I'll never be a good skater. On the other hand, I do think I can be a better skater than I am at the moment; I know I can use my edges better, I know I can probably improve my partnering skills (well, it does take two, but I think Husband is beginning to realise!).

And the next time my coach tells me that I am "not a natural athlete", which has been being said to me since I was about four years old, I think I'll smile very sweetly at him and say "Well, isn't that something I'm paying you to correct?"

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Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Totally agree. You can always be better.

Free skating teacher says I'm not a natural skater to me all the time but does acknowledge that I work hard and can get results. And she doesn't let my age be an excuse. She treats me the same as she does her 12 yr old skater. We do the same tests at the same time usually - we are both doing bronze field moves next month - and although 12 yr old is way better than me its good to know I am not far off.

Dance teacher doesn't really think anyone is a natural skater and that anyone can do anything with hard work. He did say to me the other day though he wanted to keep practising so that he can still do all the stuff he used to and before he reaches the point of no return - although at 27 I think he is way off that point. He doesn't let me use the 'I'm not a natural skater' or 'I struggle with coordinating arms and feet at the same time' as an excuse ever - as you say - that is what the coach is there to correct.

Its easy for a coach to say you are too old and just give up trying to improve you- its harder for them to try and improve you - just because it usually takes that little bit longer - and needs more explanation. Just my opinion…..

I have to say it... you obvioiusly haven't seen this when you say you lose flexibility with age...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wli0VjOmabU

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AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

This is a very interesting discussion. Kateskate, from watching your videos & knowing how long you've been skating, there's definitely at least *some* natural skater in you!!! Although I totally believe & understand the hard work you've put in to do what you're doing.

I think about this a lot myself because of what my goals are vs. what my age is. I just turned 38+1 (can't actually say it yet). My goal is to get my gold dances, standard track, and also my senior free dance. And my feeling is I have to do it NOW because I don't know how long my body will hold up. I have definitely felt in the last couple of years how I can't just go out & skate anymore without a good warmup. I've definitely made progress, but it's slowed (I think mostly due to the level I've gotten to), and I feel like I'm in this race against time, but the only thing I can do is keep working hard--some things just don't come overnight no matter how hard you work (think being comfortable w/ fast bracket/3/brackets, yikes).....and whether it's because I'm an adult, or really pushing the upper edges of my ability, it has definitely slowed. I worry sometimes that time will win out!

I also have a student who's in her 70's (she refuses to tell me her actual age ), who started skating in her 60's. And has largely no natural feel for it. But she practices hard and she has made good progress over the few years I've been teaching her. Now---for HER, good progress means she can do very nice fwd crossovers, with no toe pushes. She can do stroking with good technique, forward & backward. She can do forward edge rolls. She can do back crossovers with some flow. We're just starting to work on mohawks. She has the most positive attitude of anyone I've met, but she will certainly never be a fast skater who has lots of tricks. But she loves her skating and I'm so proud of her. I wish all my students were like her!

Casey you are right. I see and hear from the other adults in my rink, "I can't do xxx" and they prove themselves right. We have one woman who has been in LTS for 4 years and is still working on stroking and 3-turns and has not progressed above them. Mainly it is fear and lack of confidence holding them back. You do reach a point where you have to "go for it" but that does not mean going-for-broke! It's just a step of confidence to take it away from the wall, or jump off that toepick, and finally believe in yourself. We can be our own worst enemies as far as limitations go. I try not to be negative anymore and I've stopped saying "I'll never get this" so instead I say "I'm frustrated" or "this is hard." And it helps to have a coach (and friends) that inspire confidence in you and can think out of the box as far as teaching technique (mine is good at that, when one thing doesn't work, she tries something else).

ETA: I was going through a period when I had "do-it-now-itis" because I was feeling my skating biological clock ticking away....I was afraid if I didn't hurry and test boom-boom-boom and do this, that, or the other thing, time would pass me by and I'd never get the chance again (I have health problems and sometimes I freak out because they can change your whole perspective on life in general). I've calmed down a bit from this. I'm still driven but I've become focused and driven to do certain things in a more timely manner. I will get done what I can get done and I don't think anyone can fault me for not having done any less.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

There's a difference between caution and can't.

I am saying that as adults we tend to have more caution than if we were 9 years old. I know I do and I have very limited fear on the ice. I think through my approach to elements now in a way I never did as a kid and it really helps because I know I can't spend two hours doing jump after jump after jump like I did when I was 15 because I'll pay for it the next day.

My coach doesn't treat me as if I'm an adult. She works me very hard, doesn't take "can't" for an answer when we are working on an element, and fully expects me to be able to land a double axel some day (I set that as a goal when we first started working together as a pie-in-the-sky goal, but I am steadily progressing to it) along with passing Senior moves and possibly my Senior FS. That being said, when we are working on a new jump, she DOES advocate caution (slow down!) and spend a lot of time on the mechanics that she might not do with a kid.

Rusty Blades: I adore that you feel defensive about protecting the special relationship you have with your coach and that you took her feedback as it was meant. As I have posted about the importance of a good relationship with a coach, know that I am envious!

I think this thread has more been a reflection of each person's experience rather than a discussion about the appropriateness of your specific coach. You have obviously chosen well. Further, it sounds like you have done well in being assertive with your coach and getting her on board with your major competiton goals! You raaaawwwk!

Skate@Delaware: What a great way to change some self talk. My coach has teased me the last several sessions reminding me that I told her I could never do edges, I would never jump, I would never spin and in the last lesson I said I just can't do the salchow! I will adopt your statement of "this is hard" instead. When she reminded me of my previous statements I told her I could not do a salchow.....YET! giggle.

Phoenix: Very cool that you are teaching someone at that age. I had had thoughts that I might learn all these skating skills and have such a limited time to be able to enjoy them!

Thank you Dallas! We have a great "balanced" relationship - I try to go a zillion miles an hour and she tries to make sure I don't crash and burn! I don't accept "can't - it isn't an excuse/reason I am inclined to use. When I get frustrated, her comments are more along the lines of "Don't be so hard on yourself." In the 9 months since I started skating I have cracked a rib, twisted my right knee, and presently skate on a sprained ankle but I wont back off - I don't need to be "pushed" but to be held back to a sane pace! She does that well (and gently).

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

I'm perfectly willing to admit that my enormous pink elephant is FEAR.

I have all of the goods to be a great skater -- balance, flexibility, musicality, work ethic and desire. And ONE bad factor: FEAR.

I danced seriously as a kid (was in a semi-professional ballet company). I have more body awareness and knowledge in my pinky toe than most people who get on the ice (this isn't me saying this -- my coach tells me this). I can do axels off ice, but try the stinkin' waltz jump on the ice -- no way!

She says my timing is great, my placement over my blades is right, and my knowledge of technique is right on -- BUT I just need to get out of my darn head. This is a regular topic of discussion for us because there's no reason I can't be doing everything right -- just that I WON'T do it. It's frustrating to no end. I know that one day, somthing will click and I will improve so rapidly that you won't recognize me from week to week. I just need to get to that point, grrrr!!!!

My suggestion would be to pad yourself up to the gills, & go out & have a splat fest!! Seriously--eliminate the fear of it hurting when you fall, and then go out & intentionally lower yourself down & fall & slide. Once that's not scary, do a sit spin (I'm assuming you can spin), & go down until you fall.

And then as you get bolder & start to try more things, like your waltz jump, keep the pads on. I think in your case, it may be the extra help you need to push you past this point where you're stuck.

Repetition of the "scary thing" actually happening, with no ill effects, is the way to eliminate fear in the human psyche.

That's exactly what I did when "fear" was holding me back in backwards. I was afraid of going down on my tailbone so I made a butt pad. No fear anymore - it's like landing on a pillow

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

And of course, there are those with coaches that would NOT allow us to wear pads on a normal basis and face falling and hurting ourselves anyway!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

There's also a big difference between can't and won't. I'm not going to debate the physical limitations, because I think everyone's done a great job of that so far.

However, the MENTAL portion of it is what holds most skaters back. I have three students who whine "I caaaaaan't do that!" to pretty much anything. These are pre-teens - the adults just think it, the kids think out loud. LOL

This summer, one of the bigger chicks went to a summer camp that had skating and other activities. When I challenge her in a lesson, I just say "Were you the one spinning around up on the "silks" this summer? You CAN do this, then - just say you'll try." She's working on a beautiful split jump now.

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Ya know, I just have to disagree with this. Most people can go farther than they think, but everyone has limitations. I'm all for a positive attitude, but it is not a true statement that anybody can do anything.

Well, there is a difference between can't and won't, I can't do something at this moment doesn't mean it will never occur. I often say I can't, but I never say I won't...

I think a lot of determination is a given in skating and while I am only in my mid 40's I am not built like a skater, it has not come easily to me but I work very hard at it and my coach doesn't treat me like an adult, she treats me like someone who wants to learn and grow at the sport.

If you think you can't you usually won't so, that's all there is to that but as a side note you should be realistic in your expectations. I'd like all my dances standard track, finish Sr. moves and I'd be happy with my Nov FS, might also shot for some of the Free Dances since I got my Juv last year.

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Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

I wish I could be all sunshine and rainbows, "always dream!" about my own chances at someday landing an axel or double, but I have to be realistic about things at the age of 37. I won't ever give up on making an axel or double toe a goal, but I also realize I have time against me. I also have other goals that take precedent - career, family, makin' babies, continuing to trial and move up the judging ladder.

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Champagne in 2005, 2008, 2009 - who's next out of the pre-bronze club...?

Wang chung!

You beat me to it. I can remember feeling that way, way back when! Look around and you will see an amazing variation of body types, some of which are going to be good at certain things, and others of which will never be able to achieve some of those things. Don't leave out people with non-typical bodies. We haven't even talked about brains yet, but it's pretty clear that some brains are capable of more than others. We are not all Einsteins.


AW1
Flexibility is variable, as is everything else about individual members of a species. Some people are more naturally flexible than others and retain it longer, even into old age like the 80 yr old woman I wish I hadn't seen (sorry, the whole vid turned me off). Others have to struggle from the start. I've seen the difference in my two girls. One was made of rubber and the other was simply not so flexible. I'm talking about toddlers here! The difference was visible.

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Why is it that many people here seem to equate being treated "like an adult" by a coach to be something horrid? Why is it assumed that this is bad? Perhaps it's a bad wording choice. What exactly do you people mean? Does being treated like an adult mean that you're not pushed? Not encouraged to be the best skater you can be? Not given the same time and attention as the younger students? If that's the case, you're not being treated "like an adult;" you're simply the recipient of bad coaching or a bad attitude.

To me, being treated "like an adult" on the ice means that my coach works within my physical limitations (knees & back, for example) and my time restrictions while giving me focused, professional coaching. It means having my coach acknowledge that I learn differently from her 10 year olds and that she uses that knowledge to help me become the best skater I can be.

I don't want to be the recipient of a bad coaching attitude. I do want to be treated "like an adult" by my coach.

I agree! The reason most people lose flexibility with age is because they stop doing the things that kept them flexible when they were younger. I was never able to do the splits when I was a kid or a teenager; the only time I've ever done a complete split in my life was at age 29, while stretching out after several hours of skating. But yesterday--at 41--I came the closest I've ever come to repeating it (my crotch was about 2-3 inches off the floor) and I managed to go down just as far with my left leg in front. That's the side that is so tight in the upper hamstring and glute that I've been going to physical therapy for it.

I don't think age is necessarily a problem when it comes to athleticism or flexibility - there's a chap at our rink in his late 60's who does amazing shoot the jumps and leaps around the rink without a care in the world.

We adult skaters have it harder than kids; for a start most of us are taller and have a higher centre of gravity...and further to fall. We don't bounce as much as kids, and even those with more of a 'dare' gene in them have to be more cautious.

That does not mean that there are no 'natural' adult skaters; watching some of the vids on here such as Kateskate's and Doubletoe proves that in my book, as did watching the competition yesterday.

IMHO to be a good skater at any age it's perhaps 5% natural talent...and 95% hard work.

S xxx (who can't jump high, can't do a shoot the duck but can spin 10 times better than she did as a kid!)

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

I really think the sky is the limit, we all have our problems, but that just means you have to work harder, and we all have good points too!

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starting at 28

Isn't so much of it physics anyway, and working with that?

I'm about to turn 39 and somehow I'm skating better than I ever have in my life (thanks to a better attitude after 2 months off ice). I'm noticing more and more how the placement of my shoulderblades make a huge difference, and I'm a zillion times better skater now than I was when I was in my mid 20s. It seems like no matter what your body size is you should be able to work with physics and get that jump or spin...and the only limit to speed is fear...and with age comes fear...so it seems that fear is the problem and not age.

I think.

Anyway I skate with a guy who is 46 and has the lowest sit spin I have ever seen, I have no doubt he'll be doing that spin for years to come! And his jumps are huge. I always tell him with him around I have no excuse not to progress

I'm somewhere in the middle on this.

I have a job. I have a husband and I will soon have children. I have bills to pay. I have stuff to do. I can't spend two hours per day in the rink.

However, I'm a hard worker, I pay attention to my coach and I practice regularly. No, I'm not making crazy fast progress, but I am a much better skater than I was at this time last year. I was a better skater last year than I was when I got my first post college lessons. And I became a better skater in college than I had been in my high school days.

My moves coach puts it to me like this....."you make steady, incremental progress."

And that's all I want. I want to keep getting better, bit by bit. I'm no great talent and I don't have the time or money to train more than three days per week with an hour of lessons. But it's enough. It's enough for that bit by bit progress.

That makes me very happy.

On the other hand, you have to WANT success. Within each individuals limitations, they have to WANT to get done what they can. I have to WANT to land my axel. I'm starting to understand that. And sure enough, I'm starting to get closer. I'm starting to remember what happens while I'm in the air. I'm starting to be willing to force myself to land on one foot, no matter what happens.

So WANTING is important. Drive is part of the picture, along with realistic expectations.

YIKES!!! Would someone please warned me to watch this video at home and not at work??? That's some outfit the dance team's got there!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I think that is absolutely true. If a fairly athletic adult started skating at 35 and a 9-year old started skating at the same time, provided we each practiced only 6 hours per week and had the same fear level, I think the progress would be similar. Unfortunately, the other difference is that these kids are practicing 15 hours a week and our bodies can no longer handle the same number of hours at the same intensity. That makes it harder to make the same progress, even without the fear.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics