Dd just passed Freeskate/Freestyle 1(USFSA) and I was looking at the curriculum for Freestyle/freeskate 2 and a waltz 3 is on the the list. What is that? I've googled it trying to see what it is and can't find the answer. Thanks!

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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven

It's a three turn done to a count - 3 counts on the entry edge, turn and 3 counts on the exit edge. Here's the official directions from the Basic Skills Instructor's Manual:

Waltz threes (RFO & LFO): While moving on a circle, the body positions during the turns will be held firmly in an extended free skating position. Note: The waltz threes will be done with an extended free leg throughout the turn. The entrance edge and the exit edge of the three-turn will be held three times the skater's height.

Interesting, it doesn't mention anything about timing. I was taught these to a count, and I think it helps.

Well, there are three different types of waltz threes. These descriptions are taken from the U.S. Figure Skating rulebook.

American Waltz Type Three: A three-turn from an outside edge in which the free leg is extended and the toe and hip are well turned out and held over the tracing. The instep of the free foot is drawn close to the heel of the skating foot as the turn is made. After the turn onto an inside edge, the free foot is extended back of the tracing before being brough back beside the skating foot in time for the next step.

Eurpoean Waltz Type Three: A three-turn which begins as in [the American Waltz three] with the free leg extended over the tracing and left behind during the turn, and swings through after its completion in front of the tracing, before being brough back beside the skating foot in time for the next step.

Ravensburger Waltz Type Three: An inside three-turn which begins as in [the American Waltz three] with the free leg extended over the tracing and left behind during the turn, and swings through after its completion in front of the tracing, before being brought back beside the skating foot in time for the next step.

I'd suspect that at your daughter's level, the turn is similar to the American Waltz three. I'd ask your daughter's coach just to be sure.

Thank you! I'd suspect it is like the first also. So, this is a dance move? Or is it considered a foot work sequence? I'll have to ask her private coach to go over it with her before she starts her LTS class. Thank-you!

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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven

The threes I described are typically used in dance; however, you can create footwork sequences by stringing together any number of steps and turns, which can include a variety of three-turns.

Thanks again. What was funny about me hunting down a "waltz 3" to find out what it was last night, was that I was looking for a jump! LOL. Then as I looked further, I got to thinking that it might be a dance move or footwork of some kind. Thanks again for clearing that up for me. I appreciate it.

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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven

Yes, it's a dance move, but for Basic Skills all they really want to do is see good control of the edges and the turn. Note that the Basic Skills manual says the free leg stays extended throughout the turn - that's different from the American Waltz where the foot is brought in as the turn is made then extended again. She'll need them for her Waltz Eight in Free Skate 3, which is a Move in the Field.

Thanks! Which level of MIF is that move in? I keep wondering when dd's coach will want her to start testing. I am guessing not for awhile, which is FINE with me. LOL!

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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven

The Waltz-8 is on the pre-preliminary test, which is the first Moves in the Field test skaters take. The test also includes strokes (CW and CCW), basic edges (inside, outside, and left and right), and straight line spirals.

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Skating Dreams

"All your life you are told the things you cannot do. All your life they will say you're not good enough or strong enough or talented enough; they will say you're the wrong height or the wrong weight or the wrong type to play this or be this or achieve this. THEY WILL TELL YOU NO, a thousand times no, until all the no's become meaningless. All your life they will tell you no, quite firmly and very quickly. AND YOU WILL TELL THEM YES." --Nike

Thanks! She's working on basic edges. Her coach started those with her last month and mentioned they were on the pre-pre test. She has pretty spirals that are getting better and better and higher. I need to tape her again because dd thinks her spirals aren't as good as they used to be, yet her form and position look so much better. Now if we can get her to stop looking at her leg!!! LOL

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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven

There is the Waltz 8, which is one of the USFSA Moves in the Field; I believe it was also a compulsory figure in those days.

Then there is the Waltz 3, which is an exercise, usually done round the circle. You push off on to a (say) LFO edge which you hold for 3 beats, extending your free leg behind (don't forget to point your toe!) on the 1st beat, bringing it into the heel of the skating foot on the 2nd beat, and on the 3rd beat, turning a 3-turn. You then step down on to a RBO edge, which is held for 3 beats during which you have to concnetrate on your check, then you push from there on to the LFO edge, ideally without coming up on your toes as you do so (bending your knee deeply and lifting your free hip helps) and repeat, quite literally, ad nauseaum (you do get dizzy if you don't do this every session!). You then do it round the other way.

And if you want some real fun, you do it with a partner....

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Thanks! DD's grace on the ice needs to be improved, so I am sure this will not be a very pretty move yet. LOL! Once she completes the freestyle classes, I think I will have her take the ice dancing classes. The rate she is going with LTS, she'll start those the end of Spring beginning of Summer. What will be nice about those classes is that people rarely take them. Dd's friend is just passed Dance 1 and she was the only one in that class. Our LTS classes are 40 for 6 weeks of lessons. Not to shabby for LTS, let alone what will basically be a private lesson! Anyway... Thanks!

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skating mom to 3 angels on earth and 1 in heaven

At my club they call a waltz 3 is an 8-shaped pattern of outside 3-turns (one half of the eight they're done on the left foot, one half on the right foot) which starts from the center of the 8 on the left foot, and where each edge is held for an equal amount of time. I think you call it the waltz 8 though in the USA, because it's indeed on that test of ours which is more or less the equivalent of your pre-pre.
Just to make the confusion complete, LOL.

No, that's a figures Three. A waltz 8 is a little more complicated. You do start in the center of the 8, then do a forward outside 3-turn as you described for the first 6 counts (first third of the circle), then step onto a back outside edge on the other foot and hold for 6 counts while shifting the arms, then change feet again by stepping onto a forward outside edge and holding for the final 6 counts. This brings you back to the center of the 8 so you can do the whole thing again starting with the other foot. A waltz 8 has more steps than what you described, and I suspect the 8 pattern is bigger than what you're doing (either that, or you're counting a lot slower!).

The figures three and the waltz-8 are both figures patterns, and would be the same size if done in the figures context.

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Yes, I know that, so if you were counting 3-in, 3-out on the three-turn, the counts would be slower on the figures three than on the waltz 8.

ETA, that sounds a little defensive - I'm actually trying to agree with you. And I'm assuming that both patterns are being skated at the same speed, because that would make a difference, too. Sessy's right about things getting confusing! It's so much easier to demonstrate than describe.

We count to 3 and otherwise it's the same as you're describing. The whole pattern ends up being the size of a hockey circle...

Figures patterns are sized according to the skater's height, so few of them would be as large as a hockey circle. I believe that in the US the standard diameter is 3 times the skater's height, while in Europe it is twice the skater's height.

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Yeah but that one is on the MIF test in the Netherlands, not on figures. Or is that not what you mean?

Here in the US, the waltz 8 is on the Pre-Preliminary and Adult Pre-Bronze MIF tests, and also on the Preliminary Figures test.

I think they've changed the Adult Pre-Bronze test now, and have an exercise involving inside and outside 3-turns instead. Not quite power 3s, but you can see how it will "grow up" into power 3s when the time comes....

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

They haven't removed the Waltz-8, just added the new three turn pattern. I don't really think it has much to do with the Prelim/Bronze power threes, except for the step to BI edge after the FO three.

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For the MIF test, I have never seen this done anywhere but on the hockey circle. I'm pretty short but I'm not sure it's three times my height!

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You miss 100% of the shots you never take.--Wayne Gretzky

Whereas I have never seen it done on a hockey circle! Maybe this is a regional variation we've come across. Also, remember we are talking about diameter, not radius.

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I didn't do it on a hockey circle for the test, but I've practiced it that way. Starting in the center of the hockey circle, my scribed figure eight goes just beyond the circle. So the entire figure is a little bigger than the hockey circle, but each circle of the 8 is quite a bit smaller.