Wondering if there are any adult skaters out there whose freestyle ability (jumps/spins) greatly exceeds their MITF ability? (Thereby making testing/competing under the current structure difficult.) These would primarily be adults who are very athletic, in extremely good physical shape, and who came to figure skating from sports like gymnastics, roller skating etc. If this is you, please contact me through a private message. For everyone else, please do not lecture me or try to fight with me. (This already got ugly on another board. I am not responding to any posts. )

Just wondering if there are any more out there.....

On a good day I'm pretty good at jumping and spinning (for an old geezer). I don't practice MITF so I assume I would be terrible at it. I've never been interested in competing. Mainly for two reasons: 1) I'm wildly inconsistent, and 2) I'd never be able to warm up in the time time alloted. It takes me a minimum of 20 minutes to get my legs.

I don't fit the profile you're looking for, but I know a couple of guys who came from roller with previous skills. One has never taken any MIF tests, because he tested to Silver level before the adult MIF structure was introduced. He's very close on his axel and double salchow, and I've no doubt he could pass Gold MIF if he worked on them. He doesn't have to until the jumps are solid, though, because he can use the axel at Silver anyway.

The other guy competes Masters level freestyle. I don't know his test history, but he's progressed through levels over the years, so I assume he's worked to pass the appropriate MIF tests. He does doubles for sure. He's the one who would have fit your profile best, except he worked on Moves and so does fit into the current structure.

The last guy I can think of who came from roller doesn't compete - in fact, doesn't do freestyle at all. He came from a dance/figures background in roller. But he's the biggest fanatic I know when it comes to balance over the blade and proper edging - he says it's all about the body mechanics.

Yes, this is the type I am interested in. If you want, (or if anyone knows of anyone else). Please direct them to forum and have them private message me. Thanks!

Ha ha I'm the exact opposite.

There are people who get stuck at certain freestyle levels because of the current test structure, too (some of whom came from other disciplines like synchro or dance and then decided to pick up freestyle). I wouldn't be surprised if I had my senior moves (and maybe a clean double toe) before I have a clean axel, but I can't move up to gold free without the stupid axel.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

I skated as an ISI skater, so I only learned a small bit of footwork for each level. Transitions were nice, but not mandatory. Yeah, I learned brackets and choctaws, but just for fun.

Footwork was never my strong suit, yet I could do flying spins and double jumps back in the day.

My MITF skills have definitely held me back today, but skate issues have really been a bigger obstacle.

__________________

I remember the day when you had to pass your figure test first -- and then go on to test the freeskate portion of it.. In order to pass your gold freeskate, you had to previously passed your 6th 7th figures and their freeskate portions -- and then pass the gruelling 8th figure test first.

I knew a few skaters who were working on double axels - but couldn't compete because they had failed the figure portion of the mandatory test for competition. Had to sit out the year and trace 8's over and over.......

There is a woman at my rink (in her upper 50's) that is great at jumping-she "accidentally" did an axle one day without realizing it. She also jumps & spins in both directions. But her moves are not really good. She doesn't have internet or anything-she is very lo-tech.

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

there's a college-student-aged skater I see when I go to noon public sessions (campus rink) who is like that - way impressive jumping skills (nearly an axel!) and just not a lot of miles under her belt re basic skating skills (I think she started lessons a year and a bit ago). She fell a few weeks ago and broke her ankle *badly* - her foot went one way and her boot got in the way of where her leg was trying to go in the fall. She looks like a "newer" skater though - despite the jumps.

There was another college kid like that a few years ago - he looked less "new" but jumped amazingly. Ditto, he didn't have a lot of the basics down - it was often kinda scary to watch him b/c he didn't seem to have that much "control" (though - really high amazing jumps).

The woman at my rink has really improved in her skills in the past year. She has a gymnastic background and is VERY flexible, can do a charlotte spiral better than anyone you see on tv. She is directionally-challenged tho and I think that holds her up. She is one of the most athletic, in-shape women over 45 I've ever seen! And very nice, pleasant as well.

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Hi Pandora, this is definitely me! I competed in gymnastics until I was 15 or so. Then switched to figure skating when I was 18. I can remember landing double lutzes and double flips before taking any of my moves tests. I later buckled down and tested up through intermediate moves so now my freestyle pretty closely matches my MITF level. That means I'll be with the lower of the two Masters groups at Sectionals, Nationals events, etc....

I think this is fairly common actually among male adult skaters. I can think of several whose spinning/jumping abilities (or both) are much stronger than their basic skating skills, even at some of the higher levels. It's either because they're fearless or just have the power/strength to launch themselves into the air (or both). One of the guys at my rink has massive jumps but his spins are weak and he needs to work on his moves, and another adult skater hasn't been taking lessons that long, is very athletic (and in his early 20s), and last I heard he was almost getting a double toe (no axel), but he only has pre-pre moves and can't spin well yet.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

I'm not in your category, but I basically wouldn't be able to test or compete in much of anything, because I lack the flexibility. I may never be able to do a "good" spiral, with a straight leg, upwards-curved-horizontal back. Hence I could never pass Moves, which limits what I could do even in Ice Dance. Likewise, I will probably never be able to get close enough to a spread eagle position to be able to make certain basic moves look clean.

I worked on flexibility fairly hard for at least a couple decades, but just could not make much progress. After visiting a PT/ATC I have started to understand some of the reasons - I wasn't using some of my muscles (e.g., psoas, gluts, various hip flexors), so those muscles never warmed up, and would therefore never stretch. What I did succeed in stretching - ligaments and joint capsules - wasn't the healthiest way to obtain flexibility, though it eventually did let me do shoot-the-duck and lunge, which limit some other adults. The unbalanced muscle use probably also helped cause injuries, and limited the strength available for jumps.

But when all is said and done, even if I had used and trained my muscles right, I didn't have an internal biochemistry that made stretching easy, and which limited attainable range of motion. Some people even have bone shapes that get in the way. There are a lot of people with such limits, through no fault of their own.

The requirement that one do flexibility moves like spirals to pass Moves, and the requirement (at least when I looked into it) that you pass Moves before many of the other tests and competitions certainly prevents many otherwise athletic people from doing stuff.

No one ever said that high level figure skating - or performance dance, gymnastics, diving, etc. - was doable by the general public, if they but try hard enough.

Every athletic activity has many people physically unsuited to mastering it, no matter how hard they try. The very hyper mobility that the best skaters, dancers, divers and gymnasts must have, makes sports which can unpredictability force their bodies into unsafe positions relatively dangerous to them.

I'm not at all surprised that people who have bodies well suited, by a combination of genes, diet and many years of hard and expensive training, to a sport according to current rules, would resent any effort to change it.

I suggested in this forum that there should be a form of recreational skating well suited to the bodies of most adults, akin to recreational ballroom dance, and received some strongly worded responses from people who were very unhappy at what they considered an attempt to dummy down figure skating.

They chose a sport at which they could excel. You can not expect them to want a rules change that removes their hard won advantages.

If you can do wonderful jumps, be happy at that incredible achievement! Don't worry so much about testing or competing. I watch the gals and guys competing on TV, and most of them don't seem to have much fun, most of the time. I've seen skaters fail a test and burst into tears. Why should you feel any strong urge to join that mess anyway? Do what you can, and enjoy it. You know in your heart you have worked hard and achieved something special.

How about posting some pictures here of your wonderful jumps?

__________________
Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

You'll be happy to know you could take the prebronze and the bronze adult MITF WITHOUT a spiral at 90 degrees. The straightline spiral pattern does not appear until adult silver. For the standard track test, they are considered the easiest moves, but USFS recognized that they could be difficult for adults, and therefore they are not required until later. The spirals on flats are the ONLY spirals required in the adult sequence.

And i'm pretty sure MITF have no bearing on your ability to take compulsory dance tests. (Though I think you do need them for free dance)

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

I think most adults were ahead in FS and lacked good basic skating skills. That's what prompted the introduction of mandatory MIF tests in the Adult track. In my experience, adults have less time to spend on the ice, and often, less money also, so they focus on what they enjoy the most, which is jumping and spinning. You don't have to be a super athlete to do a few good spins and single jumps. There was a lot of complaining when MIF was added because then adults were required to spend their limited time and money on MIF in order to test up in FS. I know quite a few adult skaters who have very nice single jumps and spins, but F and B crossovers that are scratchy and choppy and slow, F stroking that is stiff, and general lack of good knee bend. Those things can actually be harder to learn than FS elements.

__________________

FYI, Moves tests are NOT a requirement for dance tests, unlike Freeskate. Also, there are no moves requirements for adult dance competition.

There are moves requirements for standard track competition, but not testing.

It's also important to remember that one passes a Moves test "as a whole". That is, if your spirals are not up to standard, you can make up for it by doing other patterns very well and getting extra points there.

That pretty much describes me when I returned to skating at 50. I loved jumping, and couldn't do much else outside a couple of three turns needed to set up a jump. Fearless (or foolish) would describe my attitude toward jumps.

I loved gymnastic moves too when I was a teenager. I'd do front flips on the lawn, and dive from cliffs in quarries.

However I'm very much the opposite now. I'm nearing 60 years old, and I really enjoy MIF moves done well. Jumping has become more trouble than it's worth for me.

__________________
Bill Schneider

Well, I do think they should allow more flexibility in testing structure, which will welcome more adults to enjoy figure skating. You can certainly name me as one of the people backing you. But I would guess that you will need to find some influential people to make a difference.

I do enjoy improving my basic skills. But I strongly think that not having good grasp of basic skills should NOT be an obstacle or an excuse for not letting you learn nor one for not teaching you more advanced stuffs especially for adults who is looking for having fun.

I had very bad experience in learn-to-skate, since the coach was harshly strict on perfect 3-turns and they would not allow you into more advanced lessons before you pass lower level. It was a very big turn-off and made me very frustrated. Eventually I quit LTS and started learning by myself and was advancing faster than all the new skaters in those LTS (was never on the ice before then). Eventually it became hard to advance by myself. But fortunately I found a coach who's not in that club and had actually much more competitive skating experience than all the coaches in the local club. He taught me Sal during first lesson and I landed it. He does from time to time ask me to revisit basic skills though and I enjoyed.

If not for this flexible coach, I would have simply quit skating due to frustration. I enjoy jumps though I only do crappy singles. But the enjoyment keeps me going and it motivates me to keep improving basic skills, since I do firmly believe that better basic skills will improve my jumps.

I think people take on skating for different reasons and different people enjoy different aspects of skating. The test and competition structure should accommodate the differences and I think by doing so more people will take on skating as long term hobby. This will only help skating as a competitive sport.

I'm not one of the skaters being looked for, but I find it interesting that there's complaints about testing MIF before the Free test can be entered. In the UK there's no adult test system. We test with the kids and to the same standard. But you can take a free test without the equivalent MIF test. For the kids, it's a requirement at competition to have the MIF test of the level they're competing at (plus the Free test) but for adults, we choose our competition level. This is to accommodate returning adults who might have tested high as a kid and now have age limitations and adult learners who don't want to test. Peer pressure means that people pick the right levels.
A lot of adults choose to just test, others choose to compete and don't test, and others do both, and still more do nothing except social skating.
We might be somewhat envious of having adult tests, but I like the fact that if I choose to compete I do so based on my standard today.
And I equally like the fact that I can test up anything I might be able to do be that moves or jumps.

For many competitions, including the British Adult Championships and the Adult Internationals, this is true, but always, always, always double-check the entry requirements, as some competitions still say "Level 4 and under" or "Level 6 and under", especially in dance. So don't take it for granted....

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

That's good advice for anyone at any competition. There's nuances to all of them.

I am lurking here (of course!).
Would like to know more about British System. Did search and found the NISA site. Are the rules posted there? (I looked quickly but couldn't find anything.) Can you provide a link to the Adult Rules/Guidelines? Or may I PM you (fsk8r, Mrs. Redboots)???

I don't see how this would hold you back in moves, and (as others have mentioned), it wouldn't hinder dance unless you wanted to take standard free dance tests.

A lot of people can't do spread eagles. Doing them proprerly has to do with the way your femurs are set in your hip sockets (and flexibility on top of that). I've been skating my whole life, I'm not the most flexible person but I have decent spirals (nothing like a Michelle Kwan spiral, but I get the free foot above my head and have nice extension), can do a pretty nice catch foot and a recognizable Y-spiral. But I can't do a spread eagle at all unless I want to destroy my knees (some people who don't have the hip turnout force the turnout from their knees, and that's bad. Synchro skaters are doing that because you need a spread eagle to make any high level team nowadays and if you want to skate on that team, you have no choice...I wouldn't be surprised if knee problems in synchro are on the rise because of this.)

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

I have some fear now (altho I'm only 47). When I was a teen I did gymnastics in my backyard-had my own balance beam and did cartwheels on it as well (it was regulation size AND height off the ground. What was I thinking?) I also did some trick riding on my own...again, not sure if I actually THOUGHT about the dangers, fell off the horse many times (never did these things when my parents where home)
I really, really, REALLY wish adults could opt for EITHER the sit spin OR the camel spin in the bronze test level (US test structure). Since I blew out my back I can't get low enough on the sit-spin but a camel spin is possible. I have adults at my rink that have given up on the thought of testing because their knees are bad and also can't do a sit.

If the powers-that-be let adults substitute items of equal difficulty that might work.

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!