I thought I'd post my recent experience with new blades, because I was surprised at how much MK Pro blades have changed since the last time I bought blades way back in 1995. I'm also curious if anyone else has had a similar experience.

I've been skating on really, really flat 15 year old MK Pros. Before that, when I skated as a kid, I had Coronation Aces. I always had heard, and thought, that MK Pros and Coronation Aces were interchangeable.

The first pair of MK Pros I ordered had to be sent back because the rocker was not 7'--it was more like 5 1/2'. The rocker profile was also much rounder than I remembered from my old pair, and much rounder than the display pair of MK Pros at the skate shop. I attributed the enormous (at least to me) rocker profile to the rocker radius defect.

But when the replacement MK Pro blades came, with the correct rocker this time, the rocker profile was still much bigger and curvier than I remembered. The display blades, which the skate shop manager said were several years old, were much flatter and more like I remember my old blades being when they were new. I'd emailed Riedell and asked if the blade had been redesigned, b/c the toe pick is different too, but they said no. However, clearly the blade has changed.

I tried skating in the new MK Pro blades and found them to be unlike anything I'd ever skated on in my 35 years of skating, and not in a good way. In order to get up to my toe pick to attempt to jump, etc., I had to lift my heel about 1 1/2", which I've never had to do before. I felt like I was going to topple over any second. Spinning and simple 3 turns were impossible. I'm a Silver level skater, and I could barely do crossovers in them.

I ended up buying a pair of Coronation Aces instead, skated in them today, and was amazed at the difference. The ride-up to the toe pick is much easier for me--I only have to raise my heel about an inch. There is also more blade on the ice, which was important to me b/c I went down 1/2" in blade size due to new boot size.

I'd anticipated an adjustment period with new boots and blades, especially with the new sizes, but I was surprised at how much the MK Pro blade has changed over the years and how it no longer works for me, at all. And I was surprised at how much difference there was with the Coronation Ace for me, when the blades are considered to be so similar.

Just thought I'd share, since there is often discussion of the two blades in terms of comparability, and also I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has had a similar experience.

Supposedly the only difference between Pros and Aces is the toepick style. Now I wonder if maybe they have a slightly different sweet spot and a slightly different heel rocker. Even when comparing two different types of blades of the same rocker, they all are designed differently in terms of the sweet spot and heel rocker.

I thought that you were having problems just because your 15 yr old blades were probably flattened to around a 9' rocker, but if you skated fine on the Aces, makes me wonder. I'll stick around and see what others have to say.

Definite, definite difference in the heel rocker, at least between the two sets of blades I was trying out.

Funny enough, even though my old blades were probably flattened to a 9' rocker, like you said, I can spin just fine on them. I can't spin on the new Coronation Aces yet, but I think it's just a balance issue and I can tell that once I get that resolved, the spins will be faster.

Wow, sounds like the MK Pros and Coronation Aces have a different rocker profile for sure.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I'm going to encounter this same situation soon. I have MK Pros from when I skated as a kid about 13 years ago. Just started skating again and found the old MK Pros still had some life in them, but the rocker's probably pretty flat. I wanted to mount my old blades to new boots, but the fitter said the blades weren't the correct length so I ordered new MK Pros to go with the new boots.

So I guess I'll add my opinion soon on how the new MK pros compare when I start the break-in process for the new boot/blade combo next week...

Too bad no one has old, unused blades or profile tracings to really compare to a new set of blades instead of comparing sharpeners, lol.

If you start out with a bad sharpening, you'll never know if the rocker profile is different. You have to compare apples to apples with new blades.

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Actually, the display pair of MK Pros at the shop was quite old, according to the manager, and the display pair and the new pair of MKs were completely different in terms of rocker profile. I was really surprised.

Flyingcupcake, I'll be interested in what you think of your new MK's when you get them next week.

My current MK Pros (purchased and mounted last year) were old stock when I bought them, from an online hockey shop going out of figure blades. The first thing I did after pulling off the silicon bead was to trace off the rocker of both blades, before they were sharpened. I can post the tracing if it would help anyone compare old to new? (aussieskater hopes she can find the tracing...)

Even though blades are classified as 7' and 8' they're all different, because the curve isn't uniform throughout the blade, so always be wary of "interchanging" two different blades that seem like they are the same. Which I think blade companies should describe the profile of the sweet spot and heel rocker, to make it easier for us. I would love to see tracings of CorAces and MK Pros. I have new, unsharpened CorAces, but I need to find a camera. I'll post a tracing if I can.

According to this site, http://gofigureskating.com/equipment...ateblades.html, MK uses two radii and Wilson uses 3 radii. If you look at the diagram, that makes for a very different shape and affects the feel of the sweet spot. I also noticed that MKs can be either parallel or parabolic (http://www.skatetrix.biz/index.php?main_page=page&id=24.) Width parabolic blades the width (and bite of the edge) changes along the blade. i found that because I was searching to see if the width of your two blades is different.

Just to clarify, rocker shape actually varies between different blade models, regardless of whether they are MK or Wilson (which are incidentally now owned by the same company and manufactured in the same factory). For example, I recently switched from MK Gold Stars to Wilson Gold Seals and the rocker felt exactly the same in spite of the different brand and different rocker radius (8' vs 7'). I chose Gold Seals because I had been told they had a very similar rocker profile to Gold Stars so there would be minimal adjustment required. MK Phantom and Wilson Pattern 99 are also said to have similar profiles to each other, which are very different from the Gold Seal and Gold Star. I'm not sure about the Coronation Ace, but from what the O.P. said, it sounds like it might be more similar to the MK Phantom/Wilson Pattern 99.

Both MK and Wilson are available with the Parabolic option, but that is an optional feature and the blade will say "Parabolic" in large print on the sides. I personally noticed zero difference when I recently went from regular to Parabolic with my new blades. My husband actually measured the width of the Parabolic blades at each point with a digital caliper and said the middle of the blade was just a few hundredths of a millimeter narrower than the ends.

I think "parallel" just means the blade is not side-honed. In other words, it is straight down from the stanchion to the blade. Side-honed (which is different from parabolic) means the blade flares out a little from top to bottom as it goes from the stanchion to the actual sharp part of the blade (but there is no difference to the width of the blade between the center and the ends of the blade). Side honing will increase the blade's "bite" when you lean on one edge or the other, since it slightly changes the angle of the blade's edges in relation to the ice.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Ok, I've skated about three times in the new skates now. New boots and new MK Pros. I have to say it feels like I'm skating with stiff rocking chairs on my feet. I finally worked my way up to backward crossovers today, but I can't spin well at all! I still have just the temp mounts on so I haven't tried jumping.

I'm not sure if it's the new MK Pros though, since I'm changing boots AND blades at once, and I just returned to skating two months ago on broken down boots. A bunch of things could be the factor (including just plain skating skill suckiness ) so at this point, I'm just waiting and seeing. I will say that top pick on the MK Pro looks bigger than my old one (but my old one might have worn down from wear and tear?).

Is it normal to go through a crazy adjustment period when you switch blades? Comparing my old and new Pros, the old rocker is reaaallly flat and hte new one is nice and curvy.

That's a great analogy. I might use that when I teach, if it's okay with you. I'm always looking for new phrases to enlighten skaters about using the rocker for three turns and brackets.

Hope the boots break in soon, so you can take control of the blades.

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This is a very interesting thread and relevant to the prob I am having now getting used to a new pair of MK Pros. I have used MK Pros for ~17 yrs, not the same pair. i have replaced them several times. The last pr I had was purchased about 6 yrs ago and mounted on new boots. I wore them up until recently when I started on new boots and new MK Pros. Of course, my old blades had the life sharpened out of them and my boots were shot. New boots + blades is probably not a good idea at once.

Anyway, the rocker of these blades feels really huge. I feel very awkward skating on them. I assumed this was just my own fault for letting my equipment go for so long. I keep falling forward to the toe pick when doing 3turns and prepping sals, etc. Now I wonder if it is just me.

I have written about this in my journal, if anyone is interested. it is in the "current entries".

Kay

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Well, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who rocked and rolled around on new MK Pros. I don't know why they decided to put such a big rocker on them, b/c I never have skated on such a thing before. Kay, I don't think it's just you letting the equipment go for so long--I'd thought that about mine, too. But I know they've changed the design, b/c I compared my new MK Pros to the old display model at the shop, and they looked nothing alike.

I also found the new Coronation Aces too much of a struggle, especially with new stiff boots, so this week I traded the Aces in for Coronation Comets. I finally can skate again, even in the stiff boots. I can't jump anything past a waltz jump yet, but the spins started coming back right away and I felt much steadier overall. And that was on the factory sharpening, so I'm sure they'll get even better when they're sharpened to my regular grind.

I'm sure if I stuck with the MK Pro or Aces I'd eventually get used to the rocker on them. but I wasn't willing to put in the adjustment time to completely relearn my balance point. I figure if I can make the Comets work right away, then that's the right blade for me. My only complaint now is the straight cross toepick, which I don't care for, but I think I'll eventually get used to that.

Do you suppose what is really happening is that as the blade is sharpened, the rocker gradually gets flattened out, and you folks gradually got used to the flattened ones?

That would be the natural effect of a sharpening machine that did not enforce a rocker [note: some of them do, and some even have adjustable enforced rocker], if the sharpener didn't consciously make an effort to maintain the original profile.

Flattening the rocker is also a very common thing for a sharpener to do with blades that are starting to wear out as he/she starts to run out of metal and/or doesn't want to have to trim the toe pick.

Also, maybe what you folks are partly really feeling is the re-establishment of a sweet spot (a transition point, where the rocker changes, which is there to make spins and turns easier) - an amazing number of sharpeners try to create a uniform rocker diameter. Unless they carefully re-establish the sweet spot profile when they sharpen, a few sharpenings will usually kill the sweet spot. This is because it only takes a few hundredths of an inch of metal to create a strong sweet spot. What you will feel there is that you need more forward/back foot roll to go through it, and that there is a definite feel-able point there where the blade naturally and stably spins. Think of it as a very short length of the blade where there is a much smaller rocker diameter (sometimes called a spin rocker), though different blade manufacturers create that effect by a variety of ways.

Finally, I'm told it is well known that some blade manufacturers, including MK/Wilson, sharpen blades in a highly variant manner, even within the same model and length, and sometimes differently for the left and right blades. On top of this, many pro shops routinely re-sharpen new blades to the shape they think blades should have. So maybe you folks are just seeing one pair of blades sharpened differently from the one you were used to.

However, I never used MK Pro blades, so I can't really say nothing has changed in the design. And it never occurred to me to photocopy or trace the MK Dance blades I used to use, at least not when they were new.

Does anyone else have some unused blades (preferably with the factory sharpening, not with whatever their sharpener changed it to) that they could photocopy and post? It would be helpful to know when they were made, and what the model and length was.

A couple expert sharpeners told me that every once in a while MK apparently changed sharpening machines, and all of a sudden they would notice small changes in blade shapes.

One of those sharpeners also told me (caution: many years ago) that all the MK blades had the same rocker profile, regardless of model or length, and he had a profile template MK had sold him, but which was no longer available. But I have no way to confirm that is true, or was ever true.

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Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

When I switched to MK Pros I did notice how aggressive the rocker is. It's marketed as an intermediate blade, but the rocker is so aggressive, it's like that of a high freestyle blade.

When I get new boots (hopefully somewhat soon), I'm definitely getting rid of these blades.

The aggressive rocker is IMO one of the reasons why some people claim to have learned every spin under the sun on these blades, Lol.

Maybe if I were a few inches shorter and 30 pounds lighter they wouldn't startle me so much. Any bobble on these on these blades (like a rut in the ise that I hit suddenly) seems to send me on a roller coaster should I shift weight to compensate.

Of course the rocker on the old MK Pro's has flattened out. But as I've stated before, I compared the brand-new MK Pros to the display model at the pro shop, which the manager said he'd had on display for some years, and the new MK Pros and the unused older pair of MK Pros look like totally different blades.

Thank you! My thoughts exactly.

Haha, yes of course. Coaching analogies are the best, btw. It always helps me whenever my coach comes up with something, and she sometimes comes up with the most random ones!

Day 3 with the new skates tomorrow. These are only the second pair of skates I've had to break in so it's a learning process. Back to the blades though, I'm hoping to get a better feel for them once the boots are broken in.

Aren't Comets like an 8 1/2' rocker ??? UUm, sounds to me like you got used to really flattened blades before switching.

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Katz

Saved by Synchro!
I was over it, now I'm into it again !

Yep, they're a 8 1/2' radius. The rocker profile is more of an issue than the radius, and the Comet's rocker is not pronounced. And I like it that way. I've been skating for 35 years and have never skated on a rocker as pronounced as the one on the new MK Pros that I tried. I think I've been on fairly flat rockers my whole life and that's why the change to the new blades was more than I could handle.

Today I skated on my Aces and though I did not get a chance to test out any jumps or spins besides a hurried scratch spin at the end of the session (I had a jump and spin class, and the coaches decided to make us work on our stroking and edges for the whole time), I did work on three turns, stroking, edges, spirals etc. They do feel like they might have a flatter heel rocker. I felt like I had more stability and grip on the ice, and I had no problem turning/spinning even though the heel feels like it touches the ice more than my old blades. I could get more speed and felt comfortable at a fast pace, which is supposed to be a feature of 8' blades, not 7'.

Both my old and new blades are marketed as 7' rockered, and I put the same hollow on them. They look very similar side-by-side, but I did notice that the CorAces look wider and have a shorter tail, by nearly an inch. (My old blades are Club 2000s. I have never skated on Pros.) My theory is that the heel rocker is flattened out more near the end of the blade, and to compensate, they shortened the tail so the skater still had maneuverability. The tail looks similar to a dance/synchro blade tail, but a bit longer. If the tail was an inch longer the skater would have problems turning/spinning, as if it were an 8' rocker. I was mainly concerned about leaning back on my heels and falling off the back of the blade, but I was able to easily balance on the heel rocker.

From your description of the heels on the blades, san, it seems like we both noticed the heel rocker being flatter. Did your Aces have a shorter tail than your previous blades?
I also noticed that I couldn't turn backwards and ride up on the toepicks to stop, as I do often. I guess that's because the toepicks are cross cut? I didn't get a chance to do a toe jump, so I can't account for the debate on whether or not cross cut makes a difference.

I couldn't go up on my toepicks to stop on either the MK Pros or the Aces, and I think the issue is the larger rocker profile, not the crosscut picks. My new Comets have straight cut picks and I can go up on my toepicks no problem.

I didn't notice if the Aces had a shorter tail than the MK's, and I've given the Aces back to the shop in exchange for the Comets so I can't check. I really think that for me, everything boiled down to the roundness of the front rocker profile, and that's why I'm fine on the Comets, b/c its rocker profile is not nearly as round as either the Pros or the Aces.

The stopping on the toepicks going backwards would get you a few blank and fiery stares around here. It's dangerous (especially for the younger ones, who tend to develop that habit quickly and easily) and it can create more ruts in the ice, which isn't cool (there's already enough, with 80% of the skaters trying jumps!)

I agree about the MK Pros. Problem is I haven't had these skates/blades for a year yet and I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth it to keep skating at this point. I've paid like $800 for boots/blades and spent about $1400 going back and forth to get them skateable. More if you count medical bills since I've had to get things X Rayed, among other things.

I'm thinking of traveling to a more northern city like Chicago and getting someone to work on these a bit (I'm due for a vacation, anyways), or just waiting a few more months and throwing these away and getting a new custom pair with a different blade set.

Anyways... I'll prolly give another boot/blade a chance before I decide to give up. I'm growing quite frustrated seeing as how these boot/blade issues have obliterated all goals I've had for the past year or so.

I should have just gotten the boots that I wanted and not listened to the fitter. The reason why I got the MK Pros is cause of the cross-cut picks. The Straight Cut Picked blades I was using before kept slipping on toe jump entrances. The Cross Cut picks eliminated that, but there are obviously other (discusses in this thread) issues with that blade.

Can anyone comment on Jackson or SP-Teri boots, and whether or not there are any good fitters in the Chicago areas (contact information in a PM would be wonderful as well, for future reference...)?

Yikes, really?!?!? Good thing it's not an issue at my rink, LOL, as I tend to do it when my blades are too sharp to stop properly. I don't leave ruts, though.

The cross-cut toe picks on the Coronation Aces, when I used them for a few days before switching to the Comets, left tremendous divots in the ice, and I wasn't even jumping--just planting my pick for jump walk-throughs. My old MK Pros with the cross-cut picks never took chunks out of the ice like that. I am concerned about the straight cut picks on the Comets slipping--we'll see how it goes when I start jumping in them this week.

I have never worn Jackson or SPTeri boots, so I can't help there. I am happy with my new Riedell 875 boots, though.