In the falling leaf jump, is there a hook on the BO entrance edge before the takeoff, like there is in the loop jump? I keep forgetting to ask my instructor. I'll try to ask this week, but in the mean time I thought I'd see if y'all knew...

I was taught that the falling leaf and loop have the same exact takeoff.

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If the falling leaf is what I think we call a half-loop then the take off is exactly as a loop take off. I hope this helps. I'm not great at this jump mind, I'd rather do loop-loop combo any day!

Nicki

No, a falling leaf is not a half loop. It's only a half turn jump, so you take off backwards as if for a loop jump but you land forwards. Michele Kwan does a split falling leaf in many of her programs, where she sails through the air in a split position before landing forward.

Pat

OH is that what that is??? I always thought it was an odd take off for a split jump

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Well, what you describe is exactly what my coach calls a half-loop! Obviously some difference in terminology between the US and the UK!

Nicki

That's funny, Nicki. Here a half loop is actually a single revolution, but landed on the inside edge on the "wrong" foot. I can sometimes do a half loop but not a loop yet. So much easier to do the half loop landing! It does make more sense to name the falling leaf as a half loop though, since our half loop is actually one whole revolution.

Pat

We do a half-loop as a loop take-off but landing forwards on the toe of the other foot, so it's only a half-rotational jump from backwards to forwards. In our jumps class our coach gets us to do waltz jump - half-loop - toe-loop as a sequence. She's now just put that sequence into my daughter's new programme and it baffles me that my daughter can just go for it without the dithering that us adults in our class do!!! Personally I find a loop a whole lot easier to do than a half-loop!

Nicki

For a while I was doing a waltz jump - falling leaf- half flip sequence. I can do the falling leaf easily out of a good waltz jump, I guess because my weight really starts off in the right place. It's much harder for me to do the falling leaf on its own, although I haven't tried in a while. Hmnnn... maybe tonight!

Pat

I love the falling leaf, and put one at the end of a back outside spiral into a forward spiral. To me the 1/2 loop was a full jump lander on the "other" foot. Always seemed a strange name, as it was a full jump. It should really be called an inside loop.

A half loop is what Nicki is describing. A falling leaf takess off like a loop but then looks sorta like a split jump. Yes, it does land forward. A half loop is just a little hop that lands forward. Think about Michelle's falling leaf.

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A half loop isn't a little hop- it's a full revolution jump that lands on the opposite foot of the traditional "landing leg", and on the inside edge. It IS harder than a loop jump, by all accounts.

Uh, I would say it certainly is *not* harder than a loop jump. And I'm curious as to why you would state that. Is it because you cheat it or see a lot of others cheat the half-loop, i.e., by not getting the full rotation?
Anyway, it is a great little jump to have in one's arsenal. Think flip/half loop/salchow; salchow/half loop/salchow; salchow/half loop/flip; heck, flip/half loop/double salchow. Lots of possibilities.

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Would you guys mind explaining a few half jumps? I can do a fine waltz, but I don't think I get enough height to attempt a salchow or toe loop just yet.

I've been working on height with the bunny hop - funny because I thought it a worthless jump when I first learned it, but I've found it's a great way to work on height and distance...and have been doing better waltzes, but I think I need something more to practice on...

Cheers!

A lot of the "not so fast skaters" such as myself use the bunny hop to give themselves a kick start into such things as a step sequence.

I think doing some half jumps is not worth it. The half loop is good because you can do it in footwork, and it's very useful in sequences. However, I've found that, for example, learning the half-lutz (if CCW jumper, you pick back your right boot, turn a half rev, and land on your left foot, then immediately switch to glide on your right foot) is not very helpful at all for learning the lutz. And if you work on it too long, it gives your body the wrong memory for doing the full rev lutz. Still, some like these half jumps becasue it helps the beginner at least get a feel for the entrance and for some of the in-air rotation.

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
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.....I don't cheat my half loop (can you even do that, it's a loop so it's automatically rotated partially on the ice anyway?). Everyone is allowed to think certain things are harder than others without having someone imply that it's because they're doing it badly. I've had a 3loop for a long time and I hadn't even learned a half loop until a couple years ago, and it took me a heck of a long time to figure out the timing on it, and it's only a single rotation, so I think it's harder, and everyone I've ever asked about loop vs half loop agrees with me. I'm glad you got it easily, that doesn't make it simpler. Putting down the left leg when you're used to landing on the right leg is hard, so is checking the left inside edge before another jump when you're not used to it.

Half lutz and half flip aren't worthless to work on if only for one reason: it's on the pre-pre USFS freestyle test, so if you plan on testing it, you need to practice it. Meanwhile, I think it can be good or bad, depending, but you definitely shouldn't practice them too often or you will start to find it impossible to start rotating the jump, as Nova said. I think it helps beginners learn to check the 3-turn, and to hold the edge long enough (especially the outside edge in the half-lutz), and to pick far enough back, and to learn the dragging action and well as to jump straight up into the air, instead of pre-rotating, and for that, I think they are worth it. But I would wait until you are with your coach to tackle them, these are NOT the jumps you want to pick up bad habits on.

Give me a break!
You've landed a triple loop, but couldn't do a half-loop or hadn't even learned it? Oh, brother, now I've heard everything. The half-loop can be cheated--some folks only get a half rev on it.

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
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One thing the 1/2 loop is good for is if your regular landing foot is injured (like from too many double sal landings ), you can still jump. I think that's how I got a good falling leaf and a decent 1/2 loop.

As for the 1/2 rotation jumps, I like to teach them to beginners who may be on the timid side of learning jumps. Then after they learn it and get the feel of picking in and rotating - forget it! Although I do like to do a 1/2 flip, 1/2 flip, whole flip.

It seems that the only time I ever do a half loop is when I've screwed up my weight position on the regular loop!

Seriously, though, I grew up in ISIA, and they taught the half loop at the same time as the loop (both on Freestyle 4, I believe). They (ISI) use that jump far more in combinations than does the USFS, I think, since they require it on several tests. Personally, I never cared for the jump, and I absolutely hated the axel-half loop-double sal combo!

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Thanks for all the answers, plus all the info on the half loop! I've purposefully been avoiding working on the half loop because my trouble all along with the loop, when I was learning it, was putting down the free foot.

So I learned something interesting about the falling leaf--even though it is a BO edge takeoff just like the loop, I *can't* do it from back crossovers plus hook the same as the loop. Maybe that's just my technique for now, but there's just too much rotation and momentum for me to handle! So it will be back to waltz-falling leaf for now for me...

Well..... to me the half loop feels like a little hop. I use it as "step between" into other jumps in a combo. It is NOT harder than a loop.

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

I'm not sure where the 'tude is coming from, or why you're so pissed off that I had difficulty learning the half loop, but um, if my struggle with the half loop and fact that I was never taught it (because it's really not a required element in the first place...) troubles you this badly, then I apologize? Geez.