Coming from you dbny.... ROFLMAO!!! (I just have this mental image of you saying that and pointing your finger at everyone!!! Too funny!!! Tee hee hee... )

THANK YOU!!! That's the point I was trying to make!!!

Yup! That's the point!!! All judges are looking for different thing and they all have different expectations of what's considered passing. It's NOT universal...

The other thing that's even more important to think about is... just b/c you've done well enough on your test to pass, does NOT mean that you're ready to work on the next set of skills. Keep in mind all those lower level moves are BUILDING BLOCKS which becomes the high level moves tests that you test later on. So no, just b/c I've passed my Bronze Moves test does NOT exempt me from NOT practicing those skills. (The Bronze moves test elements are now my WARMUP!!!) If anything, it just means I have MORE stuff to work on now, actually! LOL!!! (Which means I better find more time to skate! DOH!!! )

Yeah, I agree on that!!! And furthermore, I'll add that a competition does not necessary determine who's the "best skater." It's the best skater at that particular moment! If you have an off night, or if you're injured or sick with bad sushi, or a blade breaks in the middle of a competition (sound familiar, renatele? ) that would be enough to throw someone off that top spot.

I've stopped comparing myself against anyone a while ago! It drove me up the wall when I did... and didn't bring anything for me except anxiety attacks and a sense of insecurity! Once I started focus on my homework and nothing else, things starting clicking for me!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

...and to add to that, even that's not necessarily conclusive. As with testing, it's largely down to the judges' likes and dislikes: e.g. some prefer easy but well executed elements whereas others give points for attempting more difficult stuff even if they don't quite come off. Some seem to overlook elements completely and just go for the general 'look' of the skater.

S xxx

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

AHHHHH, and keeping the quote above in mind, those same judges that are judging your competitions are gonna bring THEIR expectations along on the TEST SESSION too!!! Each of the judges' expectations are different... and you can either pass or miss by 0.3 depending on the judge. (See why I think it's subjective now???)

I have a feeling that this document should have NEVER came out!!! (Or at least be revised and just list what the test standard is and take out the adult section?) I mean, GEEZ! Pretty much all the comments about the Bronze Moves tests on my test forms were straight from the "Test Standard" section, NOT the "Adult" section!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

As dbny pointed out, standards are NOT uniform in EITHER the adult track or the standard track. And as another pointed out, there is no way to make uniform standards in a subjectively judged sport.

So either love it and enjoy it or leave it, IMO.

That was not my experience. I took gold moves in the same block as kids taking senior moves and they were brutal. Because these are the last moves in the adult track they judge them with very little room to mess up. I took int. moves the next month and actually found that they were a little easier on me. I passed both in the first try but Gold moves were much more nerve racking for me. By the way two of the judges were the same judges for both on those test so I did not have that discrepancy.

Thanks dbny for backing me up.

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

This is what I keep hearing in my neck of the woods. Depending on where you are going for your test, they have different "standards" of what is passing. It's enough to drive you crazy! We have kids trying to figure out the best place to test for the different levels. For myself, I have heard "go here but not there" referencing the different rinks, some not so adult-friendly. Not that it matters, as my coach is very strict and precise. She only has one standard and that is the "right way."

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

That's the head of the nail there, dbny.

You can travel somewhere easier and pass some test, but what does it really matter if you come in last place at every competition you go to at the level you have passed? I guess you can go around saying, "I'm an _____ level skater" but really, that's not going to buy much respect if anybody you tell has seen you skate and you don't deserve it.

On the other end of the spectrum, the problem is people who sandbag. But who cares if they keep you from your #1 spot in XYZ competition - just go out there and skate your best and feel accomplished and have fun doing it. If anybody appreciates your skating, you have succeeded, even if it's only yourself.

Bottom line though, you can't let yourself feel downtrodden because somebody else is better or pretends to be better or anything else. Just have to stay focused on yourself, and if you're determined, you can and will be undeniably better than whomever it is you might otherwise be upset about. Even the best in the world have weak points, and there's always room for improvements. Just be happy about what you have accomplished, and of the way you've gone about it.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

HERE HERE! I guess I should have read your reply before posting my last one. You've said it much more eloquently.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Wow, I just realized how much this thread has strayed from it's original topic.

But it is rather indicative of the greater, real problem.

There are basically two types of attitudes an adult skater may have:

Post-Teen Angsty Complainer

• "I'm too old to accomplish anything"
• "I have physical limitations, so why bother trying?"
• "Sally cheated on her test, that's the only reason she's ahead of me."
• "Waaaaaaah it's somebody else's fault that I had a bad day!"
• "I hope she gets what's coming to her...she deserves worse!"
• "Bob shows off and rubs it in my face and then tries to say he's just skating and means no offense. He's such a liar..."
• "Life isn't fair. Skating isn't fair. Maybe I can make other people feel the same..."

Grown-Up Enough To Be Mature, But Still Knows How To Have Fun

• "I don't let my age hold me back!"
• "Joanne's really good, I hope to get that good!"
• "Today I was off...but there's always tomorrow!"
• "Sometimes I feel jealous of better skaters, but then I remind myself that I can be all of that and more."
• "I have physical limitations, but I fight back, and seek out alternate methods to get ahead"
• "Joanne is totally sandbagging. Oh well, no reason no hold a grudge. When I win, I will be able to say that I have so it honorably."
• "Some people are such whiners! *rolls eyes* I wish they could just be happy!"
• "I love skating! It makes life worth living. Maybe I can make other people feel the same!"

Edited to add: Most of us go through the first attitude at some point, I know I did...it's a hard trap to avoid. The trick is getting past it. But we can all evolve if we want to.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Ooh, that's really nice to hear! I took my Gold MIF almost a year ago and have been trying to get ready for the Intermediate MIF test. I know the passing standard is higher so I've been assuming I need to perform them better than I did on my Gold test. Then again, every set of judges could be different, too. . .

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Ummm... how about the case where you specifically move up JUST to qualify to go to AN, huh??? And you DO deserve it if you passed those tests!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I finally found a similar document for standard track!!

http://kc.sk8rland.com/docs/usfsa/MIFSchoolManual.pdf

Interestingly, it also contains adult notes.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

I think if you passed with all three judges in your Gold Moves you should do well on Intermediates. The only comment they made was that they want you to look like you "own the ice" in both Gold and Intermediate moves. I am not sure what they meant by that but I assume that want you to reek with confidence. I think the reason Gold Moves freaked me out is that I was on warm up ice with 16 year olds doing Senior moves going up and down the ice at break neck speed and I just got psyched out by that, All that said many adults have not passed Gold moves in their first try but do pass Intermediates in their first try

This is true for kids as well as adults. There are some people who just aren't "built right" for the sport, no matter how much they love it. That doesn't mean they shouldn't skate but they (and I'm one of them!) have to be realistic about what their bodies will allow. I know for a fact that my body is doing more than I expected it to ("layback") but there are some things that no amount of stretching and training will allow me to do (spread eagles - I can turn in but not out). It doesn't mean I stop trying. I just do ask much as my body will allow and I don't sweat the stuff it won't. (Okay, maybe I could curse my parents for not giving me enough fast-twitch muscle-fiber genes but, really, what's the point in that?)

As for the "fun" issue, personally I think that if you're not having fun at skating, you should find something else to do. Skating is too expensive and too demanding to pursue regularly if the most you get from it is frustration. And for most adults, unless we're earning a paycheck from coaching, skating is just a "hobby"- something we do for recreation or exercise or stress relief. No matter what we do on the ice, we still have jobs and families and life tasks that have to be faced when we take our skates off. It's a wise coach - and skater - who remembers that and takes it into consideration.

One thing I've observed in my now-two-and-a-half decades of adult skating - the skating-obsessed people (the ones who spend or seem to spend every waking moment skating or thinking about skating or training to skate or planning their entire lives around skating generally aren't that much fun to hang out with. Even the elite skaters I know have hobbies and things they do besides skating. A balance point is more than just a spot on your blade. I'd much rather hang around the bar after Mountain Cup and talk about jobs and families and hometowns than spend the time being "advised" (although it feels like "lectured") about nutrician and how with the "right" combination of vitamins and yoga I, too, can do triple axels.

As I get older, I find there are more things that my joints and muscles complain about doing and occasionally refuse to do at all. It takes me way longer than the kids to learn the same skill (heck, it takes me way longer than most adults to learn the same thing!). Am I a typical adult skater? Probably not. But I don't think there is "typical" adult. We're all unique with individual strengths and weaknesses and there are no sbsolutes. I do what I can do and if I'm happy with that, that's fine.

LOL. Casey!! That is so right on!!

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Keep Evolving. "From this moment forward, every voice that told you - You Can't - , has been silenced." - Freedom Writers

Oh, that's very encouraging, thanks! Yes, I passed my Gold MIF by all 3 judges and on the first try, but it took every ounce of concentration I had, since they really weren't all that consistent yet, LOL! The back power 3's can be really tricky, though!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Lots of opinions here.....

I do believe that an adult can skate with the power of an 11 year old, and an 11 year old beginner can look like an adult beginner. The power (very different from speed, anyone can go out there and go fast) is learned, just as in any other skill. Since it is a skill, everyone will or won't learn it at a different rate. Also, it's something that comes with time and experience and comfort level on the ice. These things can not be rushed or subtitiuted for, it's a process and simply takes time. You work on it and work on it, and it clicks. I remember exactly when it clicked for me, and it was like advancing a mosterous step.

Just a thought on all the "advice".
I do skate for the fun of it and when it's not fun, I don't skate. I'm very serious at it, and always have been. I think we also have to look at where we are in our respective skating "careers". Once when I was frustrated over a less than great practice, my coach wisely said "you can't be perfect all the time". Likewise we can't be expected to maintain the same levels of excitement and intensity all the time. I say this because I think this is what I've been seeing here on the boards lately. Lots of people in different stages of their skating lives giving lots of advice based on a variety of intensity and experience levels - real, wishful or imagined. I see the excitement/frustration from the beginners, the "How cool is this!" or "listen to me and I will tell you all you need to know" from those competing and starting to medal, and "I'm burnt out" or "enjoy" from the seasoned among us. And some things just can't be told, but must be experienced - like forgetting to take off your guards and getting on the ice. This too is a process.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

"Fun" is highly overated. I skate when it is fun, and I also skate when it's not fun. If I stopped skating when it wasn't fun, I'd hardly make any progress at all.

Flo, that is so well put. Thanks for posting that.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

This is a perfect illustration of how everyone skates for different reasons. Some people find that the satisfaction of achievement outweighs any difficulty encountered during the process, while others are all about how enjoyable the time is that they are spending on it. I think the problems come up when one type just doesn't understand why the other type doesn't do the "logical" thing. For example, when an achiever type complains about the difficulty she's experiencing and makes it sound like she's absolutely miserable, an enjoyment type--who can't understand why anyone would want to be miserable--suggests she just quit . . . and the achiever type is shocked LOL!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

And with this in mind... quoting Rodney King "People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?" LOL!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I guess this just points out another difference for us all to be aware of. Some can skate "just for fun" AND make "progress". I'm ok with my rate of progression - if I/you count progress by by the friends I've made skating - bunches! and by the experiences themselves! Or even if you count progress by medals - 9 National, 1 international. Again, I'm at a different stage, and I understand my approach may be of little help to someone who just wants that stupid frustrating jump they've been working on to finally appear!

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

ROFL!

Whadya think guys...is this thread going to be even longer than that 'LTS kids on freestyle sessions' one a couple of months back lol...?!?

S xxx

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

It's already there!!! (It was eight pages there and we're on our NINTH page!!! LOL!!! )