I regularly do both in warm-up and I think the double 3s are a lot easier than the alternating 3s because they don't have that BI-FO transition. On the doubles, once you get the first 3 around, checking the 2nd 3 and the transition between feet is a lot easier than the transition on the alternating 3s. I've heard the same from other coaches at PSA seminars I've been to--that they should either be the other way around or together on the same test.


Tip for learning loops: Work with a coach who was good at figures back in the day (and not a younger coach who did either very little figures or none at all). They usually know how to teach them well. They're tricky, but the right coach can get you to do them. On a side note, Tonia Kwiatkowski coaches at my rink, and one day a few weeks ago she had a little free time on a session d/t a cancellaton so she just started doing old figures patterns, her loops were textbook perfect. It was so cool to watch. A lot of the kids/teens didn't even really understand what the heck she was doing, since they had heard of figures but never saw someone doing them.

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2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Yeah for loops!!

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Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

My chorographer showed them to me, trying to get me to put one in my program after exiting a back sit spin (YARITE!). I'll really have to start working on them but I did convince her to take it out for now. She does teach them well and she passed her 4th figure. We havea fun talk about figures and how the judges would get out there on tests on their hands and knees to inspect the figures, and how you had to draw the circles perfectly without a scribe. Sounds HARD!

I'd love to watch Tonia do figures, she was a big favorite of mine back in the day and that'd be a treat to watch her. I'm LOL'ing at the kids not really knowing what she was doing.

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"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Huh, my coach just started trying to teach them all to me.

I can now do LFO loop most of the time, sometimes pretty nice ones and sometimes not so nice, but after a couple days of practice more of them do loop than fail completely.

On the other hand I can't do RFO or either of the forward inside ones at all.

I can do RBO but not LBO, and I can do both of the back inside ones, preferably from the exit of a forward outside three.

So of 8 possible loops, I can now do half of them, but only one forward loop. Nor could I possible attempt the proposed junior back loop pattern.

Yeah, either way.

Well, for adult ice dancers going through the adult dance test structure there's no requirement to test moves in the field at all, either adult or standard. So it's possible that this skater and others the coach was thinking of had only ever tested compulsory dances, which don't include all the turns but do include plenty of forward outside threes if that's where the issue was.

Heh. Well, in that case can an adult skater who passed only one or two tests as a kid switch over to the adult-only track when s/he gets to higher levels?

I only passed preliminary figures as a kid. I passed standard pre-pre and preliminary moves as an adult (because I'd already passed bronze freestyle as an adult before adult moves were introduced), and I'll be happy to take either prejuvenile or silver moves, or both, once I get my back threes consistent enough. I think I could do the new back circle eight move tomorrow better than most kids who have passed preliminary and are working on prejuvenile moves, although once this proposal passes and they learn it and start practicing more often than I do they'd quickly catch up on that skill. An adult who never did figures would be behind both me and the kids on that move.

Or I could take the silver and maybe eventually gold moves as an adult with some kid-skating experience. But given my level of fitness, injuries, and the fact that I'll be well into my 50s before I'd be ready to test the gold much less intermediate moves, I wouldn't want the fact that I skated for a couple years as a teenager and passed one test to class me with 22-year-olds who started skating in high school and never stopped rather than with other middle-aged adults who never tested as kids but may have had other advantages in physical fitness.

Something like the dance adult and masters standards would partially solve that problem. But there are far more variables in skating history and physical condition across the age range 21-80+ than in the age range 5-20, despite the wide variety in skater size in that younger range, so there will never be a completely even playing field.

I rushed to pass my pre-bronze FS to get granfathered in before adult moves tests came about because alternating 3s were on the adult pre-bronze moves at the time and I knew I'd never be able to pass that test. I've passed bronze moves and my 3 turns have GREATLY improved but I still can't hold the exit to the line and start the next turn. Now you can "should" on me all you like but the fact is if they had left the alternating turns on the pre-bronze test and I had to take it I would not be a better skater today, I'd be a worse skater because I woud not even try to pass any more tests.

joelle

Those F alt threes on the line in Prelim have been a big stumbling block for me for years! I'm getting closer, but still no cigar. If they would but allow a simple toe tap, I bet a lot of us could get through them. The addition of the figure eights makes me , as I have been working on them anyway, and could probably pass them in that context.

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I absolutely agree everything you said about the Intermediate twizzles. I tried them today, and they went much more smoothly than I expected. Actually, I thought they were kind of fun. The BI to FO transition did take a lot of control though.

I thought the forward loop pattern was really tough. I can do the loops (most of the time), and they're fairly well placed, but holding the exit edge back to the blue line without wobbling, touching the free foot down, or grinding to a halt??? Yikes. That's going to take some work. Plus the patterns shows that 8 loops should get you all the way across the width of the rink. 8 loops got me closer to 3/4 of the way across the rink. I think this is a really challenging move for the intermediate level.

Well, true on some level, but there is "clean" and then there is "figures clean" - no changes of edge or flats, smooth, round, even "shoulders" (of the 3), no spoons or... whatever else they call all of those things that made a figure 3 not clean - but yes, of course I know what you mean - scraped 3s are not particularly accepatble...

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

I tried the new Senior moves today. The spiral pattern is now stupidly easy. Can I do this spiral pattern with the old circular pattern, pretty please?

The circular pattern is definitely more difficult, but I do like the twizzles (whee!) and the BI counter/FI rocker on the same foot. The tough parts for me were the toe pick steps, which I've always been rotten at, and the double rocker right near the end where there used to be a step behind.

What I noticed the most is that since there are a grillion steps in this move, you really have to go slow to fit everything in. I could've done a circle and a half, doing it at "regular" circle pattern speed. It doesn't develop any kind of speed or push, something that concerns me with the elimination of all the stroking.

Has anyone heard anything about the figure 8's? Are the circles supposed to be within 3 inches of each other as in figures? I'm definitely OK if that's not a big issue, but will need significantly more practice if it is.

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I had my coach take me through the 2 new Junior moves and while they are difficult they are actually pretty fun. The back inside loops are easy but the steps into them are pretty difficult and require a lot of bend and core strength, the outside loops are easier than they might seem. I've managed the right foot footwork pattern and will try the left wednesday but all in all I think these are pretty doable and will definitely build good skills for all skaters.

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Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

You mean the tracings? If you look at the videos there are no tracings. You do an outside 8 first and then an inside 8 - all within the same "figure" - well, I suppose you could do the inside 8 on the "tracing" of the outside 8 but I doubt if it will be done that way - no one will be out there measuring 3" - (actually I've never heard 3" -mostly the tracings should be as close to each other as possible!) -- maybe 3" is a roller-figure rule?

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

Yes, tracings, the word deserted me . My coach said 3" was the passing standard for tracings in the figures tests. Of course, those judges are not going to go out and measure ! And I was thinking of the FI 8 tracing being right on the FO 8 tracing. Guess I'm thinking that way because when I practice them, that's what I'm striving for.

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For those of you who are familiar with the current novice moves: Are the new ones that much harder? I'm not familiar with any of the patterns, so I can't really tell. I was talking about the proposals with my coach yesterday and she is confident that I can get through Intermediate pretty soon (I passed Gold moves in May and have been working on Intermediate since then). Her question to me was whether I wanted to push to test Intermediate right away and try to get through Novice before the changes go into effect. It sounds overly ambitious for me, but if there is a huge difference in difficulty, I might give it a try.

I don't think they're harder. They actually took 2 patterns, each foot (the quick rocker choctaws with stroking down the sides in each direction and the FI-BO 3 turns with stroking down the sides in each direction)--4 laps around the rink basically, and combined the WHOLE thing into one serpentine pattern with a lobe on each foot of the FI-BO 3s and then a lobe on each foot of the quick rocker choctaws. You onlyl have to do 1 lobe of each foot versus 2 end patterns on each foot the "old" way. I think this actually makes the rocker choctaws easier, because the current way of having to do them, you need to keep them a little more flat going across the short axis (to fit that in and the stroking for a skater with the strength of someone doing novice MIF). With the new pattern you can curve the arc you're doing them on more naturally. Not to mention this cuts down the time for the test drastically...novice is a LONG test as-is. The pattern will be a pain in the butt to practice on a crowded session, but whatever.

They also got rid of the stupid bracket-3-bracket pattern (so jealous, I had to do that twice, on both intermediate AND novice back in the day).

The new twizzle pattern doesn't look too terrible for someone who's been working on twizzles, but that may just be because I personally find backward twizzles much easier than forward (we always did backward in synchro on my last team so that may be why). I'd rather to that twizzle pattern that stupid old bracket-3-bracket.

Spiral pattern doesn't look any more difficult than the old one, either.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

I agree with you on the pattern changes. I don't know how many skaters I teach that can't grasp that the rocker choctaws and FI-BO three-turns are still on a curve...just a really awkward curve! I think that the new patterns will allow for a more natural execution.

I know! I had to do the same thing when I tested those! In fact, I never had to do the current Intermediate pattern of brackets until I began teaching them. Way, way easier.

I don't know, there's something to be said for having enough control to do the steps on a big circle. I can do the quick mohawks from Senior in a little spinny circle easily, but keeping them controlled enough to do in the patterns is more challenging.

I'm late to the discussion, but I wanted to express my love for the changes! It's about time they incorporated loops and twizzles. I think Intermediate is the perfect place to introduce loops since in figures they were introduced on the 3rd test, which is the Intermediate level. And the earlier the better, especially since loops and twizzles will be integral if skaters want to get higher levels on step sequences in IJS.

I agree. . . but am annoyed that the changes are going to force me to, er, "skate or get off the pot" on my Intermediate MIF test!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Not only is it easier and but it actually teaches brackets on a lobe like they are supposed to be, not the bracket-3-bracket you can get away with doing practically flat, which is also exactly how we did them in synchro for years until IJS, so I never really learned how to do a real bracket. Until I had to study for my PSA BA exam 3 yrs ago and went and actually learned the current Int pattern (which I also never had to do), I couldn't have told you what edges were actually used in a bracket.

If anyone has any questions on the new moves patterns, I know one of the committee members and will gladly forward them to her.

The coach of my old synchro team (Holly Teets of the Crystallettes) is on the committee. She posted this in a similar new MIF pattern thread on synchroboards.com:

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

This move is not necessarily designed to be skated on a "little spinny circle", which would not allow for adequate ice coverage, so skaters will still need to have that control to perform the steps on the gradual curve of the new pattern, plus the control to execute the turns with the required quickness.

On a bit of an unrelated note, I had one of my skaters who's currently on her Preliminary MIF test out the new pattern for the forward and backward crossovers and she absolutely loved them! ("That was so much easier," she told me.)

I then had her try out the forward circle 8, which she liked as well.

Right. The arcs in the new move aren't small, those 4 big lobes cover the entire ice surface, but they allow the skater to curve the moves more naturally rather than having to keep them flat as before because you ran out of enough room to arc them with the stroking that was involved.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

I regularly hit the boards on my rocker/choctaws both directions!! I just can't seem to keep them flat enough....

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Skating Dreams

"All your life you are told the things you cannot do. All your life they will say you're not good enough or strong enough or talented enough; they will say you're the wrong height or the wrong weight or the wrong type to play this or be this or achieve this. THEY WILL TELL YOU NO, a thousand times no, until all the no's become meaningless. All your life they will tell you no, quite firmly and very quickly. AND YOU WILL TELL THEM YES." --Nike

I think the idea on these is to keep the lobes of the stroking deep so that you start the end pattern earlier. If the stroking is more diagonal, it'll screw up your end pattern big time. I did the opening rocker just prior to the hockey dot, which helped keep the end pattern rounder.

I used to skate in a shorter-than-normal rink (about 15' shorter) back when I was working on this test. That really sucked, there was nothing you could really do other than hardly push on the stroking. (And this was how I fell out the zamboni door at the end of the rink and broke a rib.)

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything