I was reviewing the updated SOV for the upcoming year and I noticed some significant changes. One, is that there is now an additional column for "BASE<" which lists the corresponding values. Second, there is an increase in the base value for an axel, which I'm sure will make a difference in adult skating. There are plenty of other little interesting changes (feel free to discuss!) but I did have a question on one of the "new" elements. Under the Step and Spiral Sequences, does anyone know what the "Choreo Step Seq." and "Choreo Spirals" are?

Reference:

2010-2011 Singles and Pairs Scale of Values (from ISU Communication 1611, 5/6/10, PDF)

2010-11 Singles Level of Difficulty (from ISU Communication 1611, 5/6/10, PDF)

2010-11 Pairs Level of Difficulty (from ISU Communication 1611, 5/6/10, PDF)

2010-11 Establishing GOE in Pairs Short Program and Free Skate (Includes Positive Aspects) (from ISU Communication 1611, 5/6/10, PDF)



ISU Communication 1611 - Singles & Pairs - SOVs, GOE & Levels of Difficulty for 2010-11 (5/6/10, PDF)

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I'm not sure what those the "Choreo Step" and "Choreo Spiral" are - can't find any reference to that phrase or the abbreviation on the USFSA or ISU sites.

ETA: I know the terms are on the chart of the original post/ISU Communication 1611/other derivations, but the actual phrase and abbreviations are not listed in any OTHER documents on the ISU/USFSA sites. I'm surprised that it wasn't defined or explained anywhere else. Must be new; I assume it's a replacement for the Spiral and Step sequences, especially at the Junior level.

This is great for Adult skaters:

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It seems that Base< is a new score for an underrotated jump - perhaps not quite so bad as getting the score of the jump with one less revolution and the -ve goe

It's at the bottom of page 2 (numbered page 3) on your first link...

Ughhh, the half loop; I'm so not a fan of that jump. And I don't like that it gets the same amount of points as a loop jump. Oh well...

Crap, this means I'll have to change two of the jumps in my program (assuming this "half loop is now a jump" rule carries over to 6.0).

I had a lutz/loop/toe as my 3 jump combo, a flip/half loop/sal as a 2 jump sequence, and in playing around last week just changed my solo flip to a half loop/flip to give it a difficult entry. Guess 2 of those have to come out now

So a wally still isn't a jump? But a half loop is, that doesn't make sense. If a half loop is a jump, a wally should be a jump, too.

This does make life easier for skaters under IJS who tend to toe-waltz when they tack a toe loop at the end of the sequence, and therefore don't get it called. Now they can do a half loop-sal and have it be a combo, not a sequence.

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HisWeirness on FSUniverse has done an excellent summary of the changes. http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73440

I am thrilled with these changes. No more having to pull your leg up on spirals. No more spins with identical features. The axel getting higher points. It's all good to me.

I asked in the linked thread what a choreo spiral is. Apparently the spiral sequence no longer has features (yay) and is worth 2.0. It can consist of two 3 second spirals or one 6 second spiral (I think - going my memory here).

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"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

That's an excellent observation!

I wish I could be as happy about the new "choreo SpSq" as Sk8r1964, but after spending the last 5 years working my butt off for a level 4 spiral sequence each year, this drastic rule change just makes me

It's nice that the axel is worth more, but the 2S is worth more by the same number of points, so there is only a point advantage if you are skating against other skaters with no axel or 2S.

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(((doubletoe))) I do feel your pain - but I am so glad I may no longer have to feel mine!

The reason I am so glad they did this is because I didn't really like the trend of skaters at our level ditching the axel and sticking to easier jumps in order to play it safe. This way, they can still do this, but the point difference between the lutz and an axel or double may now make it worth it.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

I heartily agree with skater1964 with regard to spirals, axels, and double jumps. I have a hard time with skaters at the Gold level ditching Axels for higher level spiral sequences because then what is the difference between Silver and Gold?

The "base <" is a 70% value for a jump that is between 1/4 and 1/2 cheat according to the tech panel.

So it's now even easier to get a spiral sequence, but (correct me if I'm wrong), but it looks like nothing has changed with regard to making step sequences easier to get credit for. If that's the case, it totally blows. Keeping the "spiral or step sequence" requirement that we have in adult levels seems pointless, because who in their right mind will risk a step sequence now if they're given the choice? Maybe adult gold+ should require both? I'd love to see a SS requirement, I think that's much more of an equalizer than a spiral sequence or the choice between the two. There is certainly plenty of time for both of those. My silver program has both a 3 sec spiral-3 sec spiral and a SS that covers 3/4 of the ice surface (could have time for full length but I go into my flip from my SS so I need to leave some room). If I can fit that in a silver program, there is no reason why both a SS and spiral can't be fit in gold or higher.

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2010-2011 goals:
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Techskater - I don't see anyone ditching axels for spiral sequences in Gold; it's skaters ditching axels for easier jumps. And I agree with Sk8r1964 that the increased value of the axel, 2S and 2T will be a well-earned reward for those Gold skaters who go for them rather than playing it safe.

RachelSk8r - It is not really easier to get points for a spiral sequence. Before, all you had to do was 2 spirals for 3 seconds each and you got 1.8 base value for level 1. Now that base value is 2.0 for basically the same thing, but it's harder to get the same point value you could have gotten for a level 3 or 4 spiral sequence.

As for the SpSq vs StSq in Adult Gold and Masters, I'm just guessing that if they continue to offer the option of one or the other, they will level the playing field by treating the step sequence as the "choreo step sequence" with the same flat base value as the spiral sequence. It seems like it would be the simplest solution.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

It is harder to get a step sequence called than a spiral sequence. Given the choice, most ladies were going for the spiral sequence for that reason--even if your sprials were not incredible feats of flexibility, you could still get a level 2 without too much difficulty. If that weren't the case, you'd see numbers of people attempting one vs. the other be more equal. Only a few adults are getting level 3 steps, more are able to get 3 or 4 spirals called (about 3 ladies did it). In champ gold ladies--10 did spiral sequences (a few got called 3s, some 2s, some 1s). Only 2 did step sequences (Emily got a 3 and Andrea got a 1). Champ int/novice ladies--8 spiral sequences, 4 step sequences. Champ jr/sr ladies balanced out a little more with 8 spiral sequences and 5 step sequences.

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2010-2011 goals:
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It's harder to get a high-level step sequence called, yes, but not a step sequence. You can just do a bunch of three-turns and mohawks down the ice, and it's called level 1. doubletoe's point is that now you can just do the bare minimum for each and it fulfills "choreo." And that would even the playing field.

Uh, me? And others like me who physically can't do spirals due to back or other injuries/issues?

Which, to my mind, put you in a disadvantage situation from the git-go.

The average gold skater can probably do a level 2 spiral sequence without too much difficulty, but this same average gold skater would have much more difficulty getting a level 2 step sequence, just because of the way the rules are written. That's one of the reasons I always thought the sprial sequences received far too high of a value for our level. I could certainly see the logic at the senior level, where both were required, but I thought it disadvantaged skaters at our level.

I actually like the idea of using the choreo points for both spirals and step sequences so that they were equal. I would love to see more footwork return to adult skating - we work so darn hard on those moves we need to flaunt them! Then, the reward would be in performing the chosen sequence well - in the GOE's.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Let me correct that - I meant that a spiral sequence at L3/4 has been receiving 25-35% of the entire technical element score for many Gold Ladies so it was in their best interest to leave out an Axel that is shaky at best) and could have resulted in a fall or a lost jump pass due to a 1A <). They have spent time working to get an addition 0.5-1 point for their spiral sequence which is equivalent (or more) to the differential between the easier jump they are attempting (like a Salchow) and doing an Axel.

My point is that if we are going to have a high number of Gold skaters leaving out Axels (there were several in different open Gold groups who did well without attempting one), then what is the difference between the current landscape of highly competitive Silvers who can't pass the Gold FS test because they can't do an (even close!) Axel and some Golds who aren't attempting it competitively? The new SOV makes it in the best interest of a skater who's Axel may be a little short rotation under pressure to give it a shot, which I like.

I agree.

..............

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

How would the new spiral rule affect the (U.S.) Novice level? Right now, skaters have the option of doing a spiral or step sequence and most ladies are doing a spiral sequence b/c it's easier to get Level 4. I guess now everyone will do a step sequence b/c that option is worth more points? Or is there no longer an option and will everyone have to do steps (like in Juv and Int)?

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To my mind, it did as well. So I just did everything I could to try to get points in other areas. (Which wasn't easy, since my back keeps me from doing doubles, too ... but we do what we can with what we have!)

RE Half Loop:

It will be also subject for scrutiny, so people who do half loops that basically land forward and spin on the toe pick will either get it downgraded, or have a low GOE on that jump in the sequence.

Spiral changes - will enrage a number of little girls who have been focussing on getting their legs pulled above their heads in Y-spirals and the like; but, perhaps, will also cut down on the number of little girls I've seen with hip injuries from chasing extreme spiral positions. Will also change the playing field at the lower levels: a L4 Spiral sequence used to rack up enough points to more than make up for missing jump content. Will also make the points Year over Year relatively incomparable, as with spirals for girls being mandatory in short programs (IIRC) - they are now automatically and by default prevented from reaching the same score for the same move.

All double jumps (including the 2A) are worth more now; interesting. Messes up my one kid who has huge beautiful singles but struggles with landing doubles. Same sort of thing with triples. However, the "cheat" category may help her out too ... hmmm ...

Cheated singles will now get a value, instead of being called as zero: very interesting! (although, the funniest thing I saw last year was when they created a SOV for our test track skaters who were using CPC for the first time, and they added a score for a cheated waltz jump )

Need for different spin features: will reduce the one-note skaters and encourage more variety. Will also change the playing field for the skaters in terms of making it more difficult to get multiple L4 spins when they do one or two things "very well" but not much else.

Weird anomaly, any idea why: the 1A is worth more, the 2A is worth less - ? Or am I seeing things? Went from 3.5 to 3.3 ????

Points for the half-loop: will create problems where 3-jump combos/sequences are not permitted and the coach has been using a half-loop as a connector.

Yeah, this is one thing I'm glad about. I see these poor little girls at my rink who do not naturally have the flexibility pulling muscles left and right or winding up with back injuries trying to hit positions. Although with the jumps they're also doing at younger and younger ages, I don't know if they're any better off because their hips/knees are taking such a pounding. I'm hearing of a lot more kids coming down with stress fractures and foot issues than in the past.

When I was a kid competing in the early 90s, you never did any of these spirals unless you naturally already had the flexibility. The most any of us ever did were the Kerrigan spirals, those were all the rage back then (grabbing and holding the knee). Y-spirals were basically unheard of or if you could, you didn't do them because they're just so unattractive. And you only did a catch foot spiral (same side arm grabbing the blade) if you weren't really flexible to try and hide that fact.

I haven't looked at potential synchro changes (not skating or coaching has me out of the synchro loop these days), but IJS has put a pretty big emphasis of flexibility there, too, and a lot of these skaters are getting all sorts of injuries from trying to get these positions, turning out spread eagles from their knees because they can't do it from the hips, etc.

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I'm concerned there will be a trickle down effect to the lower and open levels with the increasing demand on flexibility in Junior and Senior synchro. 135 spirals like http://www.teamberlin-1.de/img/live/n2167.jpg and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s_in_sync_.jpg (that one's not even that extreme either) and spread eagles are so commonplace in those two levels now, even in my Open Juvenile level I saw a few teams with kids trying some extreme positions in their moves in isolation. It was so unattractive and the coach should have known better than to even have the kids try it.

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I still don't understand the difference between a choreo step sequence and, let's say, a level 1 step sequence.

I'm not a fan of the new spiral sequence rules. As a person who still has some flexibility (although strength is more of my issue - you can pull my leg up high, but I have a difficult time holding it there) this change is no fun. So now as long as you get your leg at hip height and hold it for 3 seconds, you're done. Do you even have to do more than 1 position? Hold it longer than 3 seconds?

At the same time, I do understand the craziness that occured last year with all of the different spiral positions. Some were pretty, some were just...well...not so pretty. I am curious about the rationale for the change though, because if it was to help prevent injury, there's other ways to do that.

Yeah, wouldn't it basically get rid of a level 1 SS? Because the way I understand it, you can essentially do a step sequence with whatever steps you want and get 2.0 base value for it if it doesn't fit any of the higher level step sequences, whereas before a level 1 was what, 1.8? (And are they then mainly looking at the choreography and music interpretation and caring less about what steps your feet are doing and whether your counters are actually counters, your rockers are actually rockers, etc?)

Or does a choreo step sequence perhaps a way to give credit for a second step sequence in the program that was previously viewed just as a transition, and the regular step sequence levels still apply for the actual step sequence that is required (where applicable)?

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2010-2011 goals:
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