skatingforums.com  

Go Back   skatingforums.com > Figure Skating > On Ice - Skaters

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-30-2008, 04:30 PM
xofivebyfive xofivebyfive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 430
Axel help

here is a video of my current axel attempts. I know I need to bring my leg through more but do you have any other advice for me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjFj7APmrYw
__________________
my experiences remind me that it's
those black clouds that make the
Goals: axel, 2sal, 2loop
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-30-2008, 08:11 PM
vesperholly vesperholly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
More through is not the problem here. Your free foot is passing by the skating foot, which is enough, and you're getting good rotation. The problem is as you kick through, you never go up. You've got a forceful kick, but all your momentum is shooting straight across, not upward. If you pause the video right before your left foot leaves the ice, you'll see that the bottom of your right skate is, max, at the same height as the top of your left boot. You can't achieve more height on the jump once you're in the air — it's all downhill from there.

So, to get more height, you need to bend the right knee and drive it upwards, so your thigh is parallel to the ice. Think about bouncing a ball off the top of your thigh. The bottom of your skate should be even with the bottom of your kneecap. This should give you more height, which will give you enough time to complete the rotation.

Very good attempts, though!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-30-2008, 08:37 PM
RachelSk8er RachelSk8er is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: the rink
Posts: 1,230
You have no problem with the rotation and landing, you just need to work on staying down in your L knee on the edge going into it and really driving the R knee up on the takeoff to get more height--basically, you've got the rotation and landing, you just need to put some muscle into it to get the height. A good off-ice drill to get the feeling down is to skip and focus on driving the knee up and getting as much height as you can. My coach teaches to not even think of rotation, just think of really driving the knee and getting up--if you had an imaginary flight of stairs, you don't want to start rotating until you get to the top of the flight. Then the rotation will just happen. I think on some of the attempts, you could keep your R shoulder back a tad longer, too.

I'm jealous Mine were really progressing but I haven't been on the ice in a week because my law school classes started so I couldn't make summer sessions any more and regular ice doesn't start until this week! It's hard to describe, but my coach teaches to do it with the L arm in front kind of bent in front of you (he has me in the same position going into a lutz but I'm obviously backward) to keep the R shoulder back, and the combination of that and driving the R leg up should feel like you're trying to jump through a narrow doorway--it feels awkward at first but now I actually am getting that down, I really get the height. Even though I've yet to land cleanly (mainly because I chicken out), it feels MUCH better than my somewhat successful "step forward, fling my body in the air and hope I land backwards on one foot" lack of technique that worked just fine for me when I was a kid before I quit freestyle.
__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Last edited by RachelSk8er; 08-30-2008 at 08:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-30-2008, 08:46 PM
vesperholly vesperholly is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelSk8er View Post
I think on some of the attempts, you could keep your R shoulder back a tad longer, too.
That's good advice. Holding the shoulder back will also help you to hold the F edge longer, which gives you more time to get that free leg travelling up.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-31-2008, 07:11 AM
patatty patatty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 131
One thing I noticed is that your takeoff is really curvy, and your shoulders are coming around a lot during the takeoff. My coach always emphasizes a really straight takeoff edge, with the shoulders parallel to the direction of skating, so that you take off straight, jump up, and then rotate. It gives a better "snap" and you can get more rotation (and crossed legs) that way. You really need to hold the takeoff edge until you can get a good knee bend too. It feels a little scary at first. I chicken out and rush the takeoff a lot, but when I can actually hold it, it really works.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-07-2008, 04:38 AM
peanutskates peanutskates is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 301
all this advice is really good, I think the mods should sticky it! I'm working on my axel right now, and this advice is exactly what I need..

My coach told me to swing my leg up and not focus on rotating, and that made such a difference. It felt easier, too. So definitely do that.
__________________
the toepick is your friend

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-07-2008, 09:35 PM
doubletoe doubletoe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,062
I notice the better ones were the ones you did from a standstill. That's because when you set up your axel from a mohawk entrance (on a half circle), you stayed on the same circle when stepping down onto your takeoff edge. If you do that, you will stay over your left side and you won't ever get backward over the right hip. Instead, you need to push OUT of the circle you're on. That will create the same T position between your right foot and left foot as when you push off onto the takeoff edge from a standstill. Does that make sense?

A few more things that should help:
- Arch your back as you push out onto the takeoff edge. That will help you get your weight over your takeoff knee and the ball of your takeoff foot. It will also keep you lined up over your hips so you'll feel secure on takeoff.
- Keep your free foot very still when you are on the takeoff edge (your position is correct: bent free leg with foot turned out like an attitude position)
- Hold your takeoff edge for a count of two, which is one beat longer than you are holding it now. I think "arch, straight, up!" because it gives me the right amount of time on the takeoff edge and also reminds me to arch my back and keep my edge straight instead of letting it curve around.
- As you lift up into the air, and start to transfer your weight to the right side, focus your attention on the shin of your right leg, just below the knee. That is the part of your leg that should be leading you into the jump, and that is where you should feel the calf of your other leg touch once you get backwards and pull in.
You are really close, so keep up the good work!
__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-07-2008, 09:56 PM
Isk8NYC Isk8NYC is offline
Board Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Below the Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 0
Takeoff from a deeper knee bend and control that entry edge - it's a bit too deep a curve.
Make sure you roll up to the toepick on takeoff (I can't tell if you are or not).
Lead with your left shoulder on takeoff - don't square your shoulders.
You're changing axes (from left to right side) but you're not aligning your upper body.
(In other words - tighter backspin position - you're a bit open in the air after the transition.
__________________
Isk8NYC
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-08-2008, 06:26 AM
patatty patatty is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isk8NYC View Post
Lead with your left shoulder on takeoff - don't square your shoulders..
It only took me 3 years to figure that one out. Like magic, my axels improved dramatically, and the takeoff edge feels so much more comfortable. My coach was always telling me to take off square, but I think that she was referring to the actual moment of takeoff, and not the step onto the takeoff edge. If you start the takeoff square, you sure won't be square by the time you leave the ice.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-08-2008, 05:08 PM
Pgh.Coach Pgh.Coach is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern U.S.
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isk8NYC View Post
Make sure you roll up to the toepick on takeoff (I can't tell if you are or not).
Lead with your left shoulder on takeoff - don't square your shoulders.
These are the two most common axel-related problems I see in the skaters I coach. Well, those and not bringing the free leg knee through and up enough.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-08-2008, 09:24 PM
Isk8NYC Isk8NYC is offline
Board Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Below the Mason-Dixon Line
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by patatty View Post
It only took me 3 years to figure that one out. Like magic, my axels improved dramatically, and the takeoff edge feels so much more comfortable. My coach was always telling me to take off square, but I think that she was referring to the actual moment of takeoff, and not the step onto the takeoff edge. If you start the takeoff square, you sure won't be square by the time you leave the ice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pgh.Coach View Post
These are the two most common axel-related problems I see in the skaters I coach. Well, those and not bringing the free leg knee through and up enough.
The free leg isn't the problem in this video, but the shoulders are holding her back.

Another thing that I've noticed in certain rinks is that the kids don't use their arms very much - they just fling them from side (not behind) to in front and wrap 'em across.

I thought it might be related to the newer technique of using a skid entrance, but I'm not sure. To me, it's a bit ugly, but I was taught the fireman's pole axis change, so what do I know?
__________________
Isk8NYC
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-08-2008, 09:29 PM
Kim to the Max Kim to the Max is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Either at work or at the rink!
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isk8NYC View Post
I thought it might be related to the newer technique of using a skid entrance, but I'm not sure. To me, it's a bit ugly, but I was taught the fireman's pole axis change, so what do I know?
There is a running joke between myself, coach and one of the other coaches our age at the rink about "being the pole" and about poles that are not entirely family friendly....it is quite funny when we get on a role....oftentimes it ends up with me on the ice laughing hysterically....too bad I am not usually "one with the pole" and my axels suffer because of it...
__________________
Skating Dreams

"All your life you are told the things you cannot do. All your life they will say you're not good enough or strong enough or talented enough; they will say you're the wrong height or the wrong weight or the wrong type to play this or be this or achieve this. THEY WILL TELL YOU NO, a thousand times no, until all the no's become meaningless. All your life they will tell you no, quite firmly and very quickly. AND YOU WILL TELL THEM YES." --Nike

Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-09-2008, 05:08 AM
Pgh.Coach Pgh.Coach is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Eastern U.S.
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isk8NYC View Post
The free leg isn't the problem in this video, but the shoulders are holding her back.

Another thing that I've noticed in certain rinks is that the kids don't use their arms very much - they just fling them from side (not behind) to in front and wrap 'em across.
No, her free leg is fine in the video. I was just making a comment in general about what I tend to see in other skaters.

And, I completely agree about the flinging arms! No wonder we see so many shoulder problems on the entrance, such as the right shoulder creeping around on CCW jumpers. I tell my skaters to think of bowling on the entrance; bowling in the sense of bringing a bowling ball back prior to rolling it and holding their right side behind with the left side leading. A master-rated coach showed me this example and for kids who have gone bowling, they seem to understand the concept pretty well.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-09-2008, 07:07 AM
RachelSk8er RachelSk8er is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: the rink
Posts: 1,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim to the Max View Post
There is a running joke between myself, coach and one of the other coaches our age at the rink about "being the pole" and about poles that are not entirely family friendly....it is quite funny when we get on a role....oftentimes it ends up with me on the ice laughing hysterically....too bad I am not usually "one with the pole" and my axels suffer because of it...

Ha ha my (straight, single male) coach uses that too....my usual response..."I'm not like the girls you date!"
__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-09-2008, 07:40 AM
Kim to the Max Kim to the Max is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Either at work or at the rink!
Posts: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelSk8er View Post
Ha ha my (straight, single male) coach uses that too....my usual response..."I'm not like the girls you date!"
Nice...

I am thinking about getting t-shirts made up that say, "Be the Pole"...
__________________
Skating Dreams

"All your life you are told the things you cannot do. All your life they will say you're not good enough or strong enough or talented enough; they will say you're the wrong height or the wrong weight or the wrong type to play this or be this or achieve this. THEY WILL TELL YOU NO, a thousand times no, until all the no's become meaningless. All your life they will tell you no, quite firmly and very quickly. AND YOU WILL TELL THEM YES." --Nike

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-12-2008, 07:25 AM
RachelSk8er RachelSk8er is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: the rink
Posts: 1,230
Yesterday I worked with my personal trainer, who is wonderful, and despite knowing very little about figure skating, he had me doing one of THE BEST off-ice axel drills I've done.

If your gym has a small platform about a foot to a foot and a half off the ground (about the height of a tall step) that is a metal frame on the bottom, like these:

http://www.shapeupshop.com/plyometri...r_plyo_box.htm

and some of those long bungee cords with handles on the ends....

http://www.shapeupshop.com/bands_bal...versa_tube.htm

Loop the bungee under the bottom of the platform on the side so that you can hold on to both handles with one hand...if you jump R handed, you'll want them on the L side of the platform. Hold both handles in your L hand, and put your L foot on the platform. Then focus on bringing the rest of your body up by driving your R knee and really scooping and pulling up with your R arm, just like you're taking off for an axel....hold at the top for a second and lower yourself back down so your R side is back on the floor. Repeat 10x. He had me also do this on the other side just to keep things even (crazy how much easier it is for me to balance doing this the way I do axels).

My coach has basically had me do the same thing using the curb at our rink, but having the bungees in the other hand to provide some resistance was a really good--you really had to focus on driving the knee up much more. The whole driving the knee up AND using my R arm has kind of been one of my downfalls and I really think this helped me get the feel--it will be interesting to see if there is any improvement when I skate tomorrow!
__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2002 - 2005 skatingforums.com. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2002 Graphics by Dustin. May not be used without permission.
Posts may not be reproduced without the first obtaining the written consent of the poster.