Hi all,

Im having some really horrible problems with my Lutz. I've been skating for 2 and a half years and can land up to a double salchow ( including the WALLEY ) without any problems but as soon as the Lutz arrives in my program-Its just-TERRIBLE.

I really don't understand it, I mean, the walley is a ton times harder then the lutz but still I can't do it.
Everytime i go into a lutz i get my foot ready to pick in but I wait too long and then my edge goes off into an inside instead of an outside & it looks really ugly.
At a recent skating seminar I went too, a coach told me to "cross my foot" over before i jump so I can get on a perfect outside edge. Ive seen skaters that are doing triples try this but I've never heard about it on a single.

Do you think its a good idea for me to try this or not?

AND HOPEFULLY, some of you wise owls out there will have some advice for me because im literally going insane.!

Im seriously thinking about surrendering

Thanks.

The lutz is a funny jump. When I land it, it feels easy but I do have problems with it every now and then - more mental than anything else. I've never had a problem with "flutzing", ie dropping to an inside edge before take-off, but my biggest problem is that I'm not quick enough off the toe, though it is speeding up somewhat now. Earlier this year my coach changed the way I went into the lutz because like you, I was sitting on that back edge too long. She had me cross over the opposite foot (left over right) just before take-off. It has helped to speed things up, and once I got used to doing it this way I couldn't go back and do it without that cross over. Try it. There are others at my rink who go into their lutz in this way.

Nicki

My coach told me that the best way to do the lutz is to attack it. More often than not you're going to nail it - but when you hestiate, ride that edge too long, etc. ...that's when you have problems.

I gave up worrying about falling and I just went and attacked it and last I left my lutz it was awesome...

It's been a month since I last skated though so who knows what it looks like now

I think you meant a "perfect OUTSIDE edge", right?

Have someone make a video of you doing a few lutzes. I think you'll notice that your shoulders and upper body aren't rotated correctly before you pick in. That's probably why you're waiting so long and then losing the outside edge.

Does anyone still use the "lutz arms?" (I teach it that way, but it's old-fashioned.) That's where you strike the outside edge then draw the power arm from the front to the back to get into the check position. Prevents you from dropping to the inside edge, theoretically.

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My lutz has always been a horrible jump. Never felt right. Recently, my coach changed my entry to the mohawk, cross over, pick method and now it is a much more secure, easy jump.

I will warn you, though. When I first tried it I couldn't even do half-lutzes correctly with the new take-off. It took me a few weeks to get used to it, both physically and mentally.

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I think that's how Michelle Kwan usually enters her lutz (well, 3lutz), too?

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I struggled with lutzes, I used to ride that edge almost all the way to the barrier before taking off.

When I examined my tracings, every time it had switched to an inside edge in the last 4 inches before take off. Funniest thing was, when I checked the tracings on my flip, that always switched to an outside. So I was flutzing my lutzes and llipping my flips! Go figure.

Karen

Absolutely! I have no problems getting off the toe with the flip, but when it comes to the Lutz, it's like that jump is in slow motion. Very bizarre. I have a long take off edge (I used to do footwork etc but don't bother so much these days), toe goes in slow and usually takes a massive chunk out of the ice, and it's the only jump where I have to unwrap my leg after I land. All my other jumps are much more open and I don't wrap the leg as much.

Bane of my existance. Maybe it's because so often there's not enough room to do Lutzes, and I don't practice it as much as loops (my favourite compact jump) or flips.

LOL yes. I spent a lot of time on this when I was learning.

Absolutely! Do the crossover thing! Also, I should warn you that the deeper you try to go on an outside edge from the regular back crossover setup, the more you will over-compensate by going onto an inside edge when you reach back to pick! So when you've done the lutz from the crossover entrance and decide to go back to the other entrance, try to keep your edge on a diagonal, almost a flat. That way you won't turn over to an inside edge when you pick. Good luck! Oh, and can I borrow your walley?

I totally agree. The lutz is the hardest jump to practice when the ice is busy. I often have a big set up into it and then arrive in the corner just as someone else does so end up abandoning it altogether. I find it so hard to land if there is anyone vaguely nearby so if there are a few people on the ice I end up not doing it. I think this is one of the reasons I struggled with it - I could always do a loop or a flip, regardless of how busy the ice was, but my lutz only got practiced on quiet days.

Nicki

So what would happen if you pretended to yourself you were going to do a flip when you were going to do a lutz, and vice versa? And wrote them down the "wrong way round" on your elements sheet..... (mind you, one friend wrote down that she was going to do a loop, a flip and a lutz, I don't know in what order - and found, to her horror, that she was credited with three loop jumps!).

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I've tried that one Annabel, agreed it makes perfect sense but it doesnt work with me personally, but that could be just me.

I love lutzes. I think of them as a power jump. I really like the long edge entrance into the jump, and this was the standard prior to all the emphasis on footwork into a jump. It was also very pretty to watch.

Something I do that helps is to set up the edge, look back over the right shoulder (for small children) bringing the shoulder back. Then, leaving arms and shoulder back turn my head forward, then sink in the knee and pop!

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Well I am no expert but I do have a pretty good lutz. Make sure to bend the knee of the jumping leg and think of reaching back with the free(pick) leg. keep the toe "open" of the pick foot and bring the "scissors" together as you vault.

The common problems I see in flutzes:
Free leg comes up too high pulling body over onto inside edge.
Right Hip collapses along with "scooping" right arm just before jumping causing loss of edge.

As I learned mine, I would skate the approach...tap in...no revolution...and land on landing foot....It helped me...

Good Luck
I love the Lutz

esp. Lutz,half loop,flip combo! That is the shizzle!

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Well, I tried it tonight with the crossover entrance and it was much easier and it was actually a POP!, and it actually jumped unlike normal.
I was even commented on by one of the coaches as having a pretty nice lutz/ loop combo.

Im SO HAPPY. I knew I could do the jump but it was just the take-off that was the problem. Im going to get my coach to look at it on my next session just to make sure its done proper but I can't even say how thankful I am to everyone on here for there advice.

Thanks & good luck with your lutzes ( hopefully it won't take you as long as me! )

That's great! I'm just sorry you didn't try it earlier and save yourself some grief, LOL!

That's great news Justine

Nicki

Well done Justine, I'm sooo jealous. Just to clarify, what do you mean by a cross over entrance do you mean backward left over right and then jump or what exactly, can anyone break it down a bit more please so I can try?

Thanks
Grace

Someone had a thread going about "what's the last thing you do before leaving the ice?" My friends and I would always wait until the end of the session to practice lutzes because there were fewer people on the ice. Once "Clear the Ice!" was announced, that was our cue for each of us to do a lutz, circle around, do it again, and repeat. It was like a bizarre ritual of five people circling and doing these jumps (with the "up and over" lutz arms) over and over. Each person "spotted" the next to make sure no one else came through and cut us off. The guards loved it because it scared off the people who didn't want to get off the ice.

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LOL! I can't believe the morning I had. I did an hour of patch ice followed by an hour and a half of session. The second half hour of patch I had a lesson but the first half I had the rink all to myself and yet I didn't do a single lutz. I have to admit I'm afraid to try anything too challenging when I'm there on my own in case I splat and nobody notices! Anyway I decided to try some lutzes after my lesson since my lutz in my programme landed on my backside, and by now it was quite busy with public skaters. I had to judge when to go between the people and spent the time running between opposite corners snatching lutz-loops when I could. I did land some that felt really nice though!

Nicki

There are different ways to do the L/R back crossover entrance, but the most popular one seems to be this:

- RFI mohawk (coming out on LBI edge),
- one Right over Left back crossover
- Left over Right back crossover
- Pick and jump

I like to do mine from a LFI mohawk, L/R back crossover, just because it's quicker.

Thanks Double Toe for going into detail for me, I am off for a week but will try it when I am back and let you know how I get on.

Cheers
Grace

Samba - Just check out the lutz method of most triple lutzes on senior ladies to get the idea. Michelle, Sasha (although she still flutzes even with the mohawk-cross), Irina sometimes, all do this entry.

Indeed, I've just been at the British Championships today and at least one of the Senior Ladies here did exactly that entry, I noticed it and thought of this discussion.

But now I come to try to describe it, I'm lost.... I know what I think she did, but I could be wrong....

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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!