Ah, I just can't rotate this jump. It's EVIL.
Anyway, the problem - no matter how hard I work on it, my loop is frequently a half loop. I do it from a 3-turn and I jump CW. I have a really nice back 3-turn, so I don't understand why the loop's so hard for me. Does someone have any good tips for gaining height and properly rotating? I mean, c'mon, who the heck invented this jump? Even the flip is ten times easier!

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A half loop is not one half revolution of a loop jump--it takes off like a loop jump, revolves once in the air, but lands on the OTHER foot. So, is this what is happening, or do you mean you are not getting all the way around in your rotation?

If you are landing on the wrong foot, then it could mean that you are dropping your free hip, or opening your free hip and shoulder too much before/during the jump.

If you are not rotating the jump all the way around--which entry are you using? Have you tried another entry? When I learned the loop, I started by learning the back crossover entry, but that really didn't work for me. I switched to the FI3 turn entry, and that helped me get the gist of the jump. Then I switched to RFO3, place foot down, push into back crossover, and that eventually worked for me. (I jump clockwise.)

What does your coach say?

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I'm not sure... it turns a half rev. and lands on the other foot, but then I automatically hop on the 'right' landing foot. That's not right, is it? Just like I already said, I'm doing it from a 3-turn, and I jump clockwise. I can't do it from crossovers... it will be a mess if I try.

She hasn't seen it yet, since she just started teaching me it.
But I need to land it now. Ha, I am so impatient.

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If you don't want misery....wait until you see your coach and have it taught to you P-R-O-P-E-R-L-Y!!! instead of trying to "learn yourself bad habits"

it's much harder to undo those bad habits than to learn good ones in the first place

I'm currently unlearning the half-loop and trying to land the loop properly on the correct foot...it's only taking me, oh, a year? maybe more? so wait until your coach can teach you.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I love the loop and always have. This is my favorite jump. =-) I could share lots of tips, but I suggest, like the poster above to ask your coach. They will be able to offer the best advice for your mistakes. Good luck.

teresa

How is your backspin? The loop is just like a backspin, where you are rotating backwards over the takeoff/landing foot and you have the free hip closed with the free foot in front of the landing shin. The point is to keep that free hip closed and stay completely backwards instead of turning your head or opening out to face forwards. The difference between the backspin and the loop is that with the loop, you point your toes and leave the ice just before it turns into a backspin. I recommend the RFI3-turn entry for the loop because it keeps your weight over the landing hip so you are able to do a full revolution and don't 2-foot your landing.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

for the longest time, my backspin wasn't working because my body was "blocking" me.... it was darn frustrating!!!!

It's easier but still a struggle. My coach has earned her $$$ because she has found the million dollar solution to get me to finally backspin (it's only taken months!)

A good coach who can think outside of the box and troubleshoot is priceless!!!!!!!!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I was taught the flip before the loop, but that's not the norm now. Most of the coaches in my area teach the 3T loop after the Salchow.
Maybe it's a Catch-22: we know the loop takes longer to learn, so we start working on it earlier. Because the skaters are so unaccustomed to jumping (in many cases) it takes longer to learn. LOL

I despise that 3-turn entrance, but everyone teaches it now. It DOES eliminate the two-footed takeoffs that were a constant problem when we did the opposite-foot 3T/two foot glide. Learning to shift weight onto the back leg was hard.

The Loop Jump was invented by Werner Rittberger in 1910, which is why our European skaters call it a "Rittberger." Source: Wikipedia

Soapbox away, here's some tips on my all-time favorite jump:

Check arms/shoulders before the jump (CW: right side forward)
=> Most people square their shoulders on the BO edge.

Deepen the skating knee/ankle bend in preparation for the jump.
=> Provides spring/height and also helps check your hips, preventing on-ice rotation.

"Skating arm" rotates from the checked position as you jump; "Free arm" stays in front. (CW: Left comes from behind to meet right at mid-chest.)
=> Many people just square out and try to "scoop" the air in one place.

Keep the hips CLOSED and the free foot in front. Lift your free knee upon takeoff.
=> Opening the hips sets up a falling leaf and/or a half loop. The knee lift will also help with height and rotation.
Keeping it in front prevents you from dropping the free hip and ensures that the landing foot is comin' down first.


One of the drills I have my students perform (on a circle) is this: (CW) RO3, hold and check, double back 3-turn**, step forward, repeat.
** Double back 3-turn: Lift and hold their free foot in front while bringing the arms from the checked position to mid-chest.
Bonus: It's a nice little bit of footwork later for programs - it appears to "float" on the ice.

Good luck,

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I've been working to improve my inconsistent double loop and one of the things I have learned as an improvement to timing and position is the "continuous flow" loop jump technique. I also skate CW, so it will be really easy for me to describe to you.

Do a LFI mohawk so your R foot ends in front with a solid checked position. "Swish" your right leg out like you were going to do CW xovers. Let the R foot draw across the L in a continuous flow (don't stop the draw or change any timing while doing this part of the set up because if you "perch" before you press up into the loop, it can do some really funky things to where your weight and center of gravity not to mention it looks bad) on the ice while bending the L knee and ankle. When your upper thighs are pressed together and both skates are on outside edges, press off the R foot and then the L while bringing the L arm through to meet the R one in front. Don't let the upper body lead the rotation or the R arm and shoulder to go before you leave the ice. With the swish and draw across, the R foot will be in front in the air and the R hip closed but not blocking rotation. I know it's kind of hard to envision. (It was really hard to put into words.)

WELL??????? whats the solution?
Lyle

Thanks everyone!! That was a lot of useful tips! I actually went skating yesterday and I did it from a three-turn... and I think I landed it ok! ..for the first time!! There wasn't much flow on the landing, but it was a whole (or almost whole) revolution!! Thanks again guys!!

Also - my coach said I am allowed to practice all jumps up to lutz whenever I have a chance! Due to some issues, I take private lessons only once in 2 weeks, so if I progress at that rate, with the "practice jump with supervision" strategy, well - I am doomed. So I try to get as much as I can out of my skating time; especially the jumps.

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I guess it will cost you a million dollars for you to get it out of S@D, huh? (Sorry! Couldn't resist that one... )

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

What? Lyle, are you having this problem also???? My left hip and shoulder have been blocking me from spinning (weight too far on right side)...her solution was to have me do it from a pivot after circling around once and try my darndest to lift my left foot in front and bring my knee up making sure that my weight is entirely on that right side; I'm to keep my shoulders square or slightly to the left and look slightly left or straight ahead. My arms are wide open doing the "beach ball hug" thing. When I do this by myself, I'm to do them in front of the glass so I can see. I also have to arch my back really hard so I don't topple forward (it really helps!) because I tend to toepick a lot on these. Oh, and not go fast....cause speed kills the backspin!

It's helping! I can go around 1-2 times, sometimes 3! then I do the backspin-hop, just add a hop to the backspin and ta-da! almost like doing a loop (without speed)....

I love my coach!!!!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Naw, cause if you skate, we know you don't have that kind of change laying around!!!

Sorry I didn't see the post earlier... I was at work so I could earn money for my next competition dress, ice time, coaching fees, blade sharpenings, gas and insurance, workout clothes, post-skating snacks, etc...... (I don't buy work clothes ).

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

What exactly ARE "work clothes"? I've HEARD of them.. but don't seem to have any in my closet?

(I'm lucky, I work an overnight shift, so I can go to work in jeans and sweaters. At one point I had a boss who showed up for work in his sweats with a bathrobe over them... his personal protest against working "the vampire shift".)

Ha-Ha-ha!!!! Thin-Ice that is sooooo funny! Work clothes, hmmmm. Well, I work as a civil servant (hey I am not a servant, just treated like one ) so technically there is no "dress code" other than for safety...

I have gone to work in skating clothes (pant, not my dresses). I did tell my boss that because there IS NO dress code, I could wear shorts and a halter top to work (I said this when I was bigger just to egg him-he's a chauvinist-type guy)...

Typically, we see all kinds-sweats, flip-flops (I'm NOT kidding!!!), jeans, to suits and stuff. I wear whatever fits (which isn't much, and 90% of my wardrobe is casual-jeans and t-shirts and workout/skating stuff).

And I bought a kick-a** pair of black zip-up boots this year!!!! finally! so now I own 3 pairs of shoes besides sneakers (not counting my hunting/camping boots). I'm soooo pathetic

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

You're pushing my buttons - we have two Admissions Counselors who wear flip-flops in the office all summer. I've seen them conduct interviews with prospective families in flip-flops with cute little plastic flowers on them. A GRANDparent Alum asked me about it once and I told him that she was swimming at the campus pool and someone took her shoes by mistake! LOL

Still, they probably think the same thing of me because I usually wear my podiatrist-prescribed sneakers with my dress pants and turtlenecks (for when I bolt to get to the rink after work.) I don't meet with anyone other than the staff, though, and my office isn't on the public side of the floor.

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Meanwhile, over at my job, we're all trying to figure out why us engineers can't wear jeans to work, considering that most of the time, the only things that see us are our computers, anyway.

I did get grief when I was on crutches and had to get creative with tank tops (so that I wouldn't get caught on my crutches), crops/skirts (that would fit over my cast, and whatever random shoe from my wardrobe was allowed by my surgeon. They bugged me again when I was only allowed to wear sneakers or merrells for a few months. I had to remind them that it was either accept the clothes as they were or accept me going back on disability

But I do remember when I used to work for Bell Atlantic when it became Verizon-- they published the dress code and all of our eyes when we saw:

1. No see-thorugh shirts
2. No vests without shirts underneath.

(sorry to hijack the loop thread, but I couldn't resist)

You're innocent, I forgot where I was posting and hijacked it first. Sorry. Pay no attention.

Loop help, huh? Rythm and practice is mandatory.

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Because you take lessons so infrequently, I really suggest that you get the ISU instructional tape/dvd series, "How to Jump," available at Rainbosports.com http://www.rainbosports.com/shop/sit...874DA3E6743738

This is a great tape series, and I have always thought that an adult could teach himself/herself how to jump with it. It would probably be a big help to you.

My "problem" with the loop in insecurity and letting go of that leg.... I KNOW I can lift that leg (do it all the time); I KNOW I can land this jump, did it once....it's being insecure 99% of the time and habit from the half-loop the remainder. I've already fallen on this jump a lot so I know I won't die (I'm not a ghost)... ...just feeling really stupid.


Was at it again...close, oh so close!!!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Mea culpa! I think Isk8NYC is also innocent... I'll take the blame for hijacking... SORRY!!! (and I seem unable to make the blushing smilie show up here -- so use your imagination please!)

As for the loop, when I was having severe-fear over this, my coach told me to walk myself through it off-ice, including raising the free leg (you don't have to JUMP it at first off-ice) and get really comfortable with that. Then do the jump off-ice, then do it with your eyes closed off-ice (make sure you have LOTS of open space around you). When you feel really comfortable with that, take it back on ice -- but keep your eyes open (hahaha!). Also make sure you are REALLY bending your knee just before you take-off and then when you spring up, make sure you're free leg is helping pull you up, not just going along for the ride.

I've had an on-going love-hate relationship with the loop. Right now, it's going really well... so I guess we're having a love-fest.. how appropriate for Valentine's Day!

Well, those of you who read the practice/lesson thread already saw this but...

Right now I'm having a REALLY good day with the loop! I've managed to get away from the wall and STILL land them clean! It's still not perfect yet, since I still rely on physical markers to get myself to land the darn thing... but I've managed to land quite a few clean today and a few yesterday after an initally HOPELESS lesson where I just couldn't get away from the darn wall to land them clean. (Yes, I actually did wall loops!!!)

After a LOT of nagging and some adjustments from my secondary coach, I managed to first land then on the correct landing foot, get stuck and THEN step out (before it was land them on the other foot, THEN landing foot and glide out...) Then it was land but hopping the landing, and finally with more adjustments, I've managed to get them clean and gliding with flow.

I wish I could tell 'ya how exactly I got them but there were just too many things wrong with my loop jump to determine an exact thing that kept me from getting it 'til now. Also, just b/c I could land them twice in two days does not mean I'll land them tomorrow. My primary coach already has gone thru that once in late 2005 where I was landing loops for a month, only to have them disappear right before a competition and took 'til NOW to come back from vacation.

Of course, my secondary coach attributed my finally landing the loop to these factors...

1. The backspin wall drill I've been doing. Still don't have it yet, but it wasn't the intended purposes.
2. Muscle memory... doing a SLEW of them at the wall to get used to landing the jump clean.
3. And the last one... her getting on my @$$ on me about getting landing them clean!!! (With that in mind, I also had to learn to "trust myself" to land them. It's my "mental fear" thing.)

So when do I say that I really have the jump? Do I say I have it now? Do I say I have it when I have it for more than a week? Two weeks? Two months and still counting? When I can do them in my sleep?

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I need to do them off-ice. That way I can concentrate on LIFTING my left leg. I forget to do that when I do the jump on-ice. I am getting closer, though and I attribute that to persistence and the backspin-hop drills I've been doing.

PS- Lyle has been quiet.....LYLE!!! HOW'S IT BEEN GOING???????

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Thanks for the opinions and advice everyone! Ah, I guess I'll excuse the hijacking, oh well. It's getting more consistent now. The loop, I mean. Lol.

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