Hi All,

It's very interesting to read dbny's Why Knee Pads thread. As an extremely risk-averse person when it comes to skating, I gradually added knee/elbow pads, wrist guards, and a helmet for practices and lessons. Just to prevent unnecessary damage while learning and goofing around, no problem taking them off for elements already mastered. (Semi-permanent bruises on me have dramatically decreased since and I feel much more comfortable practicing backspins)

The pads / wrist guards I wear were picked up casually from Sports Authority under rollerblading section. I broke the knee pads snowboarding and would like to ask for advices on replacements. I am guessing that rollerblading pads are designed to absorb more impact (cement vs. ice). It was, however, somewhat intrusive if strapped outside of pants and could potentially cause accident with "knee pad malfunction". For me, they briefly stuck a couple times in shoot-the-duck and once in jumps, but overall the pros far outweigh cons.

What kind of knee pads do you use or recommend? So far I heard about
- Skating safe gel pads
- Foam padding
- Plastic (more like rollerblading / snowboarding)

I wear pants while skating and how it looks is not a major factor. The priorities are 1) maximum impact absorption 2) minimum intrusion and then 3) comfort.

Your advices are greatly appreciated!

Rollerblading knee pads are not primarily designed to absorb shock, but rather to protect the skin from the rough surfaces encountered outdoors. I think any soft pad provides better shock absorption. I've used the slip on bicycle pads that you can find in any general sporting goods store, and found them to be pretty good, but the Skating Safe knee pads are immensely better. I know they are expensive, but they are worth their weight in gold. I'm not sure how long I've had mine, but from the old thread you referenced, I can see I bought them after 2006. I took a direct hit on one knee at speed, and didn't even have a bruise. It was as if I hadn't fallen on that knee at all. I wear mine all the time, and forget I am wearing them. I can't do a shoot the duck, but can go all the way down on both feet and don't even notice the pads. A bonus to their effectiveness is that, when worn under tights, they are invisible unless very close-up. I wore mine for testing. I'm now 63 and even less inclined to take chances with my knees.

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There have been several discussions about knee pads in the past. Here's one that cites a few different options:
http://www.skatingforums.com/showthread.php?t=27093

One suggestion you missed was soft volleyball knee pads. Some skaters like them because they allow joint flexibility and aren't too bulky.

Whether or not to wear pads is really up to the skater and coach. It makes sense to protect yourself from injury during practices, or even prevent additional injuries. (Says the woman who only wore knee pads after crash-landing her knee. See: Barn door, horse.) But, you don't want the padding to become a crutch and inhibit you from progressing.

Most skaters do not wear padding to test or compete, however, some cautious skaters wear super-discreet knee and crash pads.

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The problem with any knee pad with an outer plastic shell (like those for roller blading, skateboarding, roller derby) is that if you wear them over your tights or pants, you can potentially go sliding across the ice a lot further than you'd like to if you fall on your knees.

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I started with the roller blade knee pads and then the slip on bicycle pads, but both hindered my knee bend - not that it was great anyway. So, I've been using the skatingsafe gel pads for several years and I love them. But, now I have no excuses for not bending my knees enough

The volleyball pads are about twice as thick as the bicycle pads. I never found the bicycle pads to be a problem with knee bend, but that's never been a particular problem of mine anyway (not that it couldn't always improve.)

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It sounds to me that the Skating Safe gel pads are your best bet given your priorities. Volleyball pads are bulky. Foam pads with the pockets in the pants often slides off the knee upon impact (so much for shock absorption...)
Plastic ones for roller blading is way too bulky and yes, you often end up sliding further than you would like. (Guess how *I* know this? )

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Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I recommend the skating safe. If they're too expensive, you can make your own out of a Akton padding wheelchair pad. I posted photos of ones I made this way a while back. You can get probably 3 pairs out of one pad, so if you have any skating buddies who want to go in on it with you, you could get a pair pretty cheap. Or you could do like me and make knee pads, hip pads, a butt pad...

I've fallen in mine and not even realized I hit my knee at first - till I look at my position on the ice, snow on my pants, and replay the fall. They're that good.

I don't post all that often, so it'd probably be pretty easy to find the thread if you're interested

It may depend on what kind of skating you're doing.
I armor up with head protection, wrist and elbow protection, but not knee because I'm doing figures. I've only fallen three times on my knees in 4 years, and once was because I was run into by a 7 year old.

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Great forum quotes:
On Falling: '...it doesn't matter, it's what you do AFTER you fall that's more important' ISK8NYC

Thank you so much everyone for your advices. Apologies for not doing my homework first.
Now I really start to consider switching to gel pads! Yes the Skating Safe ones are $$$$$ and thank you Audryb for pointing out the DIY alternative.
Dbny, thanks for mentioning that you switched to gel pads after the thinner bike knee pads did not provide enough protection in an ugly fall. I was actually thinking about that option earlier.
Question to gel pad users: Do you use retention sleeves to hold them in place if you skate in pants? Also do they irritate the skin if you sweat quite a bit?
PS: I also enjoyed the comments about "pad in the hat" (lol) and sewing pad pockets on bike shorts. Great ideas to play with!

I always sweat under mine, and they don't irritate at all. When I take them off, my knees kind of feel like I recently put lotion on them or something.

Also, I took off all the tape I'd originally put on the edges, so I think the slight sticky-ness of the edges of mine might help keep them in place. I usually skate in stretchy, form fitting pants (the side stripe ones from Chloe Noel) and I just put the pads inside like they're tights and they don't move at all.

I do use the retention sleeves with my gel pads which works best for me. But, a lot of the skaters do use the tights not the sleeves and that seems to work for them. I think it's just personal preference.

where do you get the retention sleeves? I occasionally go to a public session or skate on a pond with friends and wear jeans... and invariably after skating a while, I start trying to do tricky stuff and end up falling on my un-padded knees... (I can go months without falling on the kneepads, but the one time I don't wear them, bam!)

Skatingsafe.com carries retention sleeves for $8.80 each, some other weibsites have them for $6.50 each. Use: Holds UltraCrash Kneepads, UltraCrash Elbow Protectors and ankle/foot gel pads in position • Versatile • Multifunctional • Very Thin • Effectively holds knee pads and elbow pads in place • Sleeve edges will not cause discomfort • Made of compression hose material; 11.9 % Lycra®, 88.1 % Nylon • Latex Free • For male skaters who don't wear tights • Fits most children and adults • Odor/Bacteria Resistant (May be washed with mild soap.)
I have some sleeves on hand but they probably won't fit snugly enough. Alas, maybe I can attempt to sew a sleeve with pockets using stretch materials to 1) hold pad in place 2) avoid direct skin contact? Too big of a project especially finding the right material LOL
Audryb, is this the right product? Seems like there is also a repair kit available for the sticky edge after cutting the Akton pads. Not sure if it is worth it considering the irregular shapes here... Use either the Akton Repair Kit Patch or the roll for quick and easy resurfacing of small cuts or punctures on any Action pad. Full instructions included. Action pads can be cut for custom sizing and application. The cut surface will be sticky. We recommend using the Repair Kit to cover the cut edges.

yes, that's exactly what I used.

Interesting about the repair kit. I don't know if it'd be worth it either. I actually thought the sticky edges would be a lot more of a problem than they are. They get a little lint on them and stop being sticky. I thought that would look really gross and dirty, but it actually doesn't.

Safety gear is mostly a good thing, and should be encouraged!

But no amount of protective gear will save you from injury, if you fall on locked arms or elbows.

You've seen my page on Falling Gently, right? I practiced falls until I no longer feared them, and don't bother with safety gear. But I'm still afraid to fall on crowded ice - might loose an eye or a finger.

You could always a full hockey gear.

As a compromise, gloves and a cotton sweat suit, with long sleeves and long pants, provides some protection for everything but the head.

But I guess for a lot of you skating ladies, skating is all about showing off, and protective gear just doesn't cut it.

Reminds me of a a surfing instructor who told me style is everything on the wave. Life jackets, helmets, baggy dry suits, or wet suits that were any thicker than they had to be, would be totally uncool.

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That's funny, because I ONLY wear protection (including knees) when I'm doing figures! I haven't quite adjusted to the small toe picks on my patch blades yet, and have a tendency to go down on back edges if I get my weight too far forward. For freestyle or dance I find it all too restrictive, and, at least so far, have been able to fall "gently", as Query puts it.

I really don't think that if someone doesn't want to wear huge, bulky pads it's necessarily because for them, skating is all about showing off. Skating is definitely a performance sport, but saying it's all about showing off isn't a very nice way to put it (or very accurate, for that matter) For me, skating is mostly about personal accomplishment. Nobody's going to single me out as the great skater of the rink. However, that doesn't mean I have no vanity

Also, you can practice falling all you want, but when you're in a power class and the coach is working you hard and you're getting tired and your blades click together on fast, powerful back crossovers because you're knees are starting to un-bend a little, well, it's very likely you're going down HARD on at least one knee. No amount of reflex is going to save you when all your weight is on one leg, that knee is little more than a foot above the ice, and that foot is suddenly kicked out from beneath you. There just isn't time. I wear kneepads because I don't know when to say I've had enough, and I tend to have stuff like that happen when I get tired. I bought the gel, not because of the low profile, though that's a nice bonus, but because of the amazing shock absorption they offer, without getting in the way.

Also, I'm not working on any high level jumps that require me to fall over and over, but I skate with people who are, and let me tell you, most of these kids have no fear of falling - they've been skating since they were little. But they wear butt pads (thick ones, that stick out) when they work on higher doubles and triples. Because they fall and fall and fall. I fall. I'm a decent faller. It doesn't usually set me back much at all to fall on hip or butt or whatever. BUt falling on the same hip 15 times in a session? When I start working on the axel, I'll definitely be wearing butt-pads.

"Showing off" isn't "bad". It's normal. "Exhibitionism" is "bad" - but only a little, and never for lovely ladies. (Did someone scream "sexist"? Sorry.)



Let's do the math.

Suppose your knee is 1 foot off the ice, that it falls straight down without resistance.

So, it follows a physics free fall trajectory. Apply d = 1/2 * a * t^2, and a=32.2 feet/second. Your knee reaches the ice in about .25 seconds. My own thought-out reaction speed is about .2 seconds, and I'm not a great athlete. Further, the initial balance reactions that don't require decisions, like arm movements and knee bends that absorb the momentum and slow the fall, and curling your head into a safe position, so you could make a safe roll or slide, can be trained to be much faster.

Sources on reaction times differ a good deal, but some sources cite measured reaction speeds of about .07 seconds for well trained reactions that don't require decisions, and an additional .07 seconds for each decision.

(Untrained reactions, especially if you aren't paying attention, are slower, especially if the decisions are complex. Driving manuals want you 2 - 3 seconds back from other cars.)

In reality, you say it will be a little higher than 1 foot, and there will always be some resistance as you start to fall, so there is more time. If your knees are starting to unbend, as you say, you are going up, so there will be still more time.

You need well trained reflexes to react fast enough, but it can be done, if you want it badly enough.



A fall from 1 foot probably won't do much damage to your knee. If damage is done, it is because there is resistance, partly horizontal, that drives your whole body to rotate and bring your whole weight down on the knee. Such a fall takes more time, because the parts of your body that are further from the ice have to reach it too.



If you are skating backwards for speed, your whole body leans back, so you can push yourself backwards off the ice. Both legs and skates are always in front of your body, and if you fall, you roll onto your back. Since you skate on an arc, and your legs are swinging sideways, you will also roll somewhat to the side on the inside of the arc.

So, the natural trajectory will bring you down on the back and a little bit on the side of the leg and/or knee, which are soft and won't be hurt.

So you will not come down on your kneecap, which I assume is the problem, though you didn't exactly say.

It's just basic physics. If you come down from the indicated position onto your kneecap, [u]you reacted in time, but reacted wrong. The unreacted fall brings you down safely, except that if you don't roll your head forward (you have even more time before your head hits), you may hit the back of your head on the ice.

For me the fall would bring me down sliding onto the whole soft side of the leg and arm, because I have trained myself to move that way. Besides, I use dance blades, and usually won't trip in the first place. ("Well, hardly ever!")

I am having a hard time imagining body part movements that could possibly bring you onto your vulnerable kneecap. It has to be a very strong fast reaction, to roll you almost 180 degrees towards the kneecap so quickly. Perhaps instead of tucking and rolling, you are thrusting your arms and head upwards, which places a contrary torque on the rest of your body, rotating the front of your torso and legs towards the ice? Or do you move your arms to hit first, and use some sort of sideways force against the ice to roll you onto your knee?

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Reacting fast and reacting right takes time and practice, especially since you need to unlearn an improper reflex.

Wearing padding takes no time and practice. If your current reaction reflex brings you down on your kneecap, wearing a little cheap foam or bubble wrap under your pants (if you wear pants) at your knee will solve the problem. Virtually any cheap kneepads will do the same thing, but will be more obvious.

I don't get why people think protection is bad. In kayaking, bicycling, skateboarding and rock climbing, kids beg their parents for the latest stylish helmets and other protection. The only explanation I have is that skating is exhibitionist .

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I've witnessed many Helmet Wars for other sports and have seen many people (young and old) going without them or having ...ahem... animated parent/child discussions about their absence. I can predict which students will be reckless in classes based on their helmet complaints. There's some mix of ego and foolishness that will cause a preteen or teenager to insist "I don't need a helmet" followed by a stupid attempt to lean against the wall on the ice, resulting in a crack to the back of the head as they fall down. I've learned over the years that I have to draw the "None Shall Pass" line 3' from the wall, especially when a helmet bigot is in the class. It's difficult to send someone off the ice for not wearing a helmet when the skating school doesn't have a firm policy in place.

If "exhibitionist" is the best explanation you have, I'll give you a few more:

. Ego/Overconfidence - I don't need it, I'm too good.
. Self-consciousness - I'm too old to be treated like a little kid.
. Peer Pressure - No one else is wearing one.
. Distractions - I can't spin when I wear a helmet/knee pads/etc.

The only time a form of protection becomes an issue is when you have to skate without wearing it and that inhibits your ability to perform. Protection can easily become a crutch, especially if you've taken some bad spills while wearing the pads/helmet in practice. Skaters lose their confidence in their own abilities, so it is good to skate both with and without, tapering off before a test/competition. It's like wearing a skirt for the first time - you don't want to wait until the warmup to try it out.

Truthfully, if a skater feels they need pads before a scheduled test or competition, they're probably not ready to take the test yet.

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Well, some of it is peer pressure, Query! I'd be much more likely to warm up off-ice should some other skaters are regularly doing it. Thanks for the link, I hope to read it throughly and practice falling gently. Man I remember falling with locked wrist a few times, counting on the plastic wrist guard to save me. Bad bad bad habit.

Bought the materials for gel pads DIY and anxious for them to arrive. Might have enough for a full set including protection pants and ankle wraps!

Well I really disagree with such a broad generalization. Adults and most kids are not going to the Olympics, and I don't see why wearing knee pads should be any indication of readiness to test. Instead, I think they indicate a grasp of reality beyond what most skaters are ready to admit. I was out of (roller) skating for a year as a kid because of too many whacks to my L knee. I have no desire to put myself off the ice and out of work through lack of protection for my knees. I wore my SkatingSafe pads to test dance and no one noticed, least of all the judge, who never got close enough to see such detail anyway.

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I didn't say anything about what the judges may/may not notice and I was thinking about a Freeskate test, not a dance test. I feel that a skater who "needs" the pads for a test has a lack of self-confidence in their own skating ability. I can't imagine going into a test expecting to fall! Tests should be approached with confidence and preparation to skate as perfect as possible. Just mho. You can wear whatever you want, but I would never test wearing pads.

I have seen some falls on dance and moves as well as freeskate tests, but the skater just brushed it off and kept going. All but two passed and no one was seriously hurt - just some bruises.

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I have no lack of confidence in my skating abilities. I have probably whacked a knee once in the past 3 or 4 years, but that one time was a bad one and could have kept me off the ice for an extended period. I see absolutely no reason to take such chances when I don't have to.

I would never presume to doubt another skater's confidence because they wear any kind of protective gear. Conversely, there are plenty of over confident skaters out there beating themselves black and blue and possibly sustaining cumulative injuries that they will regret in later years, because they have been told not to protect themselves or feel there is some stigma in it.

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I wuz wrong!

Shouldn't have spoken without trying it. I was taught, by ice dancers, to keep an unbent waist. Pushing for speed, I lean back on backwards crossovers, so my center of gravity is behind my skates.

But I tried to imitate freestyle/hockey position today, with the waist bent deeply forwards. I'm sure I didn't get that position exactly right, but t's pretty easy to end up with my center of mass forwards of the center of my blades, so a forwards fall is possible.

What is more, a kid cut me off, skating fast across my path, 1 or 2 feet in front of me. I responded wrong, and just stiffened. I barely managed to miss them. I haven't practiced collision avoidance as much as falls, and that clearly needs work. But how can I practice that without scaring other skaters?

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