Chico, you can still have a go! I did a few Pairs lessons and I loved it, I only stopped because, well, erm, I'm not awfully sure ...... I quoted something that he'd said on here and he didn't like it (despite the fact that I'd never said anything but good about him and had HUGE amount of respect for him). I always had the feeling that there was something else going on that I didn't know about You don't dump somebody for one thing that they've said do you? Anyway ..... that's another thread I guess.

My point is ..... why not give it a go?

Have a good weekend everyone




Lx

__________________

The best whisper is a click

Maybe Chico is as much of a coward as I am - I hate pairs! Actually, much less than I did, maybe I like them more than I thought I did - I am happy enough with our pivot-spiral now, but haven't yet dared a death-drop. Sadly, I was off the ice on the day when all the pairs stayed on the ice after Camp at the Mountain Cup and worked on their death spirals - I could have had a go then, they didn't look that difficult. But Robert says he's not strong enough to lift me (we've tried, but not on-ice), and I don't know what we'll do about lifts for our free dance in October. And we will NOT TALK about our pairs/dance spin..... but we have managed 2 revolutions, once.....

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Then they must have been doing them well or had excellent instruction, because I can assure you're they harder than they look. The man has to have just the right amount of curve to his pivot; he has to ease the lady out at just the right rate of speed. The lady has to be in just the right postition relative to the man -- not too far in front, not too far behind him; she has to twist her hips about 30 degrees more than God says she should (at least that's what it feels like); she has to fight gravity AND centrifugal force to stay on the correct edge. And assuming they manage all that, then together they have to reverse it all to make sure she can rise up without getting jerked or flung like a rag doll.

So have a go at it! Hee hee.

Omg, pairs is SO much fun! Definetly try it if you ever get the chance- you will never regret the experience!!

__________________
~Sk8Bunny~
-----------------------------------------------
"I know you can be overwhelmed, and you can be underwhelmed, but can you ever just be whelmed?"

So, then the dancers should skate on their own blasted sessions. Seriously, I think it's a really bad idea to have freestyle skaters and dancers on the same session. It's dangerous and too many dancers have that attitude of "I must keep on pattern even if it means running people down." I know you have your patterns to follow, but you can't expect everyone else to get out of your way every single time; they won't get anything done and they paid for the ice, too. I know not every rink has separate freestyle and dance sessions, but we do around here and yet some coaches insist on teaching dance on low freestyle sessions or on open freestyle sessions. I don't go running over to the dance sessions to pracctice my jumps, after all! I think a serious accident is only a matter of time. In fact, one of these dance coaches DID knock a girl over and unconscious on a freestyle session one morning!

If an Olympic silver medalist (in dance) can be gracious to me and even apologize for getting in my way during my program , you'd think the regular dancers and coaches could do that, too. And especially when I try very hard to show them the courtesy of space when they need it as well. Many are very careful, but some...

Sorry for digressing from the original topic, but this is a hot button for me. On the original topic, I always find I skate faster when I'm skating with higher level skaters and that's a good thing for me!

Pat

I'm starting to get bold and not stop unless another skater is 3 or 4 inches from me. It cost me though at Ann Arbour Spring Skating's practices session where a Junior Competitive Level skater slammed into me while I was spinning and I hit my tailbone. Just Thursday on Ticket Ice I just about jumped on to this Junior Competitive Level skater who was going to try to skate around me when I was going into a split jump while he was on his lesson. Now he already knew my skating path because I went by there 15 times before the same way because it's part of my program. I stopped mid take off and just laughed while he was relieved that I didn't hit him. I had some nice speed going into the split jump too.

But when there are little ones on the ice who are skating preprelim, prelim and junior bronze, I'm much more careful because my mother instinct takes control and I always stop because I just can't bring myself to hurt one of these little ones. I mean if I were to ever crash into one of them, I might kill them. Plus just for safty sake with little ones on the ice, you never know where they will go because one minute they will be practicing what their coach wants them to practice and the next they are playing tag not watching where they are going. Plus they tend to wipe out alot and they are shorter so you have to look down towards the ice so that you want skate over them and trip.

__________________
"It's not age that determines but the heart." "Skating is not just a sport for the young but it's a passion for the soul of the young at heart." Brigitte Laskowski

I am a nomadic adult skater who is a member of Windsor FSC (Skate Windsor) WOS SC again since Sept. 1st, 2008.

http://eastcastlemusic.tripod.com

Singerskates Sports Music Editing

In my youth, I belonged to a club that had a two-hour session. Every half-hour, the session switched from Freestyle to Dance. If you were doing Dance on a freestyle session, you had to yield to Freestylists, so dancers worked on moves rather than patterns. If you were a freestyle skater, you had to stay right in the middle during the Dance session. One night, I decided to follow the dancers! It was really good for my skating in general, and made me appreciate Dance more.

The Dance sessions were funny, though: they had 30 minute cassettes with someone's ex-husband announcing each dance in a monotone voice. My non-skater husband, to this day, mimics the "Dutch Waltz. Dutch Waltz." announcements anytime someone mentions ice dancing. It was effective for managing the session: no one had to juggle tapes and when the tape ran out, Dance was over.

I really miss that Club. Too bad it folded.

It can be intimidating -- I sympathize with you. I found that staking out a little corner at first is helpful. Most skaters have some pattern to where they want to place their jumps and spins. (Except the ones that are really looking for attention -- they want you to be their audience.)

During a freestyle (and even during a less-crowded public) session, you can usually find an out-of-the-way spot to practice without distraction. Make sure you're not on a session with skaters that are too advanced. Many rinks have high and low freestyles -- mainly for safety. You can also try different sessions. We used to have a wonderful Wednesday Night session, but the Saturday mornings were scary with crazy, inconsiderate skaters.

Several posters mentioned watching others to figure out their patterns. This only works if the other skater isn't looking for attention. I will suggest saying "sorry" and "Heads Up" if you cut someone off. Too many kids today refuse to apologize, even when it's their fault.

I usually have to stop and watch because I'm too tired to keep going!

Me too! I'm exactly like that and it annoys my coaches too. Even if I'm in a lesson, I always feel like I have to yield to other skaters. Even if there's actually room for both of us to get past, I have to stop what I'm doing till I've got ample space again. My coaches jokingly say I should elbow the other skater out of the way, lol. I've always been like that though - even when I did gymnastics, I had to have lots of room before I'd do something - I felt uncomfortable doing e.g. a cartwheel if there was anyone standing within about 5 feet of me. I was always scared of kicking someone, even though there was probably no chance that I would have. (I got kicked in the face once by someone going into a handstand.)

On the ice though, no matter if I'm in a lesson or setting up for something/in the middle of an element or pattern, it's always me that moves for the other skater. Can't help it. Some of the other skaters always assume they've got right of way anyway.

Back to the original topic though - I can totally sympathise with feeling inferior to other higher-level skaters. I very often feel like that too. Sometimes, I can be practicing something like a 1 foot spin and be fine, concentrating etc, but then someone else comes on and starts doing much more advanced elements like camels or something, and I immediately feel uncomfortable and feel stupid if I carry on practicing my pathetic excuse for spins. I know I shouldn't, but I do.

__________________
"It’s never too late to skate at any age." - Alexei Mishin.

Yes they are!!! I've had a go at them and they ARE NOT as easy as they look ..... you end up polishing the ice quite a few times

Why not try an 'Old Man's Death Spiral' (trademark Lynne & Will)?



You skate into it CCW backwards, he goes into pivot on a RBO edge with left toe in the ice, he holds your right hand in his right hand, you lift your left leg up and he grabs your boot/blade so that you're in a 'sortasplits' position (this can be as 'splits' or as non splits as you want) .... do what you want with your left hand/arm.

It's not that easy to see from the pic but he's got my left foot in his left hand. It's a GREAT feeling and not that difficult.

Lx

__________________

The best whisper is a click

You don't have to be a kid to try pairs. I started skating at 30, and started skating pairs at 38. My partner was 39 when we started. The throws are fun, and the lifts are fun too when they go right. It's a lot of fun to work together and try to skate as one. It's much harder than it looks, but it's worth it. We suck at it, but we have a blast!

This is certainly a thread which is close to my heart!

One of the session I skate at was until recently a great session to train at and is the only non-first-thing-in-the-morning session I can get to. Unfortunately it has recently been subject to a large influx of lower level skaters who have absolutely no concept of what a freestyle session is for. We have groups of skaters who congregate in groups chatting, others who work on their crossovers on the hockey circles in the jump corners! and others who are just generally oblivious to anything else that is happening on the ice. Most annoyingly of all when their actions inconvenience those skaters who are actually trying to train, they do not seem to learn from it. I have started my programme and had to stop because of someone being in the way at a vital point, restarted and then still had them in the way a second time. Once is readily forgivable but twice in immediate succession isn't. Even more surprisingly this doesn't only apply to young kids. We have beginner adults with absolutely no awareness of what else is happening on the ice. Unfortunately the coaches at this particular rink are abysmal at enforcing any kind of rules on freestyle sessions, and this particular session has been worst affected by this.

I have to absolutely disagree with the poster who advocated staking out a patch of ice to work on. More advanced skaters need to use the whole ice surface and there is nothing more annoying than someone persistently being in the one bit of ice that you need to use for a jump set up, a dance or whatever. It doesn't matter what level you are if you are on a freestyle session you should be using the entire ice surface and in fact you will be less in the way by doing so. (It will also make you a better skater - there is no advantage whatsoever to only skating in 1/8 of the rink). Of course this requires you to have some awareness of the other skaters, but if you are on a freestyle session you should have this anyway. Staking out your patch of ice then blithely ignoring everything else which is going on, thinking that you are out of the way is not being considerate to other skaters. (this isn't a dig at Isk8NYC - I realise that I have exaggerated greatly what he/she was suggesting but not beyond what I have witnessed on the ice).

One other point to make is that someone mentioned that dancers are unable to move their pattern three feet to one side to accomodate someone who is in the way, but it is often overlooked that this applies equally to higher level freeskaters. If you watch a skater working on a jump you will see that the tracings from repeated attempts are often within inches of one another. The precise positioning of the jump and it's entire setup is just as important for a freestyler as the placement of a pattern is for a dancer.

With regards to the original post I think the bottom line is that higher level skaters are unconcerned by what level the other skaters on the ice are at, but all skaters suffer when skaters of any level don't use the ice with due consideration for eachother.

John

Cool picture lynne. =-)

I'm not a chicken gal. I used to give my old coach heart attacks trying some skills. I sorta sprung 2 loops on him. =-) I'm too brave for my own good sometimes. I don't think fear would hold me back on pairs. If I want something enough I'm stupid enough to try.

I'm a mom and a married gal. (happily) Anyhow, I find time to practice singles a challenge some days. My husband would NOT like me skating pairs with anyone. I can understand this. I'm happy with doing singles and watching the pairs. I did skate with my old coach on an occasion and had fun doing so. I got a taste. =-)

Chico

__________________
"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

Just wanted to add ....

If you are a lower level skater, you can help faster skaters a lot to predict your movements, if you maintain speed and direction, and look in the direction you are going.

There is nothing more aggravating (for a faster skater) than spotting a slower skater from miles off, making allowances for them, and then suddenly finding that they make an abrupt change of direction or speed as you approach near (often because they are being scared-y), so that you have to suddenly put on the brakes and abort what you are doing.

And please, please, be aware of whose music is playing. I was recently on a patch with just three people, when one lower level adult skater consistently got in my way when I was on the music (not intentionally, just by not paying attention, and by dithering about). It was very difficult to keep that fixed smile in place, I can tell you. And if you are not skating, *please* get off the ice!! Don't stand aimlessly four feet from the barrier in a dream, wondering what you are going to do next.

Anybody done any driving in a sheepfarming area? Well, please don't behave like those sheep who suddenly decide to (a) stop crossing the road and stop still in front of your car or (b) change direction in a mass and start trotting along down the road in front of your car, or whatever ....

Our ice was packed out this morning as there is a competition this evening, and I found it very difficult. Robert and I abandoned our normal warm-up routine, as the elite dancers were going around with their usual abandon, plus all the kids who are usually still safely in bed at that hour on a Sunday morning! We had one collision when we were running through our programme - fortunately we both stayed upright, and I was able to carry on as though nothing had happened - and at least once had to abandon the one bit of our programme we were practising as there kept being children in that corner, until our coach went and stood there. But this is fairly normal for us, mixed sessions, mixed abilities - we seem to manage, whatever! If in doubt, "Oh, sorry!" helps......

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I have a similar problem to both you and CanAmSkater. It's spring school here, and the ice is PACKED. Although the sessions are divided up by ability (Intermediate, Senior/High Performance), that is really just more of a guideline. We skate whenever it works for our coaches. So I am considered HP (working on my last gold dance...testing it next week), but I skate Wednesday nights on an Intermediate freestyle session. I'm not the only one; there are a couple of skaters out there working on Sr. Silver dances and Jr. Silver skills (like me), as well. When I'm running through the dance (the Westminster) by myself at the start of my lesson, I am dodging people left, right, and center. It's like an obstacle course. Some kids see you coming and can get out of the way, some know me and know what I'm working on so they move, and some coaches are oblivious to the world around them. But most of the time, I end up adjusting my pattern because I am a strong enough skater to make adjustments to get out of their way, and get back on my pattern. It is easier for me to move than to try and guess if they are going to or not.

When I'm partnering the dance with my coach, we are much less lenient. We have the right of way, and it's way harder to get two people to make adjustments. However, we are also easier to notice coming when it is the two of us skating the dance.

The other night I was at the rink for a meeting, and stayed afterward to pick up some extra ice. It was on a HP freestyle session, but the club doesn't have stiff restrictions about dancers being out there. I got really frustrated after a while with so many people out there; however, I kept in mind that I wasn't in a lesson, I was a dancer on a freestyle session, and I had just picked up the ice, not registered for it. But although I don't think I was justified in having the right of way at any point, it would be nice if some of the skaters would show some courtesy once in a while and make an allowance so I could get one freaking pattern completed.

One other point...I think it is much easier for me to move when I am doing forward skating, turns, edges, etc., and can be moving my head to see what's coming...than for a freeskater who's skating backwards at a high speed, trying to set up that perfect timing to hit a triple jump. And I think I also find it easier to make adjustments from my synchro background. I find it very easy to contort my body into odd positions and just keep skating.

__________________
~No thinking, breathing, or hesitation!~

A couple of things come into play. Many adults at low levels have an acute peripheral vision sense so that anything within 15 feet feels like you will be in their way. It can take years to lesson that vision radius and feel comfortable doing something. It used to drive my coach nuts too when I would stop if I felt someone was getting too close to me as I did not feel I had the fast reflexes necessary to get out of the way of a high speed skater.

After awhile you do get to know who on the ice is also aware of skaters around them and who is not. You learn to avoid the 'nots.'

Being intimidated is part of being a newbie - I remember hugging the walls for years except in lesson. As your skating confidence grows, you will expand your skating circle.

Obviously the types of skaters, numbers of skaters and coaches on the ice, makes a huge difference from session to session. I stopped going to one session as I counted 42 on the ice (with 16 coaches) and so many young ones that only have eyes for their coach and fail to even look right or left as they skate back to the boards.

The best thing our rink finally instituted was a neon-orange pullover stretchy vest that the person doing their program to music must wear. When the vests wear out or 'disappear' you really understand how valuable they are. I wish one of the skating companies (clothes, assessories) would sell them. Our home made ones just don't last. If a company does sell them, please post it!

What, you think I choose to skate on freestyle? No way . If my rink offered dance-only session none of us would skate freestyles. But we can hardly afford to keep having freestyle sessions, let alone separate ones for the 5 or 6 non-elite dancers we have. I'm lucky that I can skate during school hours and it's usually me, a pair team, and sometimes another dancer or two at my level on the ice. I avoid after-school sessions at all costs; that's when I run into problems. I don't want to think about what's going to happen next week when the kids are out of school... luckily a lot of our beginners take from two of the skaters I train with so at least they're not usually on the ice when we are. It's not a matter of "I must keep on pattern if it means running people down"... it's a matter of "I paid for this ice too, my music is on, and since I'm sure as heck not going to get through a pattern without stopping for somebody when my music ISN'T on, I expect that when my music is on, people will move". I move for the freeskaters on program, they need to move for me when I'm doing music. I expect that when I'm doing a new dance, or sharing the ice with someone who doesn't know the higher dances there will be near misses and I may have to stop occasionally, but it shouldn't happen on a regular basis with the same skater or two.

Speaking of the attitudes of dancers/freestylers, has anyone else run into the attitude of "I don't have to move, he/she's only doing dance?" I used to get that a lot at my first rink- luckily, with the caliber of dancers that train at my rink now, NOBODY says anything like that! Well, one of my friends does, but he only says it to bug me

__________________
Shae-Lynn and Victor: We knew you were champions, and on 3/28/03 the whole WORLD found out! Thank you for twelve wonderful years!

I haven't run into that explicitly, but that's certainly what it feels like most of the time. However, much of it is just teenagers with attitude, also. I've only been skating regularly at this rink since September, and I didn't skate with this club last summer. Most of the skaters at this club have been there a long time, and I get the "Who the hell is she?" feeling a lot. So it doesn't help that on top of that, I'm only working on dance and skills. Most of the coaches know me because I have kind of a reputation--in a good way, lol. I'm "That girl who was working on her prelim dances last May!" And a number of the skaters do for that reason also. However, even though I've been skating longer than most of those kids have been alive, I still feel intimidated by the free skaters because I have never been a free skater myself.

__________________
~No thinking, breathing, or hesitation!~

As a last resort I can give them a nasty paper cut with my AARP card or trip them with my walker!!

__________________
Keeping School Figures Alive!!

Can we get those walkers on blades?

Neon orange vests work really well. One of the rinks my daughter skates at uses orange mesh vests. They are adult sized so the kids take the front corners, cross them, pull tight and tie a big knot. I've also seen wide colored belts used for the person whose music is being played. They are very visible on some costumes but disappear into others.

Here most of the ice time is for hockey so we don't have separate dance, pairs, freestyle or moves session or sessions grouped by test levels. The person with the vest whose music is playing has the right of way. When the fastest skaters are wearing the vest, the slowest ones tend to stay at the boards or even get off the ice for a water break.

Well here we DO have dance only sessions, and yet we have coaches teaching higher level dancers on low freestyle sessions, at times.
I wasn't talking about YOU specifically. And I will say that it doesn't seem to matter to SOME people WHOSE music is on. I have been nearly run down a number of times by dancers whose music was NOT on. And in fact, that's happened to me when I am IN A LESSON WITH MY COACH and MY MUSIC IS ON and they STILL don't get out of the way.

I have never heard anyone say that.

I think the problem is a lack of common courtesy by some, certainly not all, people. All I ask is a bit of consideration in return for showing it. And I don't think it's too much to ask if a coach or dancer (it's more rare that the freestylers do this, but it does happen) should please get out of my way if you're just meandering across the ice and I'm trying to do my program.

End of rant.