The lower passing average for adults makes sense if you consider that the adult track was originally conceived to encourage adults to take up skating AS adults. It is unrealistic to expect the average adult to have the same flexibility and adeptness as the average child. The purpose of establishing the adult track wass to encourage adults to test while not expecting them to perform as children. There are many people who find the idea of NOT being judged at the same standard as our grandchildren to be a good thing and think its nice that USFSA has recognized this.

It seems to me that if you find the idea of a lower passing average insulting, then the solution is to simply test within the standard structure. No one says you can't do both.

Let us know what they say regarding the test levels -- I am very curious!!

Good luck with all things dance!!

Was the someone one of the Harvath's? They certainly expressed how they felt about this on another list.

No, the Harvaths weren't there. I believe it was Sandy Lamb.

I talked to one of our club's delegates this morning and asked her about this. Her answer was that it passed with little or no discussion.

Anyone planning on wearing pants to compete? Just curious. I wouldn't mind wearing them to test...but I doubt my coach would let me. She barely let me wear my gloves during my Intermediate Moves test the other day.

__________________
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

There was supposed to be discussion about revision of the Adult Moves, specifically the Gold Moves. Does anyone know what happened with that?

As I understand it, that was for discussion only by the Adult Skating Committee. There was never an intention to discuss anything on the floor of the GC general meeting. I.e., there was no Request for Action about the Adult Moves.

There was, however, a lively discussion of the Moves at the Adult Skating Committee meeting at Adult Nationals.

Are you able to share any of that discussion with us?

YIIIIIIPEEEEEE!!!!!

No, it doesn't mean that I won't wear a skating dress at competition, but if I have the option of wearing jazzpants, I'm gonna wear it! (Of course, I still would have to go through my skating coaches for this one too. DUM dum-dum dum!!!)

Time to start looking for some nice jazzy pieces to wear those pants with!!!

Stormy: My primary coach wouldn't let me wear my gloves to test either! He asked for my gloves right before I went on the ice to warm up for a competition and the same before both tests.

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

We Canadian skaters have no option at the moment but to do the standard kid tests. We have no adult testing program at the moment. That all might change at this year's Skate Canada AGM in June. Skate Canada had all of us first ever Canadian Adult Championship competitors do a survey asking us all kinds of questions about competition, testing and so on which will be do May 15.

I've already done the questionaire. I feel that those who are 30 and over should have the option in Canada to be able to do testing in an adult track that would not require as much to pass each level (quality and certain items moved to a level in between adding two extra levels which we currently don't have; pre-prelim and pre-junior bronze in FS, dance would stay the same except that extentions and depth of edge would be more leniate). This is what I wrote in.

Right now we jump from nothing in freeskating in Canada to passing the kid's prelim FS test which has these items;
bunny hop
waltz jump
salchow
loop
flip
toe loop/toe loop combo
forward upright spin (2 revs... could change to 3 revs)
sitspin (2 revs... could change to 3 revs)
backspin (2 revs)
camel (2 revs)
and then we do a 2 minute - or + 10 sec. FS program incorporating all these elements.

I will like to see a pre-prelim test that would have only these elements;
bunny hop
waltz jump
salchow
toe loop
half flip
waltz/toe loop combo
forward upright spin (2 revs)
sitspin (2 revs)
two foot spin (3 revs)
and then we do a 1 minute 30 sec. - or + 10 sec. FS program incorporating all these elements.

Pre-junior bronze could have ;
flip
lutz
split jump
loop/ loop combo
lutz/loop combo
forward corkscrew (scratch) spin (4 revs... )
flying sitspin (2 revs)
back corkscrew (stratch) spin (3 revs)
camel (4 revs)
attitude spin (either forward or back) (3 revs)
and then we do a 2 minute 10 - or + 10 sec. FS program incorporating all these elements.

But I would like to see a pre-prelim and pre-junior bronze test for everyone, not just the Canadian Adults. It's just too much to go from nothing to the prelim test and than jump from the prelim to the junior bronze test. All the other levels from senior bronze and on add things bit by bit.

Brigitte

__________________
"It's not age that determines but the heart." "Skating is not just a sport for the young but it's a passion for the soul of the young at heart." Brigitte Laskowski

I am a nomadic adult skater who is a member of Windsor FSC (Skate Windsor) WOS SC again since Sept. 1st, 2008.

http://eastcastlemusic.tripod.com

Singerskates Sports Music Editing

I feel that changing the elements within the testing structure is a bad idea. The preliminary test should remain as is, although it could add a jump sequence to make it match more what is being seen in the freeskate programs at competition. What would be a sweet cash grab for Skate Canada would be to add an introductory test, that is similar to some of the Introductory or Canskate recreational competitive categories in WOS or COS. ie, Bunny Hop, Waltz, Toeloop, 1 foot spin (3 rev) 2 foot spin (3 rev), spiral or lunge in a one minute program. That's similar to Canskate badge 7, the only difference it that it is made into an official test in front of judges.
Since there is a move on to streamline categories as it is, I doubt this will ever happen although you could try. (more test fees, more revenue for SC might spark interest)

On one hand, the upswing in Adult skaters in Canada is good, on the other hand, there are only 1294 registered as adult skaters,(and I believe that includes Adult CanSkate) out of 31000 non-competitive skaters. I would much rather spend my energy trying to get an age group of 16 and over at every winter rec competition, than to try to get anything separately labelled "adult" because there isn't the membership to support it.

I'm doing well in dance (naturally soft knees) so don't see a need for lesser standards. If I can't do the choctaw in the Killian at speed or without crunching, then I really don't deserve to pass that dance. I don't want a pity pass. It's hard enough working my *** off to get a nice Swing dance with whisper quiet edges and pass it with Good, and then to hear some 8 year old brag that she just passed the Swing and only had 3 Needs Improvements. They're both passes but I really earned mine. That's what needs to be addressed.

Take this to a separate thread if you want to talk about Canada, but I have been following along on the USFSA developments with interest.

Yup, you're not the only one that I've heard say that my pre-prelim FS test (or your Introductory FS test) would be a good idea for Skate Canada. It would match the USFSA's pre-prelim test. I do think it should be offered to all. After looking at the Junior Bronze more closely, I think everyone else is right about not needing a pre-junior bronze test.

The thing about an Adult track should not be forced on adults but it should be an option to those adults who wish to do it. For me, I'd just would like to see a pre-prelim test added on to the FS tests so that no skater no matter what age they are has to learn all the single jumps not including lutz and axel and all the basic spins all at once. It's very overwheming to learn all that in one time and sometimes or most of the time it takes years and years to pass the first freeskate test. To have a pre-prelim (introductory) FS test would get more adults and kids to stay in skating. Look at the US, they have pre-prelim FS tests and they have no shortage of kid skaters or adult skaters.

Brigitte

__________________
"It's not age that determines but the heart." "Skating is not just a sport for the young but it's a passion for the soul of the young at heart." Brigitte Laskowski

I am a nomadic adult skater who is a member of Windsor FSC (Skate Windsor) WOS SC again since Sept. 1st, 2008.

http://eastcastlemusic.tripod.com

Singerskates Sports Music Editing

There are more adult skaters than that. According to the skate canada computer I am a competitive skater. This is because my ome club inputted me as that based on that I skate on the competitive skating sessions. Many of us are not put into adult categories.

Back to the US stuff...

I find it weird that wearing a dress would be such an issue that it was changed at an AGM. I'm no spring chicken and no skinny-mini bu I had a dress made that I thought was quite flattering. Yes, I might look like a hippo beside some kids but skating dresses can be very flattering if they are made properly.

Don't forget that adults who can barely afford to skate will not want to have to spend additional money on dresses they don't need except to satisfy a rule.

__________________

But if you were to participate in another sport you would probably have to wear a uniform or some sort of clothing which you would have to buy. And everyone knows skating is very expensive. For example, if you were to do equestrian you would have to buy the proper clothes is you were planning on competing. What about if you were doing dance? You could wear jogging pants for class but if you did a show you would have to buy an outfit, etc.

Actually, you could have a big problem if you're registered as Competitive, and enter a rec (Starskate) competition.

Adult is a subcategory. I really am Executive/Starskate/Adult, but there's only two fields, and they told me I had to be Executive/Adult. Now I see in the annual report just out (where I saw that 1200+ number) that Adult is a subcategory of recreational, and recreational means Canskate/CanPower. It's confusing and should be clarified. So, I don't think that Skate Canada has a good handle on the number of adults like us, adults who test/compete, or could if they wanted to [wear a dress, ]. I'd like to know how many they have registered as Starskate/Adult. Heck, there's even a few competitive ice dancers right now that should be registered as COMPSK/ADULT.

Since it could not be discussed on the above list, is anyone here going to the Christopher Dean workshop in Seattle on May 22nd an 23rd?

Yeap! This (partly) falls under me too!!! The skating dresses that I've seen that are affordable are either too young or too mature for me. The stuff that are "age appropriate" and looks good on me are usually too expensive (or looks too glitsy for my level of skating.) I don't have the money to go to a dressmaker (like I did in 2001) and I certainly don't know how to sew, much less have the time to learn to sew.

The skating dress I wore at my last competition was a month of getting the stones and then stoning it myself and at least two months to pick out the dress and wait for it to be shipped to me. (And I'm proud to say that I did a respectable job of stoning the dress myself given the deadline I had. I fooled enough people into thinking that one of the skating moms who usually does other people's dresses did mine. Half right -- she got me the stones.)

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Well, as I recall, lots of people were complaining about the Novice move in the Gold moves and the Preliminary 3's in the Pre-bronze moves. There were several statements along the lines of "Look how much adult skating has already improved because of the mandatory Moves." And there was the usual griping about grandfathering from standard track and some griping about being forced to reskate some of the same Moves if you jump from Gold to Intermediate on the standard track. There were quite a few comments about how judges aren't cutting adults any slack at all -- still holding us to the standard track ideal when judging it in adult tests. And there was acknowledgement that we need to do a better job getting the adult vs. standard track comparison chart out to judges.

Personal aside 1: I don't see how you can attribute the "improvement" in basic skating to the mandatory Moves. Most of the competitive skaters I know haven't taken the Moves tests yet. But that's just a personal observation.

Personal aside 2: I, the skater, shouldn't have to be responsible for printing out a "how to judge adults" chart and giving it to my test chair or judges right before my test!

Sorry I can't be more specific, but I really don't remember who said what. I was hoping someone would post some minutes on the USFSA website, but nothing's been put up yet.

I'm dissapointed that there's not a published report of the Governing Council actions on the USFSA site yet. Has anyone seen a report? Am I missing it?
Thanks

ITA, ITA!!! Especially since, yes, I have personally seen how many judges don't judge by the Adult standard. The first time I took Silver Moves, I KNEW I was going to be judged on the standard track. Plus, I think many test chairs aren't even aware there's a standard difference. Despite repeated reminders, my test chair hasn't changed our club's test forms to put in Adult Moves...Adult Freestyle's in there, but not Moves.

__________________
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

I don't think you're overlooking anything. It seems like the coverage has been especially lousy this year. Reports on the web site have not covered the comprehensive issues, but mainly the light fare & motivational comments of skaters. They certainly haven't provided the planning information needed by clubs & skaters. I guess the minutes will be available at some point, but I don't know why there isn't better & more factual reporting in the meantime on some of the business items.

My theory is that while Moves do have an enhancing effect on one's skating, whether one is a child or an adult, what we're seeing in adult skating is not so much having moves tests improving the overall level of skating, but a shift towards the type of skater who you would typically see in AN and other large adult competitions. My memories of AN in 2000 were that the playing fields for each event were in general larger and more diverse in terms of skill level. Now what I'm seeing is that it's the higher-level skaters (i.e. those with greater ability within each event level) who are more likely to return year after year or to enter adult skating for the first time.

Now whether what I'm claiming to see has to do with moves is speculative. It could be that with the advent of adult moves tests, struggling skaters could feel the pressure of the added expectations and requirements made of their skating (even if they don't test moves) and feel pressured to stop skating. Or it could be that these skaters simply could not pass the moves tests they were working on and didn't feel comfortable competing at their current freestyle level. Or, with the economic situation and the fact that competition entry fees are increasing sharply, this has become a breaking point for skaters who were financially struggling to get sufficient ice/instruction time in the first place, thus skewing the skating fields towards those with more resources and thus more access to ice/instruction time. Or, the shift we're seeing could simply be a cyclical thing.

I'm not sure which of these factors, if any, has a significant impact on the improved level of skating. But to say "improved skating, must be those adult moves tests" needs to be thought through a little more. I'm not yet convinced.

The combined action report has just been posted on the US Skating site. www.usfsa.org