So here's what I noticed when I watched a vid of myself recently working on Silver moves. My upper body is like a spaghetti factory!! I may have thought that I'd made some improvement in keeping my arms still and my shoulders aligned (and maybe I have, but it sure isn't enough!).

It's not that I lack in upper body strength! I think I use my upper body a lot to compensate for lower-body errors, or my instinct is to do so--you know, wave the arms, twitch the shoulders to regain balance?

Anybody have ideas on ways to get the upper body looking less noodly and more stable and sure?

__________________
"Go wash an elephant if you wanna do something big." -Baby Gramps

Break down the moves into single units of upper body alignment, then, making sure you know where everything should be, practice each segment by itself. Do it on a circle if you can, as it helps to think "back to circle, arms over circle...etc.) If you are flailing on power pulls, you are probably swinging your arms forward and back, instead of twisting your torso R and L. Do them skating directly towards the end of the rink where the glass is not curved so you can watch yourself in the glass. Also practice at home in front of a mirror, just twisting your torso, with your arms straight out and not moving except as required because they are attached to your shoulders. Your coach should be able to help you with this.

__________________

My coach has me do LOTS of skating w/ my hands behind my back, or overhead in 5th postition (less scary than fully behind when you're not used to it). It helps tremendously because it removes that 'crutch' and forces you to skate w/ good posture & using your knees.

If you try it, be careful & start w/ simple stroking to get use to it before you try anything more complicated.

I've noticed on turns that I'm still not 100% happy on, I scrunch the fingers on one hand. What the coaches are seeing is arms flailing wildly. My dance coach asked me to focus on keeping my hands still (ie not scrunch fingers up) and that seems to be working. It's a small thing to focus on (I'd probably not be able to do the turn if I was asked to focus on keeping arms and shoulders still), but it's enough to correct all the arm movement.

Might be worth a try.

I've found that the reason I flail my arms is often not an "arm problem," but something else I'm doing wrong that's making me need to use the arms to save the move. For example on the preliminary 3's on the line, I could not for the life of me keep my arms and shoulders under control. My coach noticed that I was letting my free foot kind of drift out to the side after the turn (probably in anticipation of having to step forward) Concentrating on keeping the free toe glued to the skating heel, and voila! checking the arms and shoulders (and therefore keeping them still) was much easier.

This isn't always true, but it has been a number of times. If there are certain things you flail on more than others, try making sure it's not something you're doing lower down that's throwing you off.

Do at least 5 minutes of stroking towards the hockey glass, so you can see if you "flap" when you skate. I have my skaters try to keep their upper body motionless while they stroke with deeply bent knees.


To stabilize the arms on Moves, one of the best tricks is to think of "toy soldier arms." You know how soldiers swing their arms when they march, keeping the arms close to the body? That's the look that "checks" flailing limbs.

Another really good tip is to hold your hands at waist level with the palms flat and parallel to the ice. It's the traditional "Figures" way of checking, but it stops dangling and swinging.

I like to teach upper-body checking in relation to the skating foot - (l/r) shoulder in front, hand over tracing, (r/l) shoulder in back, behind your butt!

Champion cords work really well to synchronize upper-body check and keep them moving together. Just put it through the sleeves of your shirt/jacket, across your back, and slip the ends over both wrists. It limits how far the skater can check forward and provides a gentle reminder about not flapping your wings.


I agree with the others who said upper-body motion comes from poor use of lower-body muscles. If you're not staying down on a bent knee over your skating foot, you'll rock on the blade and your upper body will bob. That makes the skater lose their balance a bit and, to compensate, they move their arms to regain balance. Focus on controlling the lower body and checking the arms/shoulders will be much easier.

__________________

I tell my skaters to put tension through their palms, as if they are feeling an opposing force pushing up on the palms of their hands. Usually I will apply the pressure for them to understand how it feels. This usually works very well.

Lack of upper body control is due to a lack of core stability and strength, and (I agree with other posters) lack of correct lower body mechanics. As for core strength, if a skater has a weak core, he or she will tend to break at the waist. This will cause the arms to move to compensate and balance the body.

__________________
Visit www.sk8strong.com for complete off-ice training information and sport specific DVDs for figure skaters

That's a great technique - thanks!

I do something similar for spiral stretches - I hold their foot and have them press down on my hand. I tell them to relax their muscles and lo and behold, everyone's leg can stretch a little higher than the prior attempt.

Of course, that doesn't give them the strength to lift it on their own to that height, but it builds some flexibility and limbers them up a bit.

__________________

CORE STRENGTH!!!!

I notice also when I see younger skaters who are wibbly wobbly wet noodley all over, they just haven't learned yet how to use all their muscle groups together. I think with adults, especially those who have done other sports and physical activities, we know how to do that, it's just that focusing on one thing tends to make us forget about others. Or you may feel like you're doing what your coach is telling you to do (whether it's bending a knee, twisting at the waist, any other little thing we are constantly reminded of), and you genuinely may be trying to do it as much as you can and feel like you are, but you're still not doing it enough--video can REALLY help you see this.

I don't get noodley, but my "focusing on something else" bad habit is letting my arms come up and straight out, which makes my shoulders come up, and in turn makes me lose knee bend. I have all the years of synchro to thank for that. My coach calls it my imaginary synchro team.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Thanks for the ideas, folks!

I think it does stem from doing things wrong down below (if I'm not on the right part of the blade or my balance is off, hey, I can throw my arm around!). And trying to keep about 12 commands in my head at the same time (for example, those 3s in the field: where's your free foot? you're dropping your free hip! don't look down! look in the direction you're going! tuck your butt under! bend your knees! get your weight over your skating foot! don't let your shoulders get crooked! and so on).

I don't swing my arms on power pulls, although I've seen that approach. Not really sure how that would work.

I have done lots of other sports and dance, but it's apparently not rubbing off on my skating enough. That quiet upper body I was so good at in ski racing? Those graceful hands from ballet? HA! I probably do need to work on different core strength moves, too--more yoga, more BOSU and such. I will definitely try the hands behind the back or over the head for a start. This morning I did a lot of 3-turns in front of the glass, watching my upper body very closely. Hopefully that helped.

Interesting comments about synchro. I know our synchro coach uses synchro as a method of teaching both basics and challenging the better skaters. For instance, I'd never know how to do a FI twizzle or a FI-BI counter, or outside swing mohawks, were it not for synchro!

__________________
"Go wash an elephant if you wanna do something big." -Baby Gramps

This thread just proves that we need more access to figures!!!!!

Just sayin'...

For me, unsteady arms have almost always been a reaction to something that was off with my lower body. On Silver moves (particularly the back 3's), I remember finally beginning to understand when I needed to have my chest to the inside of my circle and when I needed to have my back to the inside of my circle. For example, on both back outside and back inside 3's, you want to start at the top of the circle (12:00) looking into the circle (i.e., chest facing inside the circle and arms sort of hugging the circle), then start gently scissoring the arms and turning the head at 1:00/11:00, so that as you reach the midpoint of the circle (3:00/9:00), your chest and face are facing outside the circle. I also figured out that when I could see the 5:00/7:00 spot on the circle behind me looking over my shoulder, that meant I was actually at 3:00/9:00 and it was time to turn. By gently pre-rotating the torso, you just let your lower body catch up, rather than rotating everything at once and spinning yourself around. And of course bending your ankle and pressing the ball of the blade into the ice before the turn helps a lot with stability, too.

__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Yup, this is exactly what my coach teaches. YES, she happens to be a figures veteran and very much teaches using a figures-based approach (and even will bring out the scribe every now and then!).

The pushing the blade into the ice and pushing the palms of the hands down should help--we've been doing some of the pushing the arms/hands down and that tends to help.

__________________
"Go wash an elephant if you wanna do something big." -Baby Gramps

Isn't it weird how it helps so much to push your palms down toward the ice? It really works, though, doesn't it?!

__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Pressing the palms down activates all the muscles on the underside of the arms giving all the core muscles a "wall" to work against.
My coach (very figures-minded) is constantly reminding me to flatten the palms, press the thru heel of the hand when I have trouble checking.

Yes, I feel like I have that problem too! In some cases, I feel like it's my upper body throwing me off maybe. In other cases, I can definitely tell I'm trying to use my upper body to stay on balance because my lower body is doing something wrong.I've been told this as well. I try to make sure I feel my arms brush my body as I change them on edges, for example.
LOL, yes, palms flat! Not long ago my instructor noticed that on edges, my back hand kinda curls into a sideways claw with my palm pointing toward the back, and pulls my arm around my back, which throws me off because my whole upper body twists. I never would've noticed on my own--I was too busy worrying about what my feet were doing! i still catch myself doing it sometimes, and it does make a big difference.

I'm gonna try this...I bet it'll do me good.

My power pulls are atrocious, lol. It's easier when I DON'T flail my arms, but it's a hard temptation to get rid of! I know my problem is all lower body there, though. I can do a two-footed slalom no problem, but having to keep all that balance on just ONE foot? Terrifying, because I KNOW I will hit the ice because I don't have enough edge control not to.


{Okay, small hijack, sorry, but I always get confused. When doing edges, I can never remember which way I should be facing to start. On FI edges, i start facing inside the arc (toward the line) then rotate to face outside it, right? Then on FO edges, I start facing outside the arc (away from the line) and rotate to face inside, yes? It's backward edges I get really confused on...is it the same way? BI edges I start facing inside then turn to the outside, and BO edges I start facing outside then turn to the inside?}