Hi,

I need some advice. DD has been skating for a year now. I think she has made major progress. She was in Snowplow Sam a year ago marching and now she is doing turns, lunges, spirals, but no jumps. She is comparing herself to another girl who also started taking lessons a year ago, and she is on Mohawks, waltz, jumps, and ballet jumps. I told her everyone progresses at different rate. I also found out from her mom that she has been skating at the park (no lessons) for 2 years before she started her formal lessons. Would that make any difference in how fast this other girl is progressing? DD is technically at Basic 3 though she can do an element or two from higher levels. But like I said, she never even saw an ice ring before this time last year. So I tried to put a spin on it that she mastered 6 levels in a year Sam1-3 Basic 1-3. But she sees other girl doing basic 1-8 in a year. I'm thinking she really did it in 3 years. Any thoughts??

Thanks

It could definitely make a difference that the other little girl skated a lot before coming into formal lessons.

That said, it is very, very true that everyone progresses at a different rate, and if you compare yourself to others it will drive you mad in a very short time! It also makes a HUGE difference how much she practices.

Skating for two years before starting lessons is a plus and I do think you could tell your daughter that the other skater really took three years to get to her present level. It is, though, a good idea to steer her away from comparing her progress to that of other kids. Everyone learns at their own pace, and everyone learns differently. Some kids do great with basic skating skills and then have problems with spins while others have problems with jumps. Some struggle with basic skills and then spin and/or jump with ease.

Just being on the ice a lot is a huge advantage. Kids who have one group lesson a week, but skate on public sessions three or four times a week are going to zoom ahead compared to those who only come for the group lesson.

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It certainly is hard not to compare. I showed her the comments. So now she wants to know is she "where she's supposed to be at?" gee what are they teaching these kids in language arts?!?

At our rink, most kids take 8 weeks per level until Basic 6 or so- then some kids do it in 8 weeks, other kids need 16 weeks (it's rare for a kid to redo a level more than once). Some of the youngest kids stay in the snowplow sam levels for up to a year. (That's usually a 3 year old with motor skill issues)

Once you hit the freestyle levels, it's a whole new ball game. Most kids don't stick in group lessons, those who do can take much longer than a session or 2 to pass the prescribed levels.

Your daughter is at a great place for her skating. The kids who go snowplow to freestyle in 1 year are usually older, have a dance or gymnastics background, and skate 3-4 times a week, with 2 group lessons or a group and private lesson.

At least, that's my observation. I only teach snowplow and sub for the basic skills.

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

To be able to do turns, lunges, spirals after a year of skating seems good to me! I have had some kids in my LTS classes who move up quickly, but then take a break for a session or don't practice and they actually regress a lot quicker than the kids who worked hard to really learn good technique. I always stress to parents that it isn't what level the child is in or what they can do that means they're making progress. Some of the most talented children I've taught are a bit 'slow' on some basic skills but really work hard and learn how to do everything correctly (rather than fooling around, doing jumps when they aren't ready to, etc). There's also a point where certain things "just click!" I do believe in introducing higher level skills, but without sound basics, they won't get far!

What I have found with teaching group lessons is that the kids who shoot up the levels really quick get VERY frustrated when they don't get it quick and at times they get so frustrated that they stop skating....slow and steady wins the race...the basic skills are so important to actually doing the jumps and spins at the later levels, that she will be happy later to have actually learned them well.

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Skating Dreams

"All your life you are told the things you cannot do. All your life they will say you're not good enough or strong enough or talented enough; they will say you're the wrong height or the wrong weight or the wrong type to play this or be this or achieve this. THEY WILL TELL YOU NO, a thousand times no, until all the no's become meaningless. All your life they will tell you no, quite firmly and very quickly. AND YOU WILL TELL THEM YES." --Nike

For a child yes, for a parent, no. You must teach her ways to not think of that other skater as a measuring stick. It's very important for your DD's self-esteem and achievement. It comes to a head at competitions - "Why did SHE get the gold and I got the bronze?" and can cause major discouragement and frustration.

It's also a life skill - there will always be someone who achieves something earlier than us, we all have to learn to manage our emotions in that way.

Dissuade your daughter from comparing herself to anyone other than herself. She's done very well in the past year and I hope she's enjoyed it and will continue to have fun skating. It's a great sport if you keep it fun.

To echo the prior posters, there IS NO COMPARISON between the two skaters. One started out with an advantage and there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

Skater A (the other girl) had a head start by starting lessons after she was already experienced at skating. She was probably more comfortable on the ice / in her skates, knew a few tricks from just going around the rink, and had had more practice even before the class started!

In truth, the other girl probably should have started in Basic 1, not Snowplow Sam classes.

Skater B loved the idea of skating, but had never set foot on the ice before starting lessons. She learned to march, fall, balance, and glide as part of her education. She's done very well to move up so many levels in one year and by focusing on her own achievements, she will continue to progress at her own rate.

If your daughter wants to progress faster, she should be skating and practicing in between lessons. Not just wandering around the ice on a public session counting the uprights between the glass (one of my DD's did that - I was so angry!), but actually practicing the skills in her current level. In addition, she should work on one-foot glides and bent-knee stroking every single time she's on the ice.

I recommend a 1:3 ratio of lessons:practice. A half-hour lesson once a week will be more productive if the skaters practice for 1.5 hours each week. It requires the family to make the time in their schedule for that practicing. Many can't/won't, so their skater falls behind the others that find the time to practice.


In a group setting, skaters who only take lessons (no practice) find that:

• the group instructor has to spend more time reteaching and less time teaching mastery of the skills;
• the lesson-only skaters often have to repeat a level to master the skills;
• other skaters move up faster because they practiced; and
• everyone feels the frustration, lol.

I have a few private students who felt very frustrated in the group lesson program and switched to privates because of the testing. No one likes to be "left behind" but moving a skater up that hasn't mastered the skills causes the next-level class to be weaker. The levels build on each other, so some WEAK skills from the lower-level will prevent the skater from being able to master the skills on the higher-level class.

Eight weeks is a short time period to master an entire level from scratch once you reach Basic 4/5. Our rink will keep kids at the same level for multiple sessions, especially above Basic 6.

Example:
I won't move a student up if they can't do the Basic 8 one-foot spin successfully. "Good enough" doesn't exist because the one-foot spin is the foundation for the Freeskate 1 Scratch Spin. That's usually why students get "stuck" at FS1 for multiple sessions - they never mastered the Basic 8 skill!

I tell the parents and the skaters before the Basic 8 class ends if I'd like to keep the skater for an extra session. I explain why, I demonstrate the required skill level, and compare it to the skaters' skill. I'm very honest that I'd rather have the student master that level before moving up because it's kinder than having them "sent back down" to Basic 8 or "get stuck" at Freeskate 1. So far, I haven't had any negative feedback about that method.

Every rink needs more rink rats, especially ones with toe picks to keep our sport growing. (The hockey kids seem to multiple exponentially)

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thanks such great information

Anyone have tips on how to get your kids to focus on learning thier stuff and not push themselves too hard?

Also during practice, I notice that her technique is not good. I only know this with the t-stop (her back foot bends back instead of staying straight). I have noticed that when she has two lessons and no practice her technique is better. The coach keeps her from getting a habit that coach needs to break. But I can't keep her off the ice, so she'll have her practice time

Maybe you're remembering the t-stop wrong? If she's turning her ankle inward (big toe down) then she's using an inside edge, which is incorrect. Straight is also not correct, but it's a learning drill to stop the foot-dragging.

The stopping foot should be on an outside edge. The foot is angled, pinky-toe down, towards the ice. I tell my students that it feels like you're "shoving the back foot blade underneath the skating foot." (Won't happen, but it does feel that way.)



As for practicing, put a notebook in her skating bag and have her write down what she learned, what she practiced, and what she wants to work on. Ask the instructor what she needs to practice and have your daughter write it down in there. Coaches have keywords or phrases that we say over and over to remind skaters of what to do - write them down!

Make a list of the elements in that level and have her do each set 5-10x per practice session. Don't correct her or tell her what to do - ask her what the instructor said during the last lesson. Asking your daughter what she learned helps her remember the correct technique.

Have her write down some simple, fun stuff she wants to do. The Spreadeagle is a pretty move that takes time to learn, but there's NO harm in trying a spreadeagle. It'll pay off when she gets to the Mohawks because she'll be comfortable with the movement.

When she goes to practice, bring the notebook and check off what she works on.

But don't make it completely work. Let her hang out a little and make friends, and acknowledge what others do well. That's a huge part of sportsmanship: being able to admit others do something better/worse and still be a good sport about it.

Don't let her tear herself down - she's done very well so far. The best thing for you to do when she starts her comparisons is to make her stop talking about it in envy. I think you're focusing on it a little too much as well, which reinforces that behavior in your daughter. Focusing on it constantly means that she'll tear herself apart and drag you down the stereotypical Skating Parent path. Don't go there - it's ugly and bad for your blood pressure, lol. You'll both enjoy the sport more if you focus on it being fun.

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Gosh, there are so many factors - age, practice time, temprement, natural athletic ability etc.

My dd started at just turned 5, she stayed in SS for 6 months mostly because of the way the program was run (think dance recital mentality). So we moved her and she started out in Basic 3. She finished all the freeskates by 7 years old, but she took 2x a week by then as well as a private lesson.

Now at 9, she can practice effectively, but up to 6 months ago or so, it was hard for her. She does have a notebook.

Taking a group lesson several times a week is another tactic. A former student's parents did that because the rink's open skating schedule was awful - NOTHING during the week other than lessons. So the parents signed her up for a second lesson each week.

The only drawback will be if there are different teachers with different styles. Sometimes young skaters prefer one to the other or get confused by different teaching styles/cues.

Still, it's a good suggestion.

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thanks Isk8nyc! Those are great tips!

With the t-stop. I think that is exactly what she is doing (the dragging of the foot). I don't think she's ready for it, but she pushes. The other day she saw one of the hockey kids hoping around on one foot. Needless to say, she tried it and splat!!

I don't think she is jealous, she just thinks there's something wrong with her. There is a skater who is obviously jealous of those better than her, she won't even talk to them, but DD asks the skater to help her and is like "I'm never gonna get it"

My dd had a lot of success with this, if nothing else it was inexpensive supervised practice.

If you think she's realistically only a Basic 3 mastery level, then a t-stop is quite advanced. Even through freestyle level you have kids who just drag their inside edges until there is stop (it's all about tilting the ankle to get the OUTSIDE edge to make the stop.) These are kids with axels. It's a tough concept to understand.

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

I agree with the notebook idea! We did that for a bit because I got frustrated when dd would ocme out and ask me what she should do! Plus, her coach would write things in her notebook also. Now we have a folder that her coach gave to each student with elements to practice and work on. That helps a lot! It also helps to make her sessions much more productive and I am far less frustrated. I've also learned to relax a lot more then I used to!

The advice of letting her have some down time is good. The GOOD thing about her making friends with other skaters, is that sometimes when they are playing around, they actually are learning because they try new things! I've also noticed that since my daughter has made more skating friends, they tend to play games on the ice. Sometimes they goof off and make up routines togehter, sometimes they help each other with jumps and spins and on occasion, I see them practicing moves together! These kids are sometimes the same level as dd but there are usually higher level and lower level kids with them too. It's fun to watch! They are being productive while having fun at that same time. Of coarse, there are still days when they are NOT being productive, but more and more it seems they are having fun AND being productive at the same time. Love that!

You seem like a good parent who is trying to help your daughter navigate her way through this sport. I agree in not getting caught up in comparisons. Your daughter needs to be proud of what she has acomplished in such a short time frame. Good luck to her!

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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven

I agree with this because, I think some kids are passed before they are truly ready to move up. I think "good enough" is ok sometimes, but you run into a problem when the same student decides they want to start private lessons and competing! Usually, being able to pass a level in LTS at "good enough" is not equal to competition ready(a skater must compete at the highest level passed. They can skate up one level, but not down). At my daughter's rink, some coaches will pass a student if they have the basic idea of what to do. Our sessions are 6 weeks long. Not many kids will master all skills in 6 weeks(esp once you move up to the higher levels). My daughter is still in the LTS program. She is also in private lessons. I like the LTS program because it gives her more ice time and the price is right! AND at the level she is at now(Freeskate 4 moving into 5), there are very few kids in her class. We've lucked out the last few sessions and have had her private coach for LTS. It's been nice because her private coach will not pass her unless she thinks she is ready to compete at that level. BTW... I don't mean she needs to be PERFECT to pass, just ready and capable to compete at that level. Anyway, I agree...quality is better. Don't rush and enjoy the sport. It's definately not a race!

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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven

If DD is in a USFS Basic Skills program and registered, she should have gotten a little booklet that lists the skills for each level with little star stickers to add when each one is learned. Maybe that would help her see how much she's learned already.

Me, I'd just emphasize that everyone learns at their own rate and there's no place she "should" be at any specific time. As long as she keeps learning and having fun, it's all good.

Both these are good ideas. I am an ADULT skater and have a notebook with practice sheets and comments from coaches about things to do/work on/fixes. it keeps pratice organized and productive.

There are a group of us at our rink that work with the same primary coach who play around and goof off once a week for awhile. Usually it's spin positions, MIF, and transition exercises and dances we work on together but sometimes it's jumps. It's fun it blows off steam, it helps to get different feedback...

yes she has that book!

Her coach has her in basic 3. Talked to her yesterday. Apparently backwards glides are holding her back. She can do pretty much any element up to basic 7 as long as it is forwards:spirals lunges attidutes crossovers privots, and some other things I can't remember. She freezes up as soon as she turns. The turns, as soon as she makes the turn she just lets herself slide to a stop.

Hi falen

In your dd's case, make sure that she practises on the much dreaded turns. It is very useful for progressing to a much higher level, in the future.

londonicechamp

Your dd should also just practice and get comfortable with basic backwards skills. Push off and coast backwards then progress to backward swing rolls, it's important not to lock up the knee as your glide will tend to stall and the edge will flatten out. The goal crease is a good tool when learning the turns as it gives you a rough guideline for the curve you should be one before and after the turn.

There are so many skills in B3-B7 that involve backward skating: 2-foot turns fwd to bkwd & bkwd to fwd; FI3s; FO3s; bk 1/2 swizzle pumps; BXOs; as well as BO & BI edges on the circle. That's a lot of elements that she has not mastered because of what sounds like a fear of backward skating. I'm sure her coach is working on this and only time plus mileage will help her to conquer it.

Does she have her own skates that fit properly with a decent blade? If she's still in rentals that might be a big part of her insecurity.

If she wants it, she'll work (& play) at it 'til she gets it. Good luck & much fun to her.

Thanks for the advice.

She definately is afraid of going backwards. She wears glasses so she really has no periferal vision that is clear. She is asking for contacts because she can't see well out of the corners of her eyes. I'm thinking maybe that is making her fearful...she doesn't see where she is going.

From personal experience, I doubt that wearing glasses is the problem, but also find skating with contacts is easier because of issues with sweat, slipping, and glasses flying off in spins.

There are lots of things that can impede progress with any given skill, and in a group lesson, the coach often does not have time to address them all with each student. I suggest you give your DD a few private lessons specifically to focus on backwards skating. Sometimes just having a spot while learning a "frightening" skill is all it takes to get over the fear and become comfortable with it.

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