I skated on an empty public session today, except for a few other adults and a coach with two students about 10 years old. This coach did nothing but yell at the students, and in a nasty tone too. This coach would scream things like "What are you doing? I don't know what you're doing! I told you to do stroking! We just spent 20 minutes on that and you still don't know what to do!" This was shouted halfway across the rink in some cases. In addition to that, this coach didn't seem to see what really needed correcting. It was almost impossible to ignore because it was so loud and the rink was so empty. I felt very sorry for the kids, and truly hope they don't come to that session again so I don't have to witness such abuse and incompetance again.

There is no way I want to ID anyone I'm talking about, hence no mention of where or even gender. If said coach happens on this board and recognizes what I've written, maybe it will do some good.

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It does happen unfortunately, I witnessed a coach who would do that daily to all h** students. I was told that *** was treated the same way by *** coach. They think tough and strict ways will work. Do I see any of *** student on national level now? Nahs, why? burnt out by their teen years.

I thought at one point I needed that kind of training, but thankfully I realized I controlled my own head they dont.

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Tim David's Website

I think it just tears people down, especially kids. I agree about why it happens and that's exactly what I was thinking. This poor coach probably experienced that from h** own coach.

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I agree, and from experience, that this type of coaching can make you feel like....dirt. I found that I was actually becoming a basket case just thinking about my lesson. As an adult I can't even imagine what those poor kids were feeling. And yes, I heard that my coach was coached this way. Doesn't make it right. And yes, it wears you down. I almost quit skating because I felt so beaten. I have a new coach now and I actually love skating again and am learning that I might not be perfect but I'm not hopeless. I wish parents would nip this behavior in the bud by moving their child to a new coach. Maybe then the coach would learn to teach different. The way to bring a person up is not by beating them down first. And, if that coach does read this, kids look up to you and you can really hurt them.

Chico

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

You are probably right, phycological child abuse can also be passed on just the same as any other type, what's more is that this person is getting paid for it.

There are two sides to every coin.

One possibility is indeed that the coach is abusive. If so, I'd be running the other direction as fast as possible. Nobody deserves to be verbally humiliated and abused in that way publically. I don't like coaches that think some people have "it" and think those without the "it" factor will never get any better and are a waste of time. Why? Because some of the best elite skaters out there had a terrible time learning their early skills but had the good luck and fortune to have a coach that guided them in right direction.

The other possibility is that the student is a severly spoiled brat that is giving the coach an extremely hard time--i.e. the student can do the skill but is just goofing off and being a pain in the a$$. Believe me, I've seen some kids that really need to be smacked in order to get them moving.... Judging when and where that's necessary is a fine line, kinda like what's a funny joke and what's a slam. Sometimes screaming is the only way to motivate some personalities.

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Keep Evolving. "From this moment forward, every voice that told you - You Can't - , has been silenced." - Freedom Writers

Surely if that is what is required then the child doesnt want to skate and the parents are wasting thier money.

I agree. This in turn begs the question - who are the wannabe skaters here, the kids or the parents? Many a time I've observed parents who, rather than just encouraging their child(ren) in a sport, they're more like forcing their child to do it - trying to live their own unfufilled dreams through their kids.

Anyways, back on the topic of screaming coaches...well I'm a real believer in praise in public, criticism in private. It doesn't do one any harm to have their skating 'pulled apart' - in fact it can be a good thing. However, criticism needs to be constructive. You can be hard on someone, but this doesn't have to mean yelling across a crowded rink - how does a coach expect to gain the respect of the skater by behaving like that?

S xxx

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

Not always - sometimes, certainly. But sometimes the kids do want to skate, but need a little - er - encouragement to actually get out there and get moving. Once they do, they're fine and work hard, although we all have off-days.

Let's hope this was a case like that, and not an abusive coach. Or not a coach who is regularly abusive - but if both skaters and coach were having an off-day, this sort of thing can happen.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

OK, just for the record then, the kids were not displaying any spoiled behavior at all. Also, I coach kids at their level, and the mistakes they were making were quite genuine and could have been "fixed" fairly easily if they had been addressed. There was very little actual instruction going on! We were all on the ice together for over an hour.

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I just have to add this, because I was so blown away the other day. First of all, horrible coaching doesn't always come in the form of verbal abuse (very unfortunate when it does,) but it can also come in the form of teaching really bad, or really incorrect technique. Here's my story:

I arrive at the rink early the other morning. There is one coach out there with this 7 or 8 year old girl. The little girl is having the most impossible time with her scratch spin and sit spin. Both spins are out of control, traveling all over the place, and she's falling out of them. I keep watching this over and over, again. The reason why the little girl can't do a thing with these spins is because her entry is so totally wound up that she is blocking her own body from entering the spin. All this coach had to do was correct this kid's entrance, and she would have had a much easier time with the actually spins. However, the coach just kept beating her over the head about the spins themeselves. The mother is standing at the door watching. I'm thinking that I could correct this kids problem in 2 seconds. I'm wondering what's wrong with this coach who can't see this very very obvious problem? Okay, then the kid and the coach come off the ice, and the coach starts telling the mother how well the kids doing. The mother is fawning all over this coach, because she doesn't know what she's looking at, or looking for, and I'm thinking "I can't believe this person is getting paid for being out there with this kid!!!" I really don't know how this coach became a coach???!!! I really wanted to say something to the mother, but that didn't feel right either. It was all incredibly frustrating to watch.

Simple - they just said they were one. Assuming we're talking about the US, we all know nobody has to pass any kind of test or anything to call themselves a coach. It's totally up to the parent or skater to check out a coach's credentials. And too many times parents and skaters are dazzled by a coach's own skating accomplishments rather than checking out what kinds of results they get with their students. Just because somebody can do something doesn't necessarily mean they can teach it effectively. Some people are naturally gifted teachers, but most would benefit from some training in educational methods.

Well, I guess that's where the Professional Skaters Association might come in handy in the USA. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think (as of now) passing your PSA rating exams is in full enforcement to qualify someone to become a coach. At the very least, having passed the ratings exams (I've seen them) would, again, at the very least, assure that one has basic skating technique knowlege. Now, whether or not a person has the gift of teaching is altogether another story.

That does sound bad but just make sure you're getting the whole story. My coach yells at me quite often but its not an angry yell. She is always nice but for example on my sit spin she used to yell:

"LOWER! LOWER! LOWER! GOOD! NOW HOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD IT, HOLD IT, HOLD IT, YOUR SO CLOSE JUST 2 MORE REVOLUTIONS COME ON"

I never thought it was rude, but it definately got through to mE more than her just telling me to do it. Its almost like having a cheerleader really.

I think some coaches probably are walking a fine line between using their voice to help you vs. making you feel useless and being rude.

So I think yelling is actually ok, but you have to do it at the right time and still be encouraging. Maybe for little kids I wouldn't do it at all.

Did you mention this to the ice rink itself because they could have a little talk with the coach to sort things out.

OMG! I know we don't skate in the same area, but I swear you must be on the ice with me because we have the EXACT SAME things going on with one little girl/coach combination along with the working on loops when she can't do a proper waltz jump, salchow, toe loop or edges or three turns!!!! I just want to scream when I see it or take the mom aside and talk her into a different coach...

I know, Tech...but, it really doesn't feel right to say anything to the Mom. The more I think about it, the more I think that the PSA (Professional Skating Association) is necessary. Let's face it, you have to go to school and earn a degree, or a license, or pass some test for mostly everything that one does professionally in this world. So, why should skating be an exception???

You don't even have to be a PSA member to coach in many rinks. Some do require it and also require Basic Accreditation, the test I just passed. I must say though, that passing the BA test most certainly does not "assure that one has basic skating technique knowledge", nor does it ensure that one has an understanding of educational technique, although the study guide does point the way, at least in terms of attitude. I was underwhelmed by the test, to say the least.

The coach I started this thread about failed in two ways, IMO. First, she was abusive in tone and content to her students and not encouraging at all. Second, she did not display any kind of teaching technique. She gave her students no tools for accomplishing the tasks she set them.

Skaters don't just need to know what to do, they also need methods of learning how to do it. A coach cannot just say "do this" and leave it. Some skaters will be able to do it, but no skater will be able to do it all, all the time, just by demo alone. I constantly seek new ways to help my students learn proper technique for the simplest things (that's all I can teach ), and I have learned that what may work well for one skater won't necessarily work for another at all. Putting people down, no matter which way you cut it, does not work in the long run.

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DBNY, our national competition was held here a few weeks ago. We're fortunate enough to have 2 rinks in this city , with the host being the other rink here. Alot of the skaters were coming to our club to practice on our freestyle sessions to get in the extra practice.

We had an incident with a similar coach, yelling and screaming at students! The coach was sitting on the sidelines, while my daughter was having her lesson with her coach (bear in mind this is our home club/rink).

When this coach was trying to get a student to do a particular thing, my daughters coach had instructed her to go over and start practicing her program, which meant that she was going to be in this skaters way at one point or another during her run-through. My daughter had her music on, and was being coached by her coach and this other coach had the audacity to give myself and my daughters coach a complete death stare because we were invading her space!?

I'm sorry but at our rink kids in lessons and those with their music on have right of way so this coach kindly got a death stare in return!

When we saw the coach at the Nationals with one of her Junior skaters, the junior skater hopped off the ice after finishing her program and burst into tears - no wonder! She was proabably scared at how much she was going to get yelled at by the coach when they got back!!

I dont' see how people can allow their kids to be coached by people like that?!

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

It just seems like these coaches - somehow - project this aura that they're going to take a kid far and that they know what they're doing. Parents who are new to the sport don't know any better and kids are too afraid to speak up to their parents (fear of disappointing the parents?) that they don't like the training methods.

So while all this was going on, how was the little girl reacting? Did she look paralyzed and intimidated, or was it rolling off her like she was used to it and it was no big deal?

Certainly in this country it isn't - our coaches have to have a minimum qualification to start training as an independent coach, and the lower the basic level of skating, the longer that minimum training takes, and at least a year in any case. Plus another couple of years to get your level 2, which is the minimum level at which one may coach independently.

Having said that, this doesn't stop some coaches sounding as though they are bullying their pupils; one coach was with his (adult) pupil at a competition, and the Husband was horrified at the way he was speaking to her - he said he wouldn't have put up with that man as a coach for five minutes! But the skater is still with the same coach several years later, so obviously they suit each other!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Whew! I'm glad I left for the other rink before the public session. {Sorry, wrong rinks. "Nevermind..."}

I agree that "anyone" can become a coach, but if this person's on staff at that rink, the SD should be made aware of that scene. If s/he teaches groups, that's appalling.

BTW, I don't believe that even the PSA ratings make anyone a better coach. Having it as a staff requirement is mainly how the rink cuts down on the number of coaches in any one facility. If you're serious about coaching, taking the test forces you to get some education, which is the far more important piece.

I've known many excellent coaches over the years that never took a single PSA exam. They did go to seminars, conferences, team teach, and network with other coaches. That's more important.

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It wasn't that rink, and said coach is not on staff at the rink where it happened.

One word: QUIET

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