After talking with my coach, she wants me to compete next year as "no-test." I can understand her rationale, but I'm not too happy about this and told her as much She wants me to be very solid on all my moves and jumps before I test AND she wants me to have some ISI comps under my belt before I compete USFSA (although she admits adult track is different and has never seen an adult comp).

So, I may not be taking any pre-bronze moves/freestyle tests this coming spring

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

If they say "any spin" what about a 2-foot spin?

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

I could only do a 2 foot spin in both direction. My coach, OTOH, can do both directions. Apparently he was originally a CW skater (like me) but had to switch over to CCW mid-stream. But occasionally he would try doing them in MY direction during my lesson just to see if he could do it. (Also, his former pairs partner is a CW skater as well.)

I think you have an evil "Spin Nazi" behind that choice of spins for the event, IMHO!

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Tim, they had the exact same language on last year's application. It says that they MAY divide the events. I'm sure it depends on how many skaters register for each event, and where the age breakdowns are.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

Well, I can understand your coach's rationale that you should be completely ready for your test before you put the tests out. Obviously, your coach wants you to pass, and especially since it's your first time testing USFSA (very different than testing ISI, from what I have heard), it makes sense that she wants you to be above passing standard (those of us who have tested know how nerves can knock you down a notch, or 2, or 3....).

But, as you said, adult track is different from standard track. If your coach has only worked with kids, then it's understandable why she would want you to stay a no-test for a while - that's what kids do. But adult comps are different (if you got (or want to order - you still can) the video of Pre-Bronze FS at HC, you might want to show it to her so she can see what an adult comp looks like). Actually, not many adult comps (I think HC and Peach are the only ones on the east coast) offer No-Test competition. Generally, most no-test adults compete Pre-Bronze.

I competed at NYI 2 years ago as a no-test - it was my first competition - in Pre-Bronze. My program had a sal-toe, a waltz-toe, 2 half flips, a half-lutz, a toe loop, and a solo sal. I had 3 spins in the program - sit (which definitely did not "sit" - lol), forward scratch, and a backspin that was basically a FI double 3-turn - my coach originally had a 2-foot spin there but then we started practicing it with the backspin and decided to leave it in just to have something to challenge me (beyond actually competing - lol). I also did 2 spirals. No footwork (hey, what steps could I do?). I finished 3rd out of 4 (well, I tied for 2nd but lost the tiebreaker) but 2 judges put me 1st (WTF, but I'll take it ). And I had a great time.

It sounds like your coach needs to see what Pre-Bronze competitions look like, so try to get a video of HC, or bring her to NYI for a day. Also remind her that most comps (HC has been an exception, b/c of the numbers) split Pre-Bronze by age class, so what the 21-28 year-olds are doing will be different than what the 46+ group(s) do.

Edited to add that you may want to consider doing some Basic Skills competitions to get some comp experience under your belt. There is one next weekend (part of a larger comp) at SC Wilmington, so you could go and watch. The Pond has one at the end of March/beginning of April and so does Ice World in Harford County, MD. They are similar to ISI comps in that you can only include elements from your comp level or lower. Unfortunately, not many adults do these comps so if you compete one of the FS levels (they have both compulsories (w/o music) and program (w/music)), you'll likely have only kids in your group. They also offer Limited No-Test (no flip or lutz)and No-Test categories, but kids competing in these tend to be really sharp. Last year, both The Pond and Ice World had an Adult Bronze category, but that was designed for adults that passed Pre-Bronze or Bronze FS (once you pass a USFSA FS test, you are unable to compete in the "badge" levels (ex: FS 4) and these comps also offer Pre-Prelim and Prelim FS for the kids, so it's nice that they offered the adult equivalent).

That's an odd comment from someone who has NOT seen an USFSA adult competition!!!

For Pre-Bronze, I have seen jumps up to a flip-loop and a lutz (usually wimpy but technically a lutz!) I've also seen good one foot spins and sit spins and an occasional camel. If you get someone with a camel-sit and solid flip-loops, as I have in the past, usually that person's Bronze tests is not too far behind! I've also seen LOTS of footwork too and an occasional former gymnast who can do a nice high spiral, Y-spiral or a hydroblade. At Sectionals, I have seen up to a lutz. (Of course, based on the new USFSA well-balanced program passed this year, you can have only up to a flip-loop), I expect to see a flip loop or two! I'm not even considered competitive even at Pre-Bronze but I'm getting there.

So... given that, the question to ask is 1) whether you think you can keep up with those skaters and 2) if not, whether you're willing to skate at the Pre-Bronze level, no matter what the placements are? (And this is coming from someone who has consistently been at the cellar (we didn't have no-test comps back in 2000-2001), to "somewhere in the middle"... up to this year, where I actually won the comp! (and NOW we have no-test comps!!! ) )

So if you have no competition experience and you don't have those elements mentioned in the Pre-Bronze comps, your coach is right to suggest ISI to get a sense of what it's like first. What I think she should also suggest though IS to try "no-test" USFSA comps (i.e. you join your skating club but NOT test up to Pre-Bronze) first and see how things go.

ETA: If you do feel a need to test something, I suggest you work on JUST the moves test, NOT the freestyle test!!! (You guys with a rulebook...are you still considered a "no-test" as long as you don't pass the FS tests?)

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Generally, yes (I don't have my rule book handy at work though)

For example, many times on the standard track you'll see kids who will have tested all the way through Senior MIF but be only competing Intermediate or maybe Novice FS. A lot of coaches have a philosophy of "getting the MIF tests over and done with"... a few years ago there was a spate of kids at the Juvenile (and clearly Juvenile) who were taking AND PASSING Senior MIF (I saw a few of those tests and IMHO most of them did not meet the criteria printed on the top of the form "must present a gold medal performance" or something similar).

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

The Adult program including competitons and testing is significantly different from the kids.
If your coach can not, or is not interested in seeing adult events, then perhaps she can team teach you with a coach who has adult experience. If a skater is interested in competing I think it's vital to have a coach with this experience. I wouldn't send a kid who's interested in competition to a coach with no kid experience.

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

I will be ordering the video from the guy that taped the HC (no-test and pre-bronze). I'm just a bit bummed out and feeling a bit impatient and sort of left behind! I understand her rationale behind everything though. I would be seriously out of my league if I competed at a pre-bronze level right now

I will be working hard to get the jumps that she wants me to get. Right now the only good ones I've got are my waltz and salchow. My scratch spin isn't consistent. The only decent thing I've got that's consistent is my spiral.... I don't have everything I need at this point, and no good footwork, no decent mohawks, no speed on my 3-turns (still freak me out)....No toe-loop, loop, 1/2 flip, 1/2 lutz, etc. No sit spin (I'm trying) or camel (haven't even touched on that)... No artistry...

I know comps are different than skating in shows, so I will be doing some of the ISI comps in my area. Skate Annapolis is one. We will have an in-house in April. I'm scouting around for others that are in late spring. I also get ticked off because my rink closes for the whole summer and that really sets me back.

Debbie-We did go to The Pond last year for that comp-many of our rink kids skated in it. I think our oldest rink kid was 17 at the time. I don't think they had any adult categories and I don't recall seeing any there. There were many great skaters there! That's my summertime rink when I can stand the drive up.

PS-All of our coaches are used to working with kids, some work with adults; however, none have ever put adults on the ice at a competition. Our rink has only been open a few years and has only been geared towards recreational skating-shows and hockey with learn-to-skate classes. Competition has just recently come into the spotlight. Last year was the first year most of our kids went to a competition to compete (Skate Annapolis then The Pond).

As far as the adults go, there are only 2 adults interested in testing-me and one other (out of the 15 adults taking classes/coaching). This is a new experience for everyone, especially for some of the other adults who didn't know you could compete as an adult skater!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I understand your frustration. I think we've all felt that way at one time or another. It sounds like you're trying to get a lot of elements all at once. Focus on what your coach feels has priority. If you try to do too much at once, it'll be much harder to improve each element (b/c you'll have less time for each one). From your posts, it sounds like you've come a long way despite challenges (seasonal rink, etc.). Don't give up!

Sounds like there's a lot for everyone to learn about adult comps. You're doing the right thing by going to comps and watching the videos, etc.

As for The Pond, I thought they offered an Adult Bronze category, but I guess no one signed up. I couldn't do it b/c of a conflict with the date. Ice World offered the category and 1 adult signed up, so she did an exhibition skate. The Chesapeake Open (at Mt. Pleasant rink in Baltimore) which is usually in June (I think it will be in July this year) offered a Basic Skills comp as part of the overall comp for the first time last year. I know one adult who competed, and she liked the experience, although she needed a thick skin - lol. She finished 3rd out of 3 (which she was fine with), but when she stood on the medal podium, she was still taller than the 2 kids who finished ahead of her and, like the kids, was given a teddy bear to hold on the podium along with her medal - lol. She actually competed in No-Test at HC and won (she's in the purple dress).

Yeah, I'm just really frustrated....every lesson I'm given something else new (from pre-bronze through bronze elements). I don't have a routine yet for our in-house exhibition (Dec 10)...I need to tell her on Wednesday that we need to crank one out! After all, that's also what I'm paying her for!

I'm no way ready for anything Bronze level!!! AAAHHH!!!! I've got lots of work to do....I'll have to look out for the Chesapeake Open---if it's basic skills, that might be right up my alley! Although I might have a time with finding ice, I think I will be ok if I can get there the day before.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Frequently - I can never remember which way I'm supposed to spin..... I actually find spinning clockwise easier, but have to spin anti-clockwise with the Husband, and just get generally muddled....

Actually, I think it was Robin Cousins who had spins in both directions as part of his Olympic-winning programme, wasn't it?

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Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I can do a few things in both directions from teaching "other way" skaters - a waltz, salchow, and a 1 foot spin, but that doesn't mean they are competition quality!

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

Skate@Delaware--you might want to check out the Pre-Bronze FS event at this weekend's Autumn Skate/Diamond Classic up in Wilmington. (My apologies if someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread--I skimmed quickly).

Sexyskates--I can (sorta) backspin in both directions. I can't do forward spin in the "other" direction, but I'm CW and I learned a CCW backspin first. I kept up with it as I've been working on my CW backspin just because I figured I'd learn what to improve on one side from working on the other. On a good day, I can eke out more than the required revs (3) for the Bronze FS test, with better speed than when I was just learning the backspin, but on a bad day, I can barely get it going in either direction. I guess another way of saying it is that sometimes my backspin is equally bad on both sides, lol! I also have the beginnings of a back sit in the "other direction" (CCW) for me, whereas in my regular direction, it's REALLY bad (like, unrecognizable).

Edited to add: I think Rohene Ward can jump in both directions. I'm not sure if he spins in both directions or not (maybe Jazzpants can confirm this). I only get to see him on TV during sectionals and the like. (And skaters who have gone really high in the ISI test structure have to jump in both directions, I think.)

Maybe the people who chose the spins for the NYI event were channelling Kwan, Kostner, or Buttle the day they picked the spins, since those skaters do camel spins in both directions....

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I can't imagine spinning in the other direction, personally, but I don't think it's all that uncommon for elite skaters who are also coaching. I know my primary coach can jump and spin in each direction. Sometimes he forgets that I'm a clockwise skater and shows me something the wrong way, and then we both have a good laugh about it. My other two coaches can do some things, too, in their wrong direction, but I think they may be less comfortable about it. They all say that spinning in the wrong direction makes them very dizzy!

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August 22, back on the ice!

Well, NaomiBeth and I tried spinning "the other direction" on Sunday night and were not terribly sucessful. I will try it a bit more since it may be good for my "bad side on back crossovers", if I could do the wind up and all. Otherever I'm not sure I really want to do it in a competition. I also wanted to compete in the Gold MITF because I'm working on them. But there is that advanced move I've never done. I think I'll pass, because I'm challenged enough right now. How many of you out there are thinking of doing these everts?

The Worcester (MA) Open offers Beginner/No Test Adult FS. This spring it's the same weekend as Adult Nationals (March 31, April 1 and Second) but for people who aren't making the trek to Dallas, it's a nice friendly competition. And the medals are lovely.

I understand they're also offering dance events plus Basic Skills and Special Olympics events also.

I was thinking about doing the Silver spin event, but I'm now thinking I'll pass. I don't want to spend too much time focusing on the "WRONG" direction, and taking away from the little time left I have to piece together a new a new freestyle program.

I think the idea of spinning in both directions is a neat idea, but maybe they should have saved it for Gold.

Thanks for all the info, guys. I guess I really needed to vent my frustration. Now I'll move on.

My daughter has been working on spinning in the "other" direction with some success; however, there is a woman in my adult class who can spin and jump in either direction!!! It sort of trips her up at times, because she has been told to pick one direction (for now) and work on that....but she sometimes forgets which direction she has picked (bless her heart!) She has an awesome spiral and can do a Charlotte! She is a former gymnast... Mika, she is about your size, but a bit older than me!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Maybe by "any spin in both directions" they meant forwards and backwards, not clockwise and counter-clockwise? Forwards and backwards would qualify as "both directions" and that seems like a much more rational requirement. It seems so odd to ask skaters to learn a completely opposite rotational direction. I think it would be worth asking the LOC to better explain this. I haven't seen the announcement, so I don't know what the actual wording is.

Yup! Rohene sure can spin in both direction! And I sure felt like he was channeling Kwan in that particular spin sequence!!!

And yes, after about ISI FS6, you HAVE to start doing jumps (I think) in the opposite direction. In fact, when ISI Worlds was here, I remember ONE guy in particular that is supposed to do alternating axels in both directions. (Not just once but twice... so CCW axel, then CW axel, then CCW axel again, and then CW axel again.) And yes, he IS a coach too! (Mel On Ice, you remember who this guy is, since you've been to more ISI events than I have?)

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Stephane Lambiel, in his exhibition program this year ("You're Beautiful" by James Blunt), does a double axel in the reverse direction.
And I believe Carol Heiss, in the 1950s, did 2axel, reverse 2axel, 2 axel, reverse 2axel.

I can do a waltz jump and a salchow (or used to--haven't tried it in a long time) in the reverse direction.
Can partly do a reverse camel. I need lots more practice ....

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There's a senior man at my rink who can do a double salchow in his reverse direction.

I've tried spinning the opposite way, but can't get the hook to work.

__________________
Where are those knives when I need them?
----------------------------------
I need a detachable left foot!

Well, if I pass Bronze MIF with enough time to spare to learn the 8-step, I might do Bronze MIF just for the heck of it. (but that's a big "if" - lol) I'm thinking about Bronze CM, but my loop jump is not great (grrr - couldn't they have picked the salchow?) and I'd have to learn the backward cross rolls - I can go forward, but backward is Toepick City. Plus, I need a new program and also will need to think about the Bronze FS test - so I may run out of time. The good thing (usually) about MIF is that you compete with elements you practice every day, so you don't have to take time out of what you normally do, but at this comp that's not the case.

And I will definitely NOT be doing Bronze Spins.

Well, I actually love spirals. So I asked my coach about that novice MITF today and he will show it to me tomorrow. If I can do the pattern then I will try it in the New Year's competition for Gold MITF. If it's too hard to even step through, then I'll pass. As for the silver spins, I will e mail Washington on that one.