I've just watched the 2005 4CC (on tape from a friend - we're a bit slow in the Antipodes), and noticed that it seems that dance females are taller, and maybe heavier, than pairs females, yet the couples are still doing what seem to my untrained eye to be very difficult lifts.

Assuming that the couple is properly trained, how heavy can the female be compared to her partner, without the male partner needing a gold medal in the Super Heavyweight division in the Olympics to do basic dance lifts? Is there some magic ratio that skaters have observed in practice (eg: he has to be at least 10% taller and 30% heavier)?

I've observed from the Boots and Blades thread that some of the regular posters who are dancers are maybe my size or larger, but I don't know how large and/or strong their partners are?

I'm curious because *one day* (not soon, I assure you), my DH and I would like to do lifts and other fun stuff - once we get over the endless laps of chasses in Killian hold. (At the rate we're going, I suspect that our coach probably won't let us do anything else until at least 2049.)

One must fall 2049

__________________
The spotted bird flies
Rising through winds of turmoil
I am not regret.

basic dance lifts are more often done using leverage, not brute strength, so they aren't as difficult & the lady doesn't necessarily have to be a featherweight to make it possible. In fact, several years ago I was skating with a partner who weight 10 pounds LESS than me, and we were still able to do the required lifts! Not that he was flinging me around, but we managed. There are lots of simpler lifts than what you're seeing at Worlds!

When we needed to learn lifts, we took a few lift lessons at a ballroom dance studio--it was lots of fun & they had really good ideas for us. We did them a lot off-ice before ever starting on ice with them too. That's something you could start working on at any point, & would build your strenth & timing (which is also a big part of it) before you are ready to start on ice lifts.

Dance lifts are easier than pairs lifts because of (1) the ability to use leverage forces and (2) the balance point for dance lifts is lower than in pairs lifts. In any kind of lift, the woman must use her own strength, especially core strength, which is just as important as her weight. So a dancer can be larger and strong, and it will still be possible to lift her.

My partner is 5'11" and I am 5'9" I weigh about 30 lbs less than him and he easily inverts me and lifts me we are only on our intermediate FD so we are still doing relatively easy lifts. As stated above a lot of it falls to the woman being strong. I do a lot of pilates and ballet for that and we work on lifts w/ our ballet coach.

__________________
Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

I weigh several kg more than Husband does, but he can still lift me.

Mind you, when he lifted CoSkater64, he did exclaim about how light she was in comparison. He did apologise afterwards - he had need to!!!!!

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I'm surprised he's still in the land of the living...

I was showing hubby a lift I wanted him to do and he complained that he couldn't lift me-so I lifted daughter (same weight as me). I told him it was leverage and momentum, but he still refused to do it. I think he was afraid he would drop me. It was not an overhead lift, just waist high.

He is still a beginning skater and I think that the thought of lifting me on the ice while moving is too scary for him. I told him that I'm the one taking all the risks but he is too protective I guess.

I'm hoping he gets over it, because there's some really cool stuff I want to do for the exhibition skate next year (he dropped out this year) and lifts are part of it. If we do lifts, we will be the only ones (as pair skaters), besides the ice dancers.

Am I evil? He has no idea!

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Please, please, please don't try to get a beginning skater to lift you!! A man must be completely stable on his own feet before he even THINKS about toting a woman around. It's one thing to do it off-ice, but for everyone's sake, don't try lifts on the ice! It's dangerous. If you do, you will not instill awe in your audience; you will scare the crap out of them.

My DH is actually a reasonable freeskater - he has most of his single jumps and is up to the camel and backscratch spins. (He hates the camel - and spirals - because of the lack of flex in his torso, which is why his coach thought that dance might improve things...)

I'm comfortable on my own two feet (or one at a time) as long as I'm not required to spin (d-i-z-z-y....). I can't see me ever jumping past a waltz jump - the knees won't take it. I still need to do a lot of work to catch up with him on speed, strength etc - especially since he's CCW and I'm CW.

We're not doing lifts any time soon - I was just dreaming about what we might be able to achieve in the future. And wincing at all the work we have to do to achieve it. (Let's get past the baby dances first.)

I second, third, fourth fifth and sixth that!! Even off-ice, get someone to show him how to properly lift you w/ leverage--don't want to damage the spine. Also remember, lifts are still very taxing for a man, so don't expect him to be able to do them over & over in the same session. The first few times, you will both likely be sore the next day. **I used to have semi-permanent thumb-shaped bruises on my ribs from one lift we had in our program!**

Oh, let me clarify---we were on the living room floor and he wouldn't lift me!! No way were we on the ice!

I was just trying to show him that you use your body as a lever to get the other body in the right spot....I don't think he understood. My daughter did and we managed to show him (we each took turns being "lifted")

I'm sorry I didn't clarify this I'm waiting for him to become a better skater for next year's exhibition (we missed the boat on this year's show).

PS-this is a lift I've already done with another skater at the rink...it's really cool, but I can't dance with him because I'm so much older it would be inappropriate...

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

In this country, lifts are not allowed in the lowest levels of pairs skating. Nor death spirals, either, now I come to think of it.

In dance, lifts are voluntary at all the adult levels, but up to two lifts are allowed, even at the lowest levels. Most of us put at least one in! When we started, I had thumb-shaped bruises all over my leg. Another couple from our rink is competing against us at the British Adults, and it's their first free dance. The woman of the partnership was complaining that she had a very obvious fingermark bruise on her upper arms, just where all her work colleagues could see it and wonder what her husband had been up to......

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!