quoting from Rusty Blades aka Dianne:

"My coach and I had a little heart-to-heart earlier this week because I was struggling with forward Mohawks and getting into a funk about how long it is taking to re-learn the basics. She said, "You will never be the skater you were 36 years ago, you know that?" I hung my head and said, "Yes, but I don't have to accept it without a struggle."

This has been bugging me all weekend.

I realised that what bugged me is that I hate people placing limitations on me in whatever my endeavours. I know for sure that there are some things I do better now than I did 20+ years ago. Mohawks for one thing, and even though my loop is really still a work in progress, it is most certainly better than the consistent but truly awful little hop I did all those years ago. I reckon even my sit spin could be better than back then.

Adult learners or refreshers at any undertaking will have physical limitations (which are extremely frustrating) and fears to overcome, yet we can also be far better at analysing a skill and applying different strategies to overcoming limitations.

So while Dianne's coach may be right in terms of sheer physical achievement, I do not believe that it necessarily means we cannot be in some ways better than when we were younger.

I too struggle with having to re-learn basics, and my ever-patient coach is continually trying to get me to focus on edges and entries, so I share Dianne's frustrations and wonder whether I will ever get back to where I was.

I think if my coach started putting those sort of limiting statements on me I would question that coach's commitment to taking me as far as I am able to go. I think I and my body will know when to say "that's as far as I go".

What do other older skaters think?

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

I think the coach shouldn't say things like that, because each person is different.....different physical/mental strength and abilities.

If you're enthusiastic and have a huge desire to learn things, then by all means....just have fun, take your time...as much time as you want really, and then just see how many things you can do. Because there's no way that you're going to learn nothing. That's for sure. So, I wouldn't even worry about what that coach said. It's not always true about what they said - assuming they meant that you won't be able to do certain things. On the other hand, your coach might mean that your muscles/tendons have not been worked for a long time, then maybe they just meant that only....that is, you'll probably have to take time to work-out and get back some flexibility. Maybe that's all the coach meant.

It all depends on your own abilities and time you are spending on the ice.Listen to your body .I know what I say because I have this odd situation I'm not a child anymore but,as I've started in my teens, I'm quite fearless (even when I fall sometimes ).And I know what you feel - I hate when people say I probably won't have any triples , but I know it is possible( my coach thinks so too), as I already land my doubles .

I don't mind when my coach or others remind me that my expectations need a reality check at times. I started at age 44 with my only childhood experience being a handful of group intro to ice skating lessons and mostly frozen over cranberry bogs!

I think part of my attraction to skating at this later chapter of life deals with the attraction of exploring the boundaries of my abilities. I do get frustrated at times but also have such joy when I am able to get something and prove that it was not impossible...even for me.

The processing with my coach and with others has mostly been positive. I have felt validated in my fears that sometimes surface in a jump expectation or a recognition of my limited grace or age appropriate flexibility. Mostly people have been quite complimentary in their framing of my age.

I tend to agree that there is much to a self fulfilling prophecy and self talk is important. Adult ability to truly evaluate the input from others also helps. It can be used as data to create self doubt or can be used as data to validate owning your own body and expectation! giggle.

Limiting yourself to a more negative version of what is being said is the true enemy IMHO.

Good luck to you!

Well, age does have it's limitations but then again, you can do anything so long as you have unmitigated tenacity. I have fought to become the skater I am and I get tired of people saying that my skating as a child given me an edge, as an adult. I only skated for 4 years (14-18) as a child yes I had an axel and some decent cheated doubles (toe). I passed my Intermediate FS as an adult along with my Intermediate and Novice moves in my early 40's.

I believe that I have the skills, and I will continue to believe that, I am starting over again after hip surgery this summer and while it is going to take me longer than I thought I will get back to where I was and then continue onward, when I have my second hip surgery I will do the same. It justs take time and patience, I have neither...but I am working on it.


That being said, almost everyday I see a lovely 82 year-old woman skate at my rink, she solid thru lutz and while she says age has it's disadvantages, she still enjoys the sport. She competes every year at AN's and does well...I only hope to make it past 50.

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Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

I Believe on how bad you want it.. At My rink there are these 2 ice dancers that are in there 60's still doing there dances when they where competing when they where at 40. They have told me of stories of when they where having lessons with their coaches and stuff.

End of the day its how bad you want it. And how bad you want to work for it.

I don't think the coach was putting limitations on her student. As I approach 60, it has become painfully aware that when Dianne's coach said that, she was very simply stating the truth. Did any of you see Torvill and Dean on the UK skating with the stars show? They were still marvellous, but were absolutely not the skaters they had been. This is the nature of life. As we get older, we lose some flexibility, we heal more slowly, we injure more easily, our reflexes slow down, and we have greater perspective. If you are not yet 50, you may not have the perspective and the experience to understand what it all means in terms of athletic endeavor.

When I started figure skating about 6 years ago, of course I hoped to regain the agility, speed, and proficiency that I had on roller skates as a kid. Maybe someone else could have done that, but not me in my body. That doesn't mean that I don't keep trying, but it does mean that I am not going to pine away for something that just can't be. I frequently have dreams that I am flying across the ice the same way I used to fly across the floor at the roller rink, and those dreams are wonderful. Maybe what brought me home to reality was my broken wrist in 2001. It was the third time I had broken my right arm, but was nothing like the first two, which were at 5 and 15 years. My injuries then, except for time spent in a cast, were basically inconsequential. Cast came off, arm was like new. Not so the last time, I was shocked to discover. When you are 5 or 15, a broken arm is not such a big deal, but when you are in your 50's you have a job you must do, cars to drive, other people to take care of, and maybe years until you are back to normal, if ever. Believe me, that puts a crimp in your fearlessness on the ice.

My former coach, who didn't have a clue about any of that, used to laugh if I said anything about such limitations. Well, excuse me, but please don't jolly me along. Recognize the fact of age and it's limitations, and work with that, because that's what we've got. I think I would have appreciated Dianne's coach's comment.

coskater64, you have no idea what a very big difference there can be between learning something in your 40's and learning something in your 50's or 60's. Unmitigated tenacity, like talent, can only go so far.

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I know I am a "younger" adult (only in my 30's who returned in her late 20's), but I will say that I am definitely a BETTER skater now than when I was 15. I work harder, I understand what I am trying to do, I am more focused, I don't fling and pray anymore, and I actually have some consistent doubles that I never had. I've also passed my Intermediate moves as an adult and I am considering going back to pass that dang 2nd figure that tripped me up as a kid since I understand what was wrong with it then.

I will admit though, that I have some hesitation on some elements that I didn't have when I was younger (darn spirals!), and I don't go flying headlong into new elements at top speed because I fear injury doing it that way. I think this is what Dianne's coach was getting at - that hesitation you get from the rational part of your brain!!

Wow I can not believe your coach said that! How about another coach. I do not believe age is a limitation. I skated as a child probably at a Juv. level when I stopped. I started skating two years ago when we moved to an area that had a rink. Last year i decided to start testing again.As a kid i did figures not moves. In one year i took and passed on my first try all the adult moves and free style except for gold free which i will take for the first time in Nov. Also I moved over to the standard track and passed intermediate moves and will hopefully test novice moves in a few months. I have all my singles and combinations back as well as working on doubles which as far as i can see are only limited by my fear of hurting myself when i slam to the ice. My coach has never doubted my ability to continue on as far as i want to go. Oh, by the way I turned 52 today so i say stick a fork in your age, your only limitations are the ones you put on yourself and i bet you can go as far as you want! Go for it. Good luck.

My coach has never stressed any limitations on me due to my age (44); only brought me down from unrealistic expectations as far as testing goes vs. my current abilities. She constantly pushes me to exceed what I think I can do and push beyond my "comfort" level (my previous coach didn't do that and I never really progressed).

Yes, there are some times when age steps in. But all that means is it will take a bit longer to attain a certain skill. If you are willing to try, work hard at it, then don't accept any limitations set on you by other people. They aren't you and don't wear your skin. Go for it!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

emma, I think how much you learned as a kid can make a big difference later in life, and also how long you trained. Don't forget that some are talented and others just have to plug along until we finally get it. Congrats on getting so much back so fast.

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I think that is true although i was at a juv. level when I left skating at the age of 12 and back in the 60's juv level was much below what it is today. We were not doing double jumps at all and many of us did not even have an axel. So my skating back then was well below that of today. One advantage we have as adults that many of us did not have as kids is the maturity and the drive to excel. I work MUCH harder today then I did as a kid when I am on the ice I do nothing but work on moves, run my program and work on jumps . I am certain as a kid I spent half my time playing around with friends. Also I get concepts of moves and the need to be very percise in doing them and I am not sure I got the need to do that in figures. Plus I think I am much more driven now then as a kid. Because of all that I have been able to get much better than I was as a kid. It does not come easy to me I just work really hard at it! I was never one of those "talented" skaters and am not now.

SkatingonClouds,

Take a moment and read the "Going to the Olympics" thread.

I do think we tend to drive ourselves harder than most of the kids. Whether that is good or bad depends on the individual. Sometimes it is counterproductive, sometimes not. We work hard for our achievements (some of which are hard-won). We nit-pick and are very picky about how "good" we execute our moves. What is good for a little kid or teen is not good enough (i.e. crap) to us.

Do we expect to go to the Olympics? Most of us can honestly say no (unless as a spectator). Does that make us try any less harder? No way!!! Are we any less determined to perfect the moves? No way!!! For us, the things that hinder our progress is: lack of ice time, financial obligations that interfere with our skating money, our family and jobs that eat into our skating time, our health. I could go on but we all know what I'm talking about. It's that "personal best" type of challenge we accepted when we picked this sport.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I'm still having issues with my right forward mohawk and I'll be 28 in 18 days.

I have no problems with the left, but my right leg omg. I can't do anything on it. Spin, jump, mohawks, 3 turns...it's like it's dead

and it really gets me down a lot.

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I don't see what the big deal is. There are some biological issues that it's pointless to fight. As we age, all things being equal, we lose muscle mass. Many adults lose flexibility too. And let's don't even talk about what menopause does to you! When you toss in environmental factors, such as sedentary jobs and other demands for our time, most adults will never be the <fill in the blank athlete> they were 30 years ago. There's no shame in admitting that.

Which isn't to say that we can't try to compensate for this. We old ones can do everything in our power to stay strong and flexible, like lifting weights and cross training. We can approach our skating "smarter," as some like to say and focus better. Hooray for us!

I don't want a coach who treats me like a grown up brain in a kid's body. I want a coach who challenges me, but who understands that my body has changed. I want a coach who has realistic expectations for me and who will push me as far as we think I can go. I think I'm a good adult skater. Heck, I think I'm a good skater, but I'm 41 years old, fercryingoutloud. I'm not so delusional as to think I have the body or physical capability of an 18 year old. I'm not the least bit disturbed by this.

But I see absolutely nothing wrong with acknowledging that, for most of us, our bodies ain't what they used to be.

Well said, skaternum! It helps to have a really good relationship and level of understanding with your coach. I am on my second coach and she is a gem! She knows about my past auto accidents and the limitations/problems I have because of them. That doesn't give me a "free ride" ticket to goof off and be a slacker, nor would I want to be. She works me hard, but always with the understanding that I will let her know if we need to back down a bit.

Yeah, i hit the weights and do cardio, and stretch almost every night. I have to. I try to watch what I eat also. I can't eat like a 10-year-old (and don't think I'd want to).

It's a struggle sometimes to get on the ice and do stuff, but I listen to my body and know when I'm getting tired, it's time to get off. In that respect, I feel smarter than the kids.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I really reckon that when I get to 40+, I'll be equally as powerful as an 18 year old kid.

I'll second that "well said, Skaternum!"

emma, I worked much harder as a kid than I do as an adult, sorry to say. I started roller when I was 12 and skated till I was 18. I was totally obsessed with it to the point that I didn't have much social life. It was all skating and school. I vividly remember my first coach, who took me through silver, telling me what a good worker I was. I didn't realize till many years later that the subtext was that I had little talent. I'm probably just a tad above average in coordination and balance, but the balance is getting worse with age. I've never been very flexible and have great turn-in and no turn-out. OTOH, I was the kind of kid, unusual I think, who needed everything explained in great technical detail, and I also became a dance judge, so today I grasp what's going on right away. I'm never confused about edges, feet, arms, shoulders, direction, rotation, axes, etc. I know the terminology backwards and forwards. Ironically, now I learn much better by imitation, and watching elite skating always improves my feel for the ice. I often wish I had started ice when I gave up roller, or even in my 40's, when I still felt immortal

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In all fairness to my coach, we had been talking about some of the high-level competitors and their triple jumps and I had been lamenting how SLOW my progress has been. Her comment was an "expectations check" and perfectly in order.

At 57, I do not expect to do any "big jumps". I am a whole lot older, heavier, and have a different "centre of balance" than I did as a skinny 18 year old That's life. There is, however, nothing to stop me from doing what I do do well and that was exactly the jist of the conversation and lesson.

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

I couldn't have said it better. Also, you may not be the SAME skater you were as a child, but you could be a BETTER skater in some ways. We adults are more patient and more analytical, so we are less likely to waste our jump attempts flinging ourselves into the air hoping to land a double through sheer force.

Well...maybe most adults don't try to land doubles with force but damn I have been a fool and tried. I am getting smarter and trying to do the technique thing the way I should now. =-) I'm learning that guts will only get you so far and I have a coach that teaches the one and understands the pros of the other in me. I think I have a child skater spirit in my adult body. Yep, I'm another one who hates being limited because I'm an adult. I'm an individual and not just an adult. See me for who I am as a person. Sometimes I feel that I've hit a wall for a week or two as an "adult" and then found that it was just a lull before I made some new progress. A coach should encourage your dreams, they might just be in for a surprise. Besides if you dream you will get further than if your realistic. If I would have believed that I only could do certain skills and obtain certain levels in skating as an adult I would have peaked long ago. I believe in myself and I believe I can learn and achieve much if I work at it.

You can do it too.

Chico

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

Yeah, I hear you Skaternum.

My coach has never made me feel I am wasting her limited time, or made me feel that I can't achieve. Our struggle is overcoming my desperation to get back to where I was right now, when there is much in my basics that holds me back. I just have a sense of limited time, and want to achieve all I can before the inevitable happens.

I guess I just didn't like to hear that a coach had said out loud what I never want to have to admit; that it ain't going to happen.

By the way, speaking of dreams Chico, last night I dreamed I did an axel. Not one of those slow motion everything beautiful sort of dream axels, but a real rough and ready yet landed on one foot sort of jobs that would be how it would be if I did do it for real.

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Karen

I skate - therefore I am

Anybody can do anything...it's just a matter of willingness to learn, courage to overcome fear, playfulness to act like a kid sometimes (which will teach quite a lot that you'll never learn in any lesson), and a coach that's not willing to treat you any differently than anyone younger.

I've been helping an older friend learn to ice skate recently... I challenge him to do things and argue back when he doesn't want to, and try 20 different ways of explaining the same thing until we find something that works. In one day we went from "T-stops are impossible!" to doing them pretty well, and now he's doing them as well as anyone though he'd never done them before in his life. Today was day 2 on one-foot spins from back crossovers, and now he's no longer dragging the to-be-free-leg after the step onto the forward edge, getting around sometimes 4 times or so, and even got the push into a backspin hammered out. We worked on edge exercises and got them deeper and more confident. He can already do the outside edge exercises where you step from one onto the other and every 3rd one, hold the edge for a complete circle. We've done back edges, all the 3 turns, and a few brackets...all things dubbed "unachievable" at first.

He's learning really fast, and I'm not even a coach - I just keep trying different methods and advice until we find something that helps, and don't stop there. I love when something finally clicks and an immediate result can be seen. We also spend time doing things purposefully wrong or varied just to illustrate the difference in feel, and sometimes just act like kids which I think for me helped a lot with building confidence initially. But it's really all him just realizing his potential and getting out there and doing it.

This is a man who I don't doubt will have an axel and doubles within a few years and will end up competing well. By the end of this year I expect his spins to be getting solid, jumps to be up to the loop or flip, and overall moves and posture to be radically bettered. Meanwhile I see people in their 20's in lessons twice a week who look exactly the same as they did 6 months ago (and then there's me, who's gotten worse due to lack of practice and motivation...sigh). The difference is that though they are trying, they don't really believe in themselves at their age, and subconciously it holds them back.

One thing I've learned the hard way - if you set yourself up for failure you WILL fail. If you tell yourself you're fat and can't lose weight, you won't. If you tell yourself you're too old to make as fast as progress as a 10 year old, you won't. If you tell yourself your financial situation is hopeless and you're never going to escape living paycheck to paycheck...you won't. Not only do you have to really believe in yourself, but you have to believe so much that the constant doubts you hear because of your age or current status or whatever from people that don't matter don't make any difference.

Change is possible ANYWHERE that you want, and as long as you believe it, it can and will happen. For a coach, which should be someone you trust very much, to tell you anything unsupportive as mentioned above, is like your best friend coming to you and saying, "you know, you really are fat and ugly". Even if you're not and prior to that you never doubted yourself, that is really damaging and will eat at you.

My opinion is that you should not tolerate such negativity from anyone, especially your coach. Go find one that will believe in you. Nobody else is worth it no matter what their qualifications. And don't forget to believe in yourself unconditionally too, or all is for naught.

Best wishes,

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

My coach is also my best friend and we understand each other and we work well together. What appears (to an outsider) as "negativity" is her attempt to moderate my drive. I set high standards for myself, push myself really hard, and set high goals - I guess you could say I am a pretty intense "Type A" personality. My coach simply hasn't encountered anyone like me before (intensely DRIVEN!) and she is afraid I am setting myself up for failure and disappointment so she tries to keep my expectations realistic. We have only been working together since February and she is still learning that when I set my mind to something, it is GOING to happen! As a team, we are well balanced.

There's more I'd like to say but I am really starting to feel defensive about my coach/best friend so I had better shut up.

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )