I'm surprised the judges/callers at Oberstdorf gave credit for pairs elements not on their points list. They certainly didn't do that for the singles skaters. In fact, I remember I was watching an official warm up for Bronze men, and I watched one man do several waltz jumps in a row at one point, and one of the officials came up to me and said, "We think waltz jumps are very beautiful but they don't get any points. Would you please help spread the word? They're very beautiful, though!"

I think there will have to be some adjustments for the lower levels at some point in the code of points scoring system, but obviously they're not here yet. So you only have to worry about it right now if you're planning to do Oberstdorf, unless you're a gold skater or higher.

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August 22, back on the ice!

damn it, the 2 spin passes minimum on the silver level didn't go through... I guess I have to stick that final back scratch somewhere or attitude spin..

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Tim David's Website

Yay, report is up.
http://usfsa.org/event_story.asp?id=34325

Lovepairs, check out bottom of p. 12 for adult pairs info. (ETA: and pp. 36-37 for well-balanced program requirments for pairs FS.)
Loops, pivot position not required in silver pairs!

Addendum A (Adult Skating) begins on p. 34 (so glad to see that "three" instead of "two" for spin requirements in adult silver singles ).

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Interesting. I just now noticed that the new WBP requirements for Bronze have outlawed flying spins. I didn't even notice that in the addendum that was posted prior to GC, but whatever, I think that's a good idea. Of course, as with the rule change last year that disallowed lutzes in Pre-Bronze, not every skater and/or their coach may actually learn about or follow the rule (see my post in the May Day thread). But it's a step in the right direction.

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

And the time for gold pairs went up to 3:40!!!! Gulp. With the same WBP requirements as masters pairs... hmm, might have to stay in silver after all.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

Yay! I've always thought that flying spins shouldn't be allowed at Bronze (uhm, aren't they from the Gold FS test anyway?) so I agree 100% with this decision.

No, not even! Intermediate FS I believe.

As with Debbie S, I was not expecting or prompting this rule change, but I think it's reasonable.

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Whatever!

Was there a difference between Gold Pairs and Master Pairs requirements before? OR did gold pairs stay the same and Championship gold pairs get the master pair time and WBP requirements? You can see how good I am with the rules. Also, it says that champ. gold pairs will have same requirements as gold pairs--does that mean a silver skater and a gold skater can still compete?
Thanks to anyone who knows the rules.

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Careygram

January: Sure I'll compete, quick, send the application
April: I signed up to do WHAT??

There was a pretty big difference between gold and masters pairs for the past two years (since the bronze/silver/gold WBP were established). Gold was 3:10 and masters was 3:40, and both are now 3:40. And for gold, the overhead lifts allowed were limited to platter, forward press, and two-handed star, with one-handed lifts, no-handed lifts, no combination lifts prohibited... There were no lift limits in masters, and that now applies to gold as well.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

Hey DC (smooches!),
The championship pairs event states that the qualification is as set forth by the existing adult masters pair requirements (rule 4110) and adult gold pair
requirements. (rule 4120). According to this, a silver level skater can skate with a gold level skater in the championship pairs event. Kinda nifty.

BUT, the original proposal stated that the adult gold level is the minimum level for this event.

I wonder if this was an oversight or if the minimum really is gold for all. I know there was some behind-the-scenes lobbying to adopt the previous gold apirs requirement. Would be good to know ...

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Not too wild about the championship pairs. Don't really see the point now - it will be the same people and event for championship and regular, (as we are not currently divided in age groups) just smaller. There's so few pairs that it will decrease the numbers in the regular event as well as the championship event. It just means you have to do another event (sectionals)to "qualify". It would be a sad case if one of the events did not have enough to compete.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

I'm remembering some discussion about this, and the fact that if both partners were required to have passed gold, it would prevent some teams currently skating gold from competing in the championship pairs event, and that wasn't the intention. So, I think it was changed as you quoted, and no oversight.

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August 22, back on the ice!

I'm a little miffed over this change, as I currently have a flying camel in my Bronze FS program that will now have to be removed.

I guess I'll just have to put it in my new interp program (if flying spins are allowed there - I'm new to interp, so I'm not sure).

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I've got mad salchow disease!

Okay so then my last thought is this--say you go to sectionals to qualify for ch. gold and you don't but you're allowed to compete in gold pairs with no QR--you'll have to have a different (meaning 30 seconds shorter) program for non-qualifying? Even if it's the same music and everything it's still like having to have two programs. Aw MAN.
Thanks everyone and smooches back baby cakes!
Deb

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Careygram

January: Sure I'll compete, quick, send the application
April: I signed up to do WHAT??

I thought the time was a max of 3:40 for both.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

Sounds like you are a very strong skater and would do great in Silver!

Good point, Flo...the Championship Pairs will just be another Gold Pairs event with the Master Pairs mixed in. There is nothing really rigorous, or competitive about it now. Just another example of the USFSA not believing that Adult Skaters can handle the rigor of testing and competition.

Okay, having said that I'm very happy for the Gold Pair teams who fought to have the qualifications changed for the Championship event, and won the amendment! If that's what it says, Nova, then, yes, it is true that one Gold team member can bring along their Silver Partner into the Pairs Championship event.

To all Pair Teams: I will be posting a "One-Stop-Shopping" shortly in the "News" section of:www.adultpairskating.com (should be up by tonight) where you can find Code of Points, Info on the Championship Pairs Event, and Well-Balanced amendments for all level of Adult Pair Skating.

The point of having the championship pairs event was because every other discipline--men and ladies singles and dance--has a championship event. I, too, think that there's no real point to having it now, but ya gotta start somewhere. And, eek, if they hadn't followed the current gold pairs rule? That would have meant that the current gold pairs champs--Judy & Paul--would not be allowed to compete in the championship event (she has passed gold free, but he has only passed silver FS).

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Nova
I'll have to say I agree totally with Lovepairs !!!!! (but of course )

The making of the USFSA Championship Pairs should not revolve around qualifying one particular team!!!!
You are presuming that their testing level is static and will never change. The entry deadline is sometime in early January. It's now May. A challenge, yes, impossible, no!


On a general note, there is a lot that is convoluted in the Championship pair event qualifications and I know that the intented arrangement for the 06-07season is only to bridge over to the following year when they will again be modified; lets hope.

Actually, i can think of at least 3 teams who would have been adversely affected by the rule not allowing one of the partners to be silver level. I was just providing the most prominent example.

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

It's tough to figure out what should be the qualifying tests for Championship Pairs, I think, because freestyle tests are also used as qualifiers for the open events, and many of the pairs skaters also compete in singles. For example, neither NoVa nor I have taken any pairs tests at all; we qualify for silver pairs through our silver FS tests. And for that matter, last year's gold pairs champions hadn't taken any pairs tests either; they were both legitimate gold-level FS skaters.

If we were to try to compete in gold pairs next year, there are multiple ways we could qualify: we could test preliminary and juvenile pairs, which would only require one program as the preliminary pair test is an elements-only test, like pre-pre or pre-bronze FS. Second option: I've passed gold MIF, so I could test gold pairs, but that would require taking *three* pairs tests, as I'd have to take the bronze and silver tests first. Not that I couldn't pass them, but each test has a different time limit and different elements required, which would mean, functionally, learning and practicing three different programs just for testing. Or, third option: one (or both) of us could try to pass the gold FS test, which would also put us into gold pairs, but would also force us into competing in gold FS, which I know *I'm* not ready for.

If the intent is to have only the pairs tests used as qualifications for pairs events, I think there should be some leeway given in the testing. Perhaps if a team has already competed at a certain level, they should be able to take any lower-level tests by just doing the required elements and not a program. Or putting together a "program" without music.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

There are many pairs that do not have pair tests or are at different levels. This does not seem to be much of a problem as we see how these pairs do in competitions. One of the committee members was horrified that when I competed in masters pairs I had a bronze fs, yet I had juvenile pair test. My partner had no pairs tests, but a gold fs. We were well matched and ended up 2nd over pairs with intermediate pair tests. So, I don't think it's a big deal to allow pairs with different tests, or those of us who have been in it for a while with no pair tests.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

Well herein lies the problem: there are no "pairs" elements in freestyle tests, such as lifts, pair spins, or death spirals. Anyone who has skated pairs even knows that doing the s-b-s single element including footwork and spiral sequences becomes a totally different animal when done with another person. So, why should passing a freestyle test that has none of the above in it qualify one to compete in pairs?

I've said this before and have had tomatoes thrown at my computer screen, but I'll say it, again: I'm not allowed to compete in dance with a freestyle test, I have to pass my "dance" tests. I would like to argue that the "dance patterns" are just as specific to dance, as the "pair elements" are to pair skating. Plus there is one big pairs element that I forgot to mention that is very unique to pairs and that's Synchronization. I don't believe you have to work on that when you are skating alone, at least, not the last time I looked.

Based on the way I skated in Bronze at AN this year (last place in Bronze I), I'd get eaten alive in Silver

The flying camel just happens to click with me, especially over the last 3 weeks or so. I'm hoping I can transfer some of that to the back camel.

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I've got mad salchow disease!

But I think that pairs has more in common with singles freeskating than it does with dance. Also, the dance tests have more than just skating skills attached to them: They also have set patterns.

Synchronization, of course, is important in pairs, and I think that Loops and I--who have never taken a pairs test--have this worked out pretty well.

I think a better argument would be that of safety. Let's have pair tests to ensure that the pairs skaters have passed a minimum of training instead of "signing up for fun" (as if pairs skaitng is fun ).
I, for one, am happy that there are several ways to qualify to skate pairs. It's hard enough finding teams to compete against. I can only imagine how that would be if the hurdle were further refined to include pairs tests.

On a semi-related note, I'm glad that throw triples are not permitted in the championship pairs event!

Tomato-friendly yours,
ST

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.