Okay. Trying to understand. (I left my psychiatry diploma in the chemistry lab again. )

Isn't a major part of the treatment learning behavior modification?

Wouldn't an incentive of not hurting others with your behavior be a stepping stone to recovery?

You mentioned "other issues". Such as?

Also you mention "control". Control of?

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Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau

I am not a psychology expert, but I think that if you have an eating disorder the eating disorder is much more important to you than how your loved ones feel about it. If not hurting others was an incentive, there would not be so many people with the disease. The majority have loving family and friends and as much as the family and friends try to help, it is up to the person with the disorder to want to get better, or nothing will work. Kind of like an alcoholic.

The alcoholism analogy is excellent. That's what I was going to use in my reply. I didn't keep throwing up everything I ate because I was selfish or insensitive to those around me -- I was really sick. Yes, behavioral modification is an aspect of treatment, but the behavior is just a symptom of a deeper problem. Bulimics or anorectics can't just stop because they're doing something that hurts somebody else. If I could've stopped, I would have. And an extra helping of guilt doesn't help matters, either. Quite frankly, it can have the opposite effect on bulimics or anorectics.

Here's another analogy. You know how they say overweight people never successfully keep weight off until they commit to doing it for themselves? It's the same thing with disordered eating. Until I decided I needed to get better for my own mental health, anything else was just a temporary behavioral change. I always went back to that behavior. Even though it was killing my family to see it.

"Control" is almost always central to an eating disorder, but the exact nature of the control varies from person to person. In my case, there were several aspects of my life that felt out of control to me (ex: my ballet, choice of schools, family situation), so I sort of subconsciously sought to exert control over other areas of my life. That manifested itself through my eating behavior. I never consciously said to myself, "My parents won't let me transfer to a private school in DC so I can accept the position with the ballet company, so I think I'll throw up everything I eat." It's more subtle and becomes a part of your psyche.

This is interesting.

So, how did you combat your illness?

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Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau

She said - when she was ready to get well for her own sake and not because other people wanted her to. Even still, I imagine there were a few mountains to climb.

I have never suffered from an eating disorder, but I can understand why someone might. If everything is out of control, and the only thing you can control is the contents of your stomach, or what you do or don't put in your mouth, or how much you weigh, then I can imagine this gives life a stability it might otherwise lack.

There are, of course, infinitely better ways of coping, but I can see that for a certain type of person, this would be a way to choose.

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Mrs Redboots
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I'm curious as to what helped her to decide or set her mind at ease to allow her to stop for her own sake.

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Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau

That's right, Annabel. I had good therapy, and I learned to place my control issues where they belonged. Only then did we work on behavior. To this day, when I'm under great emotional stress (like when I went through a divorce or when my mom died), those old control issues rear their heads. And I have to fight relapses all over again. At least now I've learned to recognize the onset of a relapse and I have some techniques I can use to reinforce positive behavior instead of self-destructive behavior.

I can understand that, Skaternum. I never had an eating disorder, but I smoked 40 a day for 25 years, and that was largely a control issue, when it wasn't an addiction one!

You know - and others in the same boat should know - that we fellow-skaters are always there for you if you need to rant, or vent, or just need support keeping your tea inside you!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Skaternum, kudos to you for getting help and for your honesty in posting about your experience. Best of luck to you in continuing the success you've had so far.

Mrs. Redboots, how were you able to stop smoking? I'm not a smoker myself, but several family members are and want to stop.

Has anyone here tried hynotherapy for weight or smoking issues? I'm constantly seeing ads that say it has a high success rate, but I'm skeptical as to whether this works or not. For weight, the ads focus more on weight loss but some of them do mention anorexia and bulemia. Several years ago I carpooled with a man who was successful in quitting smoking after doing hynotherapy. After about a year, though, he started smoking again.

Skaternum, what triggered you to seek therapy for yourself?

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Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau

My mother confronted me about it and made me go see a doctor. (I saw the doctor's notes a few years ago. I believe they said, "...accompanied by a concerned, garralous mother." Hee hee.) I didn't want to do so at the time, but once I got there, I started to realize that it was a real problem and that I needed help. It was hard to admit it was a real problem, but it was the one of the best things I've ever done for myself. Like a lot of bulimics, I came to it by way of anorexia first. I'd been abusing diet pills, over-exercising, and severly restricting caloric intake (down to about 900 KCal per day, if I recall, while still taking ballet class 4 times a week), but I never got down to the 80% mark that is used to diagnose full blown anorexia. Problem was, my personality type isn't suited for anorexia, so I couldn't stay with it. (Doesn't that sound stupid? It sounds like just another diet fad I couldn't keep up with.) I heard about self-purging while I was at a summer dance camp and, sadly, that was a perfect fit for my personality. I was pretty sly about it, so it took people a while to notice. My mom was actually glad that I'd put on some weight, so it took her a while before she figured it out.

And thanks to everyone for the encouragement. Luckily I haven't been under that kind of emotional stress for a while, so I haven't had any problems with it lately. It's always there, but I know I can control it. (See? There's that word again.) I was fortunate that I didn't have any long term problems with my teeth or esophogus, like a lot of bulimics. My immune system was pretty well shot for a long time, though. My student ID that got made when I started college was positively scary looking. I kept it for a long time as a reminder of how dangerous it all was.

I can joke about it now (former bulimics know all the good bulimic jokes!), but it's quite a serious issue, as is anorxia. It can be just as life threatening if left untreated. I went through the worst of mine in the early 80s, but now there are lots of treatment options and resources available. And HIPAA helps ensure privacy for people seeking help. Most insurance covers treatment now, too!

I'm not a doctor but this sounds more like thee symptoms of an ulcer than an eating disorder. I've had ulcers in the past and that's pretty much the way I felt. The good news is that ulcers are curable and much easier to resolve than an eating disorder.

Going to the doctor is a necessity, though.

I tried hypnosis for weight loss. It was at a time where I wanted to lose a few extra pounds I had gained. I had high hopes for the process but it did not work for me at all. It does work for some people. What I did find out, is that it is safe; it is basically a session with a hypnotist, and they say messages to help you with your goal. You feel conscious of it the whole time so it is not like something is happening you are not aware of or that they do anything to you. The fact that you feel somewhat alert and conscious made me feel better about the process.

I would never do it again as it is expensive and it did not do a thing for me but some people are successful with it.

Most places that do this give you tapes to take home and listen to as well to help reinforce the process.

Thanks for the info, Alexa. One of my coworkers mentioned today at lunch that she was thinking about trying hypnosis to help her lose weight and stop smoking. I took a group workshop years ago to help with pain management and did see an improvement. We mostly worked on general relaxation techniques and didn't do any individual sessions.

With difficulty! And the help of nicotine patches and fake cigarettes called "Crafe Away". Physically it was pretty dire, especially as I developed an allergic reaction to the patches and had to stop using them after about 3 weeks, but mentally it was terrifying. I felt like I was perched on the edge of an abyss and if I let go for one instant, I'd start to scream and scream and wouldn't be able to stop.

Hardest thing I've ever done, and most worthwhile.

Odd side-effects, too: I used to hate ylang-ylang essential oil, but while I was recovering from the addiction I craved it and craved it. And the first glass of wine I had after I'd stopped went straight to my head.

And nowadays, almost all my anxiety dreams include dreaming that I've started to smoke again, and oh, the relief when I wake up and find I haven't!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I have a feeling that im coming down with anorexia... Ive lost 4 pounds in two days! I havent been eating much, but I am sick. Still, I feel that I'm too heavy, not fat, heavy.

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I don't understand; you can't just "feel" like your coming down with anorexia, it's much more than that, and you don't even realize it-you just think that what you're doing is okay, and that as soon as you weigh less, all your problems will be solved...

It's not the way to go though...Hope you feel better!

I forget who mentioned it now and I can't find the post, but someone said that the behaviour is only the outward sign and it's true. One thing is that she doesn't even realize that she has a problem so why would she want to change if she thinks nothing's wrong? This has also been mentioned, but just to reiterate, a person with an eating disorder can't begin to get past it until they address it. I mean, I was reading my diary entries the other night from when I was at my worst, which was about 400 to 700 cal per day. At the time, I thought I was strong because I could muster up enough self-control to eat barely anything. I knew I wasn't eating, I even mentioned that I thought I might be showing tendencies towards anorexia, but I never came out and 'addressed it as a problem'. (I think sometimes it is possible to see in yourself that you have an eating disorder, but you don't think it's a problem because you have control over it - if you get really sick, you can always eat again - at least, that's how I thought of it)

Keep in mind that short term recovery would be force-feeding and forced hospitalization, but long term recovery would mean that she must see that she has a problem, which is hard for the people around her to help her with. But, such are eating disorders.

I'm just waiting until someone else passes away in my family and for the time when I'll have to deal with it again. That said:
skaternum, could you perhaps share some of your techniques for how you cope and resist the relapse?

This is just silly and doesn't have anything to do with an eating disorder. Anorxia isn't the flu, for goodness sake.

Gary. I would like to help you and others to better understand eating disorders. I am a recovering Anorexic who has suffered from this illness since the age of 12. For me my eating disorder is a way for me to have control of things in my life when everything else felt out of control. i use not eating as a way of not dealing with my emotions. if your body lacks nutritioin or the claoric intake that it needs your cognitive functions begin to slow and something as simple as rembering a telephone number is a very difficult task. so when i was really sick i had a very difficult time working and or going to school.
I realize what having my eating disorder has done to my family but i have had to make the decision that i am going to get better for me and me only. In the begining i tried only getting better for my family but when i became stressed i stop caring about my family I went back to my old ways of coping with my fealings. i had to make the decision that i was worth enough as a person to take care of me and to start to get better. this is whats helped me in my recovery. I still strugle but now that im only getting better for me and thats what keeps me strong.
Also the behavoirs that are being exhibited (the not eating or purging) are only symptoms of a much greater underlying problem and only once you start working on those issues in therapy will you start making progress towards full recovery.
If gary or anyone else has anymore questions for me feel free to write a post or IM me. I really want people to understand this desease. Hope this helps.

Hmmmm? Me thinks you're coming down with that stomach flu that's been going around the country lately! Eat BLAND foods and LOTS of clear liquids and rest should do the trick!

Get well soon!

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jazzpants

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Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Ya about this whole coming down with anorexia... Thats completly silly, and its been only 2 days. I think your sick, I was sick for like 2 weeks and I lost about 10 pounds. It didnt make me anorexic it made me sick and not feeling well. I'm really sure there is nothing to worry about, chicken noodle soup my friend! Plus anorexia is a disease most ppl dont even realize they have it because they totally unaware of it because of this diseases affects!
I hope you recover soon!!

A book that some of you might find helpful is "Conversations with Anorexics" by the late Hilda Bruch. She was a very good psychiatrist who specialized in treating people with eating disorders. Her book may be useful to former anorexics/bulimics, people who currently have eating disorders, and people who are concerned for loved ones. It is not a comprehensive book about the disorder but talks a lot about the psychology of the disorder and psychotherapy for people with eating disorders.

I did a group project on eating disorders in a psych class I took, and this is one of the books I came across. Having known a lot of girls with eating disorders or disordered eating, this helped me understand a lot more.

Another unrelated side note--If you've ever had an eating disorder or currently have one, you should not take the antidepressant medicine Wellbutrin (or Zyban, which is used to help with cigarette cessation). I'm not sure of the reason why, but it is always mentioned in the packaging leaflet. I discovered this while editing a book at work.

Alright well here's my deal. Im trying to keep fit and watch my figure because I want to be light to lift, but I've barely been eating and when I do stuff my face, I throw it all up. I don't know much about how anorexia develops but I know im not bulimic because I would have to induce the vomiting. Do I have a stomach problem or is my body just not used to having to hold so much food anymore? I don't want to be anorexic!

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I don't have experience with eating disorders, although I have gone through anxiety disorder. I would suggest that you talk with your parents (assuming you are a kid) and/or your family doctor to make sure that there are not physical problems. If there are no physical problems, then they can help you get the information you need to help you fight the development of an eating disorder. Good luck - remember that staying healthy is much more important than being light to lift.

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