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  #51  
Old 12-18-2009, 09:26 AM
LilJen LilJen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
Uh... (speaking as someone who isn't quite bronze yet, so I have no idea) but is it really expected that a bronze skater has enough spins in their repetoire to not need to do both a scratch and a back-scratch as seperate spins? (My other spin being sit. And I can kind of change among the 3.)

Cause if so, uh, crap. (Yeah, I know I'll never win, but I kind of wanted to be able to skate)
Yep, the WBP requirements state that your "up to 3 spins" must be "of a different nature." Could you do a change-foot upright spin? If you have your back scratch, that should count (1 upright same foot, 1 change-foot upright, 1 sit). I have two different spins in my 'will-be-bronze-at-some-point" program--one is plain vanilla forward scratch, and the other is a change foot (fwd-back-fwd--because it works for ISI3 as well). Don't forget the lowly 2-footed spin as well--it's an option!

ETA: I see several people have already addressed this. And yes, it's not IJS--it's the well-balanced program requirements that dictate the spins. People often confuse IJS and WBP, but they are two different things. WBP started developing long before IJS to put skaters on a more level playing field (ie, you can/must have only so many jumps, so many spins, so many spirals or footwork sequences).
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  #52  
Old 12-18-2009, 09:32 AM
RachelSk8er RachelSk8er is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
Yep, the WBP requirements state that your "up to 3 spins" must be "of a different nature." Could you do a change-foot upright spin? If you have your back scratch, that should count (1 upright same foot, 1 change-foot upright, 1 sit). I have two different spins in my 'will-be-bronze-at-some-point" program--one is plain vanilla forward scratch, and the other is a change foot (fwd-back-fwd--because it works for ISI3 as well). Don't forget the lowly 2-footed spin as well--it's an option!
Just a suggestion, too. If you have a weak back scratch that you can only do from a standstill (or close to a standstill), which tends to be typical for a lot of bronze skaters, try doing the combo as a back scratch-forward scratch. "Technically" that's considered harder and very few people do it this way, but some people find it easier becauase they can get into the back scratch from a speed they are comfortable with, hit enough revs, and then easily step into a forward scratch. I think the transition between the two spins is a lot easier than the forward-back transition.
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  #53  
Old 12-18-2009, 09:35 AM
Skittl1321 Skittl1321 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LilJen View Post
Yep, the WBP requirements state that your "up to 3 spins" must be "of a different nature." Could you do a change-foot upright spin? If you have your back scratch, that should count (1 upright same foot, 1 change-foot upright, 1 sit). I have two different spins in my 'will-be-bronze-at-some-point" program--one is plain vanilla forward scratch, and the other is a change foot (fwd-back-fwd--because it works for ISI3 as well). Don't forget the lowly 2-footed spin as well--it's an option!

ETA: I see several people have already addressed this. And yes, it's not IJS--it's the well-balanced program requirements that dictate the spins. People often confuse IJS and WBP, but they are two different things. WBP started developing long before IJS to put skaters on a more level playing field (ie, you can/must have only so many jumps, so many spins, so many spirals or footwork sequences).
I think my annoyance is that the WBP USED to be that forward and backward were of different nature - when the spins were determined with IJS codes, they became the same spin. Yes, I know that it's not an only-IJS rule anymore, but it's based from that. I just really think at such a low level, it's incredibly restricting to not be able to do 2 upright spins.

On a really good day I can do a change foot spin okay, on a good day I can do a really crappy one, that results in spinning, but ugly positions, but my spins have to be at like a third of the speed if I weren't changing feet. I used it in an ISI competition over a year ago, but it is in no way ready for a bronze level competition. If I were to compete today (hah) I'd have to do upright, sit, and then sit-upright. (But I really hate having to rely on my sit spin, it's not low enough -so it's possible a judge would choose not to count it at all- and it hurts my knees really badly)

I also think its really odd that the test doesn't prepare you for the requirements of the level- a change-position or a change-foot is needed to fill out the WBP if you want all 3 spins, but the 3 spins in the TEST program won't fit that need. I know tests don't prepare you to be competitive (you need all your singles in Bronze, for example) but they should prepare you to meet the needs of the program. The test program, with a stand alone scratch spin, and a stand alone backspin, wouldn't even be allowed in competition (or at least have all elements count- is there a deduction in 6.0 for the extra elements or do they just garner no points?)
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  #54  
Old 12-18-2009, 02:11 PM
Isk8NYC Isk8NYC is offline
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A Technical Notification went out yesterday from the USFSA regarding a correction in the 3791 Adult Silver Well-Balanced Free Skate Requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USFSA Tech Notification 57
DATED: December 17, 2009
Re: Correction regarding Adult Silver Free Skate
The jump combination/jump sequence requirement in Rule 3791: Adult Silver
Well-Balanced Free Skate Requirements contains a typographical error.
The rule should read as follows (change is underlined):
3791 The Adult Silver Well-Balanced Free Skate Must Contain:
Jumps & Jump Combinations: A maximum of five different single jump
elements, which may include an Axel jump. Jumps may be repeated only
once and only in combination and/or sequences. There must be at least
one jump combination or sequence, but there may be up to three jump
combinations or sequences. Each jump combination and/or sequence
counts as one jump element. The number of jumps in a combination or
sequence is limited. One jump combination could consist of three jumps,
and the other two up to two jumps. Additional jump sequences which
contain jumps of not more than one revolution (i.e. mazurkas, half loops,
etc.) performed as part of connecting footwork preceding single jumps are
permitted. Only single jumps and Axels are allowed. No double or triple
jumps are permitted.

These requirements are listed correctly in the element chart online and in the
2010 U.S. Figure Skating Rulebook (page 250). This information is also listed
correctly in the U.S. Adult Figure Skating Championships announcement.
LINK: http://www.usfigureskating.org/Conte...ication_57.pdf
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  #55  
Old 12-18-2009, 06:03 PM
doubletoe doubletoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
I think my annoyance is that the WBP USED to be that forward and backward were of different nature - when the spins were determined with IJS codes, they became the same spin. Yes, I know that it's not an only-IJS rule anymore, but it's based from that. I just really think at such a low level, it's incredibly restricting to not be able to do 2 upright spins.

On a really good day I can do a change foot spin okay, on a good day I can do a really crappy one, that results in spinning, but ugly positions, but my spins have to be at like a third of the speed if I weren't changing feet. I used it in an ISI competition over a year ago, but it is in no way ready for a bronze level competition. If I were to compete today (hah) I'd have to do upright, sit, and then sit-upright. (But I really hate having to rely on my sit spin, it's not low enough -so it's possible a judge would choose not to count it at all- and it hurts my knees really badly)

I also think its really odd that the test doesn't prepare you for the requirements of the level- a change-position or a change-foot is needed to fill out the WBP if you want all 3 spins, but the 3 spins in the TEST program won't fit that need. I know tests don't prepare you to be competitive (you need all your singles in Bronze, for example) but they should prepare you to meet the needs of the program. The test program, with a stand alone scratch spin, and a stand alone backspin, wouldn't even be allowed in competition (or at least have all elements count- is there a deduction in 6.0 for the extra elements or do they just garner no points?)
Honestly, I think that 3 spins is too many for a Bronze program, both in terms of the program length and in terms of the number of different types of spins skaters can be expected to do at that level. For a little perspective, remember that 3 spins is the maximum number allowed in the 4-minute long Senior Ladies freeskate! Since the Bronze freeskate is only 1:50, I think 2 spins is perfectly reasonable. Personally, I would have appreciated only having to do two spins when I was in Bronze. I had two upright spins (one forward, one reverse) and only one of them would have counted under the current spin definitions. Now that I'm in Gold, I still wouldn't mind only having to do 2 spins because I think our programs are still too packed. The Adult Gold program is 1:30 less than the Senior Ladies' LP but we have the same number of spins and only one jump fewer. Although we only have to do one step or spiral sequence instead of two, that's only a difference of 25-30 seconds so they've still got a minute more to play with than we do. There's hardly time to cram all of the elements into 2:40, much less express the music!
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  #56  
Old 12-18-2009, 08:09 PM
daisies daisies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubletoe View Post
Honestly, I think that 3 spins is too many for a Bronze program, both in terms of the program length and in terms of the number of different types of spins skaters can be expected to do at that level.
That's why it's a maximum with no minimum. You can do two and not be penalized. And it's not IJS, so there's no lost potential for points. In 6.0 it's about the overall impression of a program, so if a skater feels more comfortable doing two spins and a third spin would be crappy anyway, it's much better to do only two spins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doubletoe View Post
The Adult Gold program is 1:30 less than the Senior Ladies' LP but we have the same number of spins and only one jump fewer. Although we only have to do one step or spiral sequence instead of two, that's only a difference of 25-30 seconds so they've still got a minute more to play with than we do. There's hardly time to cram all of the elements into 2:40, much less express the music!
Standard-track Intermediates have to do the same number of jumps, spins and steps in the same amount of time as Adult Gold. Standard-track Juveniles have to do the same number of spins, jumps and steps as Adult Gold but with at least 15 seconds less!
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