's still not as good as CW but getting better. I can also do a sit change CW but no forward camels. When I got my boots rebuilt, my CW spins went out the window so I decided I should start doing *all* my spins the proper (CCW) way. I never thought I'd be able to do a camel-back camel but lo and behold after a few weeks I could sort of do it.

I have just about given up on the CCW layback. It is terrible! It would be very nice to be able to do but I don't need it in combination for any test so I can just do a much more stable CW layback.

For those who didn't find the link on the other thread, it's here:
http://www.vesperis.com/video

There are also some axel videos there too if anyone wants a looksee.

I really liked your videos, Vesperholly. How long have you been skating, and what level are you in?

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Sasha Fan
Supporter of Alissa and Amber Czisny

Hey, I landed face first doing a bunny hop...

The kids around here learning the axel do a lot of off-ice training for it before they do it on ice. Sometimes it's more dangerous to be in the locker area than on the ice! All those little jumping beans hopping around trying to get the feel of the rotations makes me dizzy just watching them!

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So did I!....and one of the first times I was in my new skates (the change in toe pick from Jackson Mystique to Competitor is HUGE!!)....and when I caught an edge doing a 2-foot turn....Matter of fact, I think I've fallen on everything possible.

I'd rather fall on an axel than a bracket any day!

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I'm not really a fan of the forward takeoff. It has crossed my mind that I'm "throwing" myself off a cliff. It's always that moment when you lift your free side to push up into the jump. I've found it's best to foucus on the rotation and landing instead.

Chico

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

Ack, I have Mystiques and was thinking of upgrading to the Freestyles (not Competitor) when I need new skates again. Does the size of the toepick make it necessary to "learn" things over? I never thought the toepick would change. (I guess I never even thought about it!)

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Sasha Fan
Supporter of Alissa and Amber Czisny

I'm with you on the bunny hop! I was never really taught it and the one time that I was asked to demonstrate it I fell face first and slid across the ice on my tummy .......

Thinking about it, the BUNNY HOP is my scariest jump!! Sad, I realise, but at least you have the rotations on the axel .... this baby is forwards to forwards. I haven't 'got' the axel but I'm happier to try and axel than other jumps .... weird I realise, and if I'm happier with it why can't I do it???

I think that a lot of the 'problem' with the axel is that you're always told how difficult it is and how it take 'x' long to get it ..... I'm not saying that it ISN'T challenging but then so is the loop when you're learning it, so is a spin. Maybe we should all not make such a big deal of it and then the brain won't automatically go into negative mode?

I twisted my ankle doing axels off-ice

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The best whisper is a click

Oh man ITA about bunny hops! One is ok, but doing a bunch in a row, especially when you get going pretty fast....it's so easy to catch your toepick and sliiiide

Is that the commentator? In the days when skating was shown on television (I do hope we get some next time there is a Winter Olympics, but somehow I doubt it), our commentators never mentioned any danger, except in lifts with pairs skaters. In fact, they were very often silent during the programme (always, when it was a dance), and just commented during the wait for the marks, especially if there were replays of the highlights and/or low bits.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

You and my Robert both! It's my favourite jump - the only one I can actually do! In our waltzing cat routine Robert reckoned I was evil because we had to do 2 bunny hops in the step sequence, one on each foot. Well, it was easy..... I thought!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Add me to the list of skaters who fear the bunny hop. I hadn't done one for years and was then required to do two at each performance of our Christmas show. After a few hesitant starts I actually found they're not so bad after all, but equally they're not something I go around practising either!!!

Nicki