Hello all. I'm new to the forum. I'm not out to start a war here, but I am interested in the characteristics of a SP-Teri and Riedell boot. I've read that the SP-Teri is a more boxy boot and the Riedell boot is more narrow. Have the members of this forum found this to be true? Has anyone tried both boots? If so, what kind of foot do you have and which boot did you prefer? If this subject has already come up, please forgive me. A point in the right direction would be great.

I'm also starting out with Double Star blades. Anyone tried them?

Thanks.

Try the same question at the On Ice - Skaters forum. There are lots of boot and blade discussions there.

__________________

Thank you for the help dbny. I'll look in that forum.

I *had* Riedells and now have SP Teri... but I don't konw if you really want to talk to me about it, since I had relatively low-end Riedells that didn't fit me AT ALL.

You really have to watch for sizing with the Riedells, because they run BIG. I had a size 8.5 (my shoe size! ) and my teacher could fit FOUR fingers (count 'em, FOUR) behind my heel. as in, th elongest way 4 fingers go So... yeah, just one little hint.

In general I really like my SP Teris. I think the toe is more boxy, and I htink it looks better, honestly. My old Riedells looked TOO long and thin... just looked a little... odd...
Have you had a chance to try both of them? (as in, the boots)

It sounds to me like your Riedells were way too big! The pair I had was 2 sizes smaller than my street shoe, and that's how all the dealers I know size Riedells. The Riedells I had were an old Silver Star model, so I can't really compare them to the current models.

I've heard the same about SP-Teri's being good for a wide foot (actually a wide ball, with narrow heel), and Riedells being good for a narrow foot. I would say my foot is on the narrow side, the Riedells worked well for me for a long time.

__________________
~No thinking, breathing, or hesitation!~

Same for me here. I can't properly judge Riedells since the stock size that I got (from a sporting goods store) were waaay too big for my feet. I had to get something to fit in between my foot and the heel since the heel kept on coming up. The skates also looked very very narrow.

When I went to the SPTeri factory, I was properly fitted to a combination size boot 1.5 sizes smaller than the Riedells, I think. It was a while ago...But yes, I'd have to get a similar combination size in Riedells to properly compare the two. I really like my Teri boots - I've had them for about 3 years and they're still going strong! Obviously I don't skate as much as I'd like, but they haven't died yet!

__________________
"The ice is finer when the zombie goes over it!" - said by an excited 5-year-old at the rink

"The life you've led is in fact not the totality of what is possible for you." - John Partridge of Wheaton College (and a Matrix philosopher )

Don't go by what you READ about boots because everyone has differing opinions. I would highly suggest a master boot fitter and trying every stock brand there is - Harlick, SP Teri, Reidell, Jacksons, Gam, Risport.... to find what fits your foot best

Riedell has since brought their sizes in closer to street shoe sizes. I think there's about a single size difference in the current models.

I agree with everyone who says you should see a master boot fitter.

__________________

I suppose this is true, for the most part. I started out in Riedells (older models, the 220, then the Silver Star), and they worked all right for me at the beginning levels. I do have an especially narrow heel, and I thought that the Riedells could have been more snug in that area. I felt that they broke down somewhat quickly, and when they did go, it felt like the heel area, especially, had compressed, or stretched, because the heels got really sloppy. I was in two-sizes-down-from-street-size, too.

I now have SPTeris, the Super-Deluxe (the actual boot is a few years old, though I'd only skated in them for about half their age--they sat on the shelf for a while before I bought them). I LOVE my SPTeris...although I could probably use a tiny bit more room in the ball area (I'll probably get a split width next time), the heel fits like a dream. I prefer a rock-solid boot, too. I believe my SPTeri sizing is about 1 1/2 sizes down from street size.

__________________
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
--Thomas Jefferson

www.signingtime.com ~sign language fun for all!

I started out in Reidells (it was one of the lower end models) and thought they fit fine in the ball of the foot, but my heel slipped constantly. I have SP Teris now, in the combination width, and they fit great. My SP Teris are actually a half size bigger than my Reidells were. My toes would have butted up against the front of the boot in the smaller size and that would have driven me insane.

I echo the others that recommended you go to a good fitter. Everyone's feet are unique and the best brand for you may be something completely different.

Thank you for all your replies. I really appreciate it. I've gathered quite a bit of information from these posts. I am a bit flat footed and tried on the SP-Teri. Anyone one else have flat-feet? What are you wearing? It seemed a little tight around the arch and blade of my foot. I was wearing thin dress socks at the time. The fitter said that the boot should fit snug with only the slightest bit of room inbetween my toe and the toe of the boot. I was told that it is normal to have some soreness in the feet after your first few skating sessions. Eventually, you break them in I suppose. My feet were measured and traced, so I'm guessing the job was done right. However, if I continue to have pain in the arch after a month (twice a week), what should I do?

The fitter said something similar to the other posts about fitting the Reidells. Something about the boots needing to be about a full size smaller to make a proper fit.

I saw an ad in this ice skating magazine for a hinged boot made by Pro-flex. I was really really interested in the boot until I saw the price tag!!! My guess is the hinge gives a big advantage for skaters that need to do low spins. Has anyone tried this boot before?

IceDancer1419 - I haven't had a chance to try the Reidells for ice skating. I've been in the Reidell 117 boot before and had a comforable fit, but it was not for ice skating. I think ice skaters try tighter fits than roller-blade/skaters. The leather on the SP-Teri seemed less flexible than the Reidells 117's. That might be a good thing for ice skating though. I guess I'm going to find out.


Many thanks to all who replied.

Ok. This is off subject, but there's one more thing I'd like to confess. I'm sure some of you will not be happy with this comment...


I purchased some MK Double-Star blades, which are supposed to be a step above the Excel blades. When I asked about the difference in the blades, the fitter pointed to the pick area. " You see the top pick on this one - how it's bigger". I didn't say anything, but I thought to myself "How does a measly tooth at the tip of the boot make a difference in skating?" I mean really - the master pick might have been 1-2mm longer with a slightly different drag pick/tooth network. Come on now! Can anyone tell me what's going on in that extra millimeter that gives a skater more versatility in movement

Aside -As you can see, I don't like picks and I haven't even started practicing. I noticed the conspicuous pick with the rental skates. The severe loss of play around the toe and heel forces the skater to have almost flat feet for any movement. Why not just sand off everything except the second-to-last tooth and the master pick? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing like floating on ice and watching a graceful spin or jump, but is that gigantic pick network really necessary?

-Wood for the fire I guess.

Sadly i don't KNOW what my feet are. lol. My ankles "pronate" so if I step, my foot looks flat (I leave a nice flat footprint) but according to my coach I actually ahve high arches (when I'm not putting pressure on the foot)

I have an orthotic in there... not a custom, but an arch support to keep my knees from going in. The SP Teris are generally harder leather and harder to break in... it can be good to some extent to have the support, but for the more beginning levels it isn't always great because it can HURT to break them in... mine are lukcly not giving me much trouble

I'd answer the toepick question but I really don't understand the "physics" of toepicks, so to speak

As far as picks go, my understanding is that in figure skates, you need the bottom picks so you don't pitch forward over the front of your blade, especially when you are going backwards (boink!). I've seen skaters have problems with blades that were used for doing figures, where the bottom pick was shaved completely off and it was hard to find the balance. The rocker on a figure skate blade is further forward than a hockey blade, which seems to be more in the middle (therefore the weight of the skater in a hockey blade is more towards the middle of the foot, rather than towards the ball of the foot in a figure skate blade).

That being said, we had a young man at our rink who in the last two years switched from hockey to ice dance. He passed a lot of the first dances in the hockey skates, then got a pair of figure skates with blades where ALL of the picks had been shaved off and he passed more tests in those. Finally got Synchro blades and is currently working on pre-gold dances.

So, it can be done, I guess. Just depends on the individual.

__________________
Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

My coach bought a pair of hockey skates to wear sometimes for Learn to Skate classes. We had fun last friday watching him successfully skate portions of Novice MIF and the Austrian waltz in them.

His counters in Hockey skates were pretty dang respectable.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

On a scratch spin, the bottom pick grazes the ice and you can see that in the tracing of a good scratch spin.

__________________

darn it...I had a HUGE reply for this, and the board gave me 'lip'. Well, here goes again.

Yep. In fact, it's not uncommon for your toes to actually brush the end of the toe box with a good fit. Incentive to keep the toenails short, that's for sure!


Well, I don't have flat feet, so I can't speak to that. I'm guessing an orthotic insert may be called for--and some folks here have good experience with those. But there are other reasons that your arches may hurt--one of which is tying the laces too tight over the arch area. There's a bit of a 'science' to lacing up--the quick and dirty goes like this: snug at the toes, relax a bit over the arch, YANK those puppies at the ankle bend, then gradually relax towards the top, so that you can fit two fingers in the top edge of your boot. Also, when breaking them in, don't lace the last two hooks. Skate a few sessions, then hook one more, then a few more sessions, then hook the last one. (I still don't hook the last one on my SPTeris, but then, those really are concrete monsters! )

Remember though, 'size' ain't nuthin but a number. Think of it like this--your dress size may be a perfect 10, but in one maker, you need a 12 or even 14, and in another, an 8 fits like a dream. The 'size' of the garment is the same across the board--it's just that what it's called is different. It's the same in boots--your shoe size may be a 7, but that same size in Riedell may be called 6, and in SPTeri, may be called 5.5. But it's really all the same.

Remember too, that if your feet aren't at least a little bit 'claustrophobic', , then you're probably in a boot that's too big. Tight without sheer agony is pretty much the way it should go. (And also remember that sore areas such as around the ankle bones can be punched out for comfort.)

I don't know if anyone here has actually tried it, but I think most of us didn't really like the idea--it's hard to see how a hinged boot can still give the same necessary, solid support that leather provides.

The Riedell 117 is going to be a VERY soft, flexible boot. How tall are you, and what do you weigh--are you an adult? (It's important for proper boot-choosing.) For example, I started skating as an adult, 5'1", 130 lbs, and I began in the Riedell 220 (older model). That boot was shot within six months. I should have had the 320s. I then moved into a Silver Star (355), again older model, and that was broken down within the year. I was at about FS 2-3 by that time, skating 5-6 hours a week.

I wouldn't put you in a 117 unless you're extremely lightweight, a child, or your year-old, daily-wear tennis shoes look brand-new.


You don't want something too firm to begin with, but you don't want something too soft, either, because A) you won't have the support you really need, and B) you'll break the skates down far too soon, and have to replace them. You'll also risk injury in broken-down boots.

Although I'm not too familiar with the blades you mention, I'd bet there's more between them than just a top pick size. Perhaps the steel is better in the next model up as well.

Picks are not for 'versatility in movement'--they're for jumping. You need bigger picks for bigger, more stable jumps. If you're a beginner, you aren't going to want a huge pick, because you'll spend more time killing yourself tripping over it than learning how to use it. But if you're taking lessons and planning on progressing, then you may want a slightly bigger pick, so that you won't outgrow its usefulness too soon. I'm guessing you're a brand-new beginner? In choosing a blade, you want to ask yourself what your goals are. Do you just want to skate forwards in a circle with the kids twice a year? Then get a 'baby pick' blade. But if you're taking lessons, do the slight 'upgrade' now, without going overboard. Also, if it's better steel, it will hold a sharpening better and longer.

What rental skates were you using??? I've never seen a rental skate with anything but a 'baby pick', or maybe the next level up, if you're lucky. Even then, it's usually useless, because it's been sharpened so crappily that the bottom pick has been shaved off.

I'm 99% positive that it wasn't the pick causing 'loss of play' in your rentals. Instead, I'm betting that the rocker, or curve, in the bottom of the blade had been sharpened completely flat, causing your problems. Most rental skates are awful, and sharpened by people who have no idea what they're doing, or simply don't care.


As you progress, you'll learn why the pick is necessary. Trust me, it really is.

__________________
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
--Thomas Jefferson

www.signingtime.com ~sign language fun for all!

I am amazed at the prompt replies to the latest post. I read them all, and everyone was informative. Thanks again.

IceDancer1419 - Okaaay, you're just wierd. That's all that is.---Just kidding. The fitter diagnosed me with the same thing. However, I don't think I have high arches when my feet are at rest. As I understand it, the pronation, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. Soccer players and martial artists probably use supination and pronation all the time. It's just when your foot is inclined that way permanently that it becomes a fitting problem.

Fun facts to know and tell - Scientists believe arches allowed ancient man to climb trees easily. So I guess there was a practical use for them at one time.


icedancer2 - Interesting info on blades and balance. Did they shave off the picks for the hockey guy as a way to wean him off of the hockey boot and blade?

jenlyon60 - I would like to see that myself. I wonder what figure skating looks like in hockey boots?! What are counters?

dbny - yes, I've heard of these scratch spins... Next time I'll look on the ice to see the scratch. Well, maybe I'll wait for the ~Zambeezee to clean up first and then find someone doing scratch spins. I'm guessing the ideal trace is a perfect circle right?


flippet - That's reassuring because the boots I have are definitely a tight fit. When I was trying to fit my foot into the boot, I felt like one of the step-sisters in Disney's "Cinderella" fumbling to fit their feet into a tiny slipper. The fitter was a lady. She was trying to give me the best treatment by putting the boots on for me, but it requires strength. After a few seconds of her efforts I couldn't bear it any longer and just started struggling with the boots myself. I know she meant well though...



Yes, I agree. The SPTeri is closer to a ski boot in comparison to a Reidell 117, which feels almost like a soft leather dress shoe. I'm close to 5'10 and weigh around 130-135. I would like to think of myself as an adult, though I fall short of the mark at times.


Yeesh. No kidding? It's good to hear about your experience because we are about the same weight.



I'm afraid I don't know what FS 2-3 means. Perhaps it's your skill level?


Haha. I can assure you that is not the case.


Interesting. I'll take your word for it, but it seems to me that the more aggressive picks that protrude out and have more teeth would prevent the skater from ever leaving the ice on takeoff. I can see how the pick would stop movement, but wouldn't they also lock onto the ice on takeoff, thereby impairing the skate from pulling out of the ice?


Yeah, the fitter might have said a few more things about the blade. In my amazement, the other explanations kind of went in one ear and out the other. I just couldn't believe that a microscopically larger toe pick was one of the key high-end features of the blade.


I'm not sure what kind of rentals they were. They had a beige appearence "brownies" and the material was like a suedo-leather; very plastic. I didn't even see a hollow on the bottom of the blade. It was flat. There probably was a baby pick on the rental skates.(To me, it felt like a giant ginsu knife sitting on the front of my blade.) I've always been sensitive about my feet. They say that when you walk, your carrying toe almost touches the ground just before your heel connects. That's why you can be walking and stub your toe on a slightly elevated crack on the sidewalk. I was so tired of lifting the tips of my feet after 30mins and towards the end of the skate session the pick started to catch the ice more often.

I had no idea that rentals were poorly maintained! I'm glad I invested in personal skates.

Yes, a tight circle, but it doesn't have to be a perfectly centered spin for you to see how the toepick scratches the ice slightly. You can even hear it, if the music isn't too loud...

Oh, it does get easier the more you put your skates on, LOL. The leather will wear down as you skate and plus, they'll mold to your feet more once you break them in.

Psh, an SPTeri is nothing compared to my experience in a rental ski boot. I will never ever EVER complain about wearing skates ever again after my first ski trip. My first day at the rink in my new SPTeris didn't even compare in terms of foot pain.

But yes, "soft leather dress shoe" is not what you want. They won't even give you support on deep edges, let alone jumps and spins.

Yes, it's the ISI test system - means you have a salchow and toe loop, maybe a loop (?) and an upright scratch spin. Or something of that sort. All I know is that I have a smattering of skills around FS 3/4/5.

That is not the case, because the only time where a toepick will stop total momentum is when you're going forward, as you will learn very quickly when doing spirals. When you go on your toepicks on forward spirals, you will take a swift faceplant into the ice. When you go on your toepicks on backward spirals, you will slow down considerably, but won't completely stop unless you are ALL the way on your toepicks.

All of the pick jumps are done from a backwards entrance. Therefore, when the pick goes into the ice, it gives your picking foot a stable pivot on which to transfer your weight. You will not stop or slow down unless your skating foot is on the toepick. Missing the pick on a toe loop, flip, or lutz is very very scary thing, because the jump simply does not happen and all you can do is brace yourself for the disaster.

Ever hear of the K-pick? It's basically an extra piece of metal welded onto the sides of the toepicks, featuring more serrations. Talk about overkill....that's not worth the extra money, I don't think. Lower level skaters might feel a difference in their jumps, but the technique of elite skaters is so good that the extra picking power isn't as pronounced.

I was telling the family here that I wanted to go skating, and they said that I could just use the rink's skates. I nearly fell over and was like, "Not on my life!"

__________________
"The ice is finer when the zombie goes over it!" - said by an excited 5-year-old at the rink

"The life you've led is in fact not the totality of what is possible for you." - John Partridge of Wheaton College (and a Matrix philosopher )

I think he bought a pair of used skates that had had all of the picks shaved off -- he saw this as a way to transition from the hockey blade. the picks really freaked him out at first.

There is another guy at our rink who is a good ice-dancer -- but he also can do all of the dances up through Golds in hockey skates, and he does it quite regularly. He says he feels more stable in them. It's just for fun of course.

__________________
Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

icedancer2 -

Well, now I know that some of the moves can be done without a pick. That's comforting, considering my distaste for toe picks.



Anita18 -
Ok, now it's making more sense. I can visualize what you're saying. The forward movement rolls from the drag pick to the middle picks and master pick. You go from bad to worse if you pick stop while going forward. Your foot rolls forward from the momentum and since there is nothing left but more picks, (and your boot ) you fall. If you pick stop going backwards, you start at one of the middle picks and roll to the drag pick and into the blade. This allows you to glide out of a stop. After taking a second look at some of the picks on blades, I noticed the teeth have a taper to them, which probably prevents the pick from rooting itself in the ice.

Anita18 and Icedancer2, thank you for your replies. I'll probably be asking more questions in the future, since I'm a "newbie" at this stuff. Some of my questions may not be worth posting as a thread. Hopefully, it's ok to PM those who responded in this thread, but if not, just let me know. Thanks again.

Crap. The board ate my reply again, and I don't have time to respond again now.

Feel free to keep asking, that's how you learn.

I'll just say in short, that your idea of how the picks function as Anita mentioned above, is really not right. It has to do with weight placement, and impossibilities of ankle motion! Have someone demonstrate exactly what happens when you accidentally put weight on the picks in a forward glide, or a backward glide. I think you may be surprised!

__________________
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
--Thomas Jefferson

www.signingtime.com ~sign language fun for all!

There isn't really a rolling motion. If you are gliding forward and hit your pick, you are going to hit the one closest to the ice first--the bottom pick--and it's basically game over. You hit the pick, which stops the motion of your feet, but your body keeps going, and BANG. Wipe-out. If you're going backwards and dig your bottom pick in, you will drag to a stop.

__________________
~No thinking, breathing, or hesitation!~

EXACTLY!! You never actually SKATE on the picks in any way, shape or form!

Diagetus -- I wonder what you mean by a "pick-stop" in your previous post? Do you mean, that if you are gliding forward on one foot, then stick the picks of your opposite foot in to stop? I would think if you did that you would put yourself off-balance, and well, maybe not fall flat, but still it would be quite awkward!

Going backwards I can see where I have at times used my picks to stop when I have been in a "Bail-out" kind of situation, like where if you don't stop quickly, you might hit the wall or another skater. So that would be like: gliding backwards, reach behind with your foot and stick your picks in to stop (usually the "master pick" and the one below [although on dance blades there isn't much of a master pick but that is a whole 'nother story...]).

You might want to look at some pictures of blades on the internet -- I don't have time to post links right now, but just google John Wilson or MK Blade, or John Watts or Ultima and you will see all of the figure skate blade variations that are out there.

Mostly as a beginner skater I would recommend a good blade with kind of "normal" picks -- (Coronation Ace comes to mind -- that is a good, basic John Wilson blade) -- after learning to skate you shouldn't have much problems with the picks per se...

Good luck with your skating and have fun!!

__________________
Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

Ditto! Nobody's foot is the same as yours so you won't know until you try them on with the help of an experienced pro.

luna_skater
I see what you're saying.




icedancer2

What?!! You've never heard that term before? I guess it's 'cause I made it up. From your reply, I think you understand what I'm saying. You described what I was trying to explain in terms of a forward stop and an immediate backwards stop using the pick. Yes, I've seen the experienced skaters using their blades to make more sophisticated stops like the T-Stop and Hockey Stop. There's some other wierd ones that I've seen, but I don't know their names.


I looked at the Wilson and MK blades on the net and quite frankly I didn't see much of a difference. It looked like the higher-end skates had meaner/larger looking picks. I couldn't see a difference in blade curvature and there were no detail shots of the underside, so I couldn't compare hollows. Maybe I need to see some more up close and personal. Once I meet some of the regulars at my rink (and they realize that I'm not crazy) I'll ask to see their blades.


Thanks.


doubletoe

Hello, doubletoe. The shoe selection was fairly limited for my size. They only had Reidell and SP-Teri at the time. I guess I should ask them to order Risports, Harlicks, and Gam. My hypothesis is that they don't carry all those names because they don't have enough skaters doing business with their store. I'll be hard pressed to get them to bring in more boots, because I just purchased a pair. Perhaps if I had asked earlier, they might have gone the extra mile. doubletoe, how do you know if a fitter is a real pro? What kind of credentials should they have? I know my fitter has been doing this for quite a while. I assumed that was enough. Beyond that, I don't know what to look for.