I'm a 48 year old bronze level skater. I'm 5'2" and wear a size 14 in street clothes. I have previously failed pre-juv. MITF several times and retested this test over the weekend. All 3 judges marked the test as "retry" since I have a tendency to skid my back 3 turns. I do not have an issue with the judges' comments on my skating test.

For the record, I tested wearing a black off the rack skating dress with a dance length skirt, over the boot tights and a black fleece warm up jacket. It was very cold in the rink and I have seen many skaters test wearing jackets. I asked me coach if I should remove the jacket, but she told me she thought it would be OK to wear it.

After I skated, one of the Judges approached my coach and suggested that I should consider losing weight, which would make it easier for me to turn. The Judge also indicated to me that she wanted to see me after the test session to offer some suggestions which I might find helpful. Although I told my coach that I found her remarks about my weight to be hurtful and inappropriate, I heeded my coach's advice to listen to this Judge at the end of the test session.

At the end of the session, the Judge approached me, unbuttoned her coat and said "I have a weight problem too and I'm sure you've struggled with your weight just like I have". I was surprised at her words, since I don't consider that I have a weight problem. This Judge described herself as being in her early 50's and my first reaction was not that she had a weight problem--maybe full figured, but certainly not obese.

The Judge then told me that she did not like my jacket, she felt it was too bulky and that if I wore a jacket to test, it should be more fitted so she could see my body line. I view this as constructive criticism, even though in pre-juv. moves the test standards relate to edges, extension and power. Then, she told me that she thought the reason I wore the jacket was because she felt I was uncomfortable in a skating dress because of my weight. She suggested that I might want to invest in a dress with built in undergarments to feel more confident. I answerered that it was very cold in the rink and that is why I wore the jacket.

She then told me that I appeared nervous. I replied that yes, I was nervous during this test, because I tend to get nervous when I test. She told me that "nerves appear to be more evident in people with weight problems". She then offered to give me some of her diet tips, which she stated in the past have helped her remove "tons of lard" (her words). I told her that I was comfortable with my body and my skin and that I was not uncomfortable in my skating dress or with issues regarding my appearance.

While it is true that if I lost 20 pounds I'm sure I would be a better skater, I have a professional desk job, a happy marriage and a happy life. I AM comfortable with who I am and how I look. I skate seriously, but am not a dieter. I believe that this Judge was well intentioned, but if she thinks that I welcome her weight comments as a kindred spirit, she is sadly mistaken. Instead, they were frankly the most hurtful remarks I've heard about myself since I started skating.

There appears to be alot of experience on this board and I was wondering if anyone had a reaction or comments to the Judge's comments. Thank you.

Ugh. I wish a judge would come up to me to provide criticism of my swing dance, but it scares me that a judge would mention weight. I hope the judge doesn't do that with teen girls--they don't have the self-esteem to be offended (and rightfully so), and may take that comment to an extreme.

I understand the comment about body line. Even though there aren't spirals or similar moves on the test, the judges are trained to look at overall body line. For example, if someone did their power pulls all hunched over, the judges could fail them on that move--even if the blade-to-ice stuff is passing. However, only you can decide how self-concious you feel in skating clothes, not a skatemom, not a coach, and certainly not a judge.

I find a judge to comment on the weight of a skater extremely inappropriate.

However, I do believe there is a slight bias in the judging community about weight and having the "skater's body". I'm lucky--I've always had that appearance, but I have seen times in competition when a good skater has been outmarked by a great skater who doesn't have the "typical" skater's body type. In adults, it's hard...we have pregnancys, sedentary jobs, menopause, stress etc. that plays havoc with our weights. And some of us adults 1) started skating to lose weight or 2) left skating and came back, then having a hard time trying to shake off the pounds that appeared when the calorie-burning engine of skating was removed. So there is some sensitivity about the issue.

If your doctor says you're at a healthy weight, ignore it and keep doing what you're doing. Skating for me is the motivation to keep myself healthy so I can avoid the cancer, heart disease, and diabetes that has shown up in my obese family members. I am a strong believer that health, not weight, is the most important value.

Erin
who is at a healthy weight, yet was rather self-concious in my interp costume--a halter top and pants!

I have not seen that level of what I would consider egregious comments on weight, but I am not surprised. And, it may well be that the judge was trying to provide constructive comments, but the choice of words did not convey a constructive dialog.

Anyone who knows me, knows I am short, middle-aged, and chubby... and constantly trying to lose weight. I have had numerous weight-related comments through-out my life similar to what the poster related, although not normally skating related. They were job related, since I used to be in a career that maintains weight and fitness standards for its personnel.

I think that society automatically equates "thin" with "in good physical shape", and "overweight" with "in lousy physical shape" when that may not always be true. I have seen rail-thin people who had less stamina and strength than some overweight or marginally heavy people (who did work out regularly, but due to body frame or metabolism, appeared "heavier" than they were). There's a kid at the rink I skate at who is 8 or 9 years old and has a frame where she naturally looks chubbier than she is, especially in a skating dress (put her in street clothes, and other than her face, she is definitely not chubby). But I've heard other skaters and even coaches at the rink make comments about how she'll never go anywhere in her skating because she's "fat." All this conveniently overlooking the fact that she is out there persevering and acquiring good fitness habits hopefully for life.

To the original poster... the heavy-weight OTB tights and even some of the longer dance skirts DO tend to make one look chunkier than one really is... they actually draw the eye to those areas that are being covered up. If you want to avoid the "dreaded lace tuck," try wearing the footless tights and putting the hems over the laces and eyelets. Even with a bit of bulk of the footless tights around the ankle and top of the skating boots, it doesn't always look as "clunky" as the heavyweight OTB tights.

Some (many) of the polarfleece jackets and pullovers do also. It's also my experience that a jacket that appears bulky CAN disguise some of the rotation and control in the upper body and shoulders during test sessions.

--jsl

That is such a load of bunk. I'm 5'1" and when I skated more seriously, I was 125-130 pounds. Not skinny, but certainly not obese or even close to it. I had a difficult time getting lift on my jumps--and I couldn't do a loop or beyond to save my life. Meanwhile, I saw one woman at a couple of competitions who was quite obviously very overweight. Strictly speaking, one of her upper legs was probably the same distance around as my waist. But this woman had lovely jumps, up though a lutz, proper edges and all, even combinations. Could she have done even better if she had weighed less? Probably. But she still had me whipped. That judge, aside from simply being WRONG, was completely out of line, and if I were you, I'd report the incident.

I'd report it too. And certainly don't bother to test if you know that judge is on the panel. She's already biased against you.

Sounds like she translated her own weight problems on to you, as well.

Am I the only one who doesnt see an issue here

I find it much more effective to set an example - as you did, rather than othere means. You handled the situation like a lady. You perceived that she was well intentioned, and you thanked her for her comments while also letting her know that you were comfortable with your body.

ITA

No matter the judges reasoning, the judge was supposed to watch your skating, not your waistline.

Report her to the USFSA.

__________________
Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau

I give you credit for not telling her off to her face. I wonder if she makes these comments to everyone that's overweight, or if she just saw potential in you and felt she would "do you a favor." Sometimes, people who want to be kind just don't get the job done. At least she didn't send you the "lose weight and dress better" message through a third party - that would have been even more embarrassing. While she made some constructive remarks, I would assume that you would receive more insults if you were to test with her again. You would also be more self-conscious and nervous.

I would mention the incident to the test chair, just to make him or her aware of the situation. If other skaters make similar remarks about the judge's behavior, it will add weight to the situation. Before you sign up for the test session, ask the test chair if she'll be judging. Be clear that you feel very uncomfortable with this judge because of her comments.

As for your skating, nail the test elements in practice and take the test again where she isn't judging. Don't let it affect your determination or ruin your love for skating.

__________________

Losing weight has nothing to do with improving three turns, it's question of good technique, postion and core strength, learning to control nerves also plays into the equation as well, the more you are stiff, the more the turn won't flow and be scraped. This judge seems to know sweet diddly about skating.

I'll also bet that you could well be fitter than her or a lot of skinny people as well. The only thing that closing weight may improve could be jumps.


You found yourself a fruit loop of a jusdge... yes they're out there. There's one here that has made it known that she thinks adults have no business skating so she'll always fail adults on test. Neither I nor any of my adult friends have ever been passed by her yet the minute we get a diiferent judge we pass with great marks.


And yes I would file a complaint, she was out of line.

I agree that the judge stepped over the line a bit by giving you unsolicited advice about your weight. However, I don't think that it should be thought of as wrong for a judge to say something about weight. There is an adult skater that I know of who is technically a very good skater. She has all the jumps and spins that are needed to place consistently high at her competitive level, and she often completes clean programs. However, she never wins, and I have a feeling it is because she is very overweight. There have been times when she has been beaten by people who obviously did not skate as well. This is very frustrating to her, but I know she would never blame it on her weight. It would actually probably be helpful if a judge DID tell her that she would do better if she lost some weight, but most judges (obviously not yours!) wouldn't be so bold. I think that if being overweight truly is holding you back, and you ask the judges what you can do to get better results from your skating, the judges should be allowed to recommend weight loss.

Weight changes can drastically affect your skating ability. Look at young skaters who hit puberty, have a big growth spurt, and all of a sudden they can't do their jumps anymore. It changes your center of gravity. I'm not saying that you can't be a good skater if you are overweight, obviously people have done it, but it seems like that would make an already difficult sport just that much harder.

Weight is a very sensitive issue. Unfortunately, this sport places a high value on "looking the part". Other sports, such as gymnastics and wrestling, are way worse concerning weight issues. I'm not saying it's right, and certainly it can cause a big issue as far as body image and eating disorders go. But that's the way it is, and I think it would be very hard to change this in a sport that is as much about grace and elegance of appearance as it is about athleticism.

I must admit, I would have been furious had it been me - I would probably skate better if I lost 30-40 lbs, but do you think I don't know that?

I often wonder whether judges take one look at me as I skate out to enter a dance class and mark my starting level way down because I'm fat. On the other hand, I do get good marks for interpretive skating..... some of the time! And I am not the fattest skater I know, by any manner of means - some skaters who are much heavier for their build than I am are also far better skaters than me.

Well, most of them, actually, but let's not go there.....

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

I'm not surprised that the judge felt that way, just surprised that she actually told you. Snarky comments about adult skaters and their weight is very common, but most of them just make comments while they're on the panel and never approach the skater.

I'm pretty surethis will sound all wrong, but I'll say it anyway. I'm 5'2" and I can't imagine how much I'd have to weigh to be a size 14. I'm pretty sure I'd be considered overweight at the very least, with an unhealthy BMI, if I were that big. I'm sure she said something out of concern for you, but could/should have worded it in a more considerate way. Since you don't consider your weight a problem, however, the point is moot. They can recommend anything they want. Whether or not you take their advice is up to you.

It's not right to judge someone by their weight, but in the sport of figure skating, it's a reality. That said, I'm sure if you'd gotten the 3's down pat they'd have passed you.

With comments like these being made, it's no wonder skaters are so likely to develop eating disorders. I think it can be okay for a judge to address weight issues if the skater asks for feedback in that area, but it should not be given unsolicited. That judge had absolutely no right to make the comments she did, and they were way out of line. She clearly seems to have some of her own issues regarding weight and dieting, and it's wrong for her to try to push those issues onto you as well. I'm really sorry you had to hear that from her, but it sounds like you handled the situation with grace and dignity. It's refreshing to hear how much confidence you have in yourself and your body.

On a side note, I wanted to mention that I was at Adult Sectionals this past weekend, and saw women of many different body types competing. I saw overweight skaters landing beautiful jumps, underweight skaters struggling with jumps, and everything in between. Weight is not everything in this sport. Sure, having less fat on one's body will make it easier to complete the harder jumps, but having good technique will get you a whole lot further.

That judge was out of line. PERIOD!!!

Skid back 3's is a technique issue, not a weight issue. If your coach can't help you in this skid back 3's area, get another coach who can look at your problem from a different perspective! Maybe there's something that your coach is not seeing that this coach may see.

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

You're darn tootin' that this judge's comments about your weight are inappropriate. How does she know that you didn't just lose 50 pounds recently? Weight has nothing to do with turning ability - I passed my Intermediate MIF at a street-clothes size larger than yours. Almost every non-elite skater could probably stand to lose a few pounds. And that's none of anyone's business but the skater's.

I would write a letter to the test chair detailing your complaint and asking them not to ask this judge back again. Judges depend on clubs calling them for test sessions to get future appointments. I think the USFSA will probably dismiss your complaint because 1. You don't have concrete evidence, like a tape recording, and 2. They will protect judges, especially if she is a Gold or National judge.

Good luck!

While I would never suggest biased comments such as these are acceptable from a judge, especially when they are unsolicited, some of these remarks have gone a little overboard. I don't know whether everyone is aware or not, but there is a serious judging shortage compared to the increased test volume. The USFSA would be derelict in their duties if they dismissed a trained judged based on one example of insensitive remarks made to a skater that didn't have any affect on whether or not the skater passed the test. I can see where discussion could be recommended regarding approaching skaters & the tone of comments, but I find it hard to believe that people are suggesting any judge be dismissed/disciplined based on one incident of disagreement over a boorish opinion, & without knowing her judging record & other such information.

If I was in your situation, I would immediately let the judge know directly if I considered the remarks biased & unprofessional. Speak to the test chair if you feel strongly about it. I disagree with vesperholly in the tone of feedback you should use, because I don't think it's up to an individual skater to decide whether or not a judge comes to your club's test sessions. It would be up to you to give a report to your club representative outlining why you deemed the comments inappropriate. Also judges trial judge for future appointments, so they can go to available test sessions in their area that have room & it's not really supposed to be an invitational situation unless it's a bigger competition or the club in question already has a lot of their own trial judges on the session. There are situations where judges may not be preferred by certain clubs, but the judge's club is expected to support their affiliated judges & invited them to tests, competitions etc. unless there are extenuating circumstances certainly more severe than what's been outlined here. I don't think it has much to do with "protecting the judge" but with what's considered a serious offense, or how many boorish comments it takes. I know club officials who get a lot of totally rude & uncalled for remarks from parents & skaters. Does that mean the club must dismiss them for it or should they simply be instructed they're being rude & given a chance to improve?

Also I would review the coach's role in the scenario, since you sounded hesitant to pursue additional feedback but did so at the urging of your coach. Clarify with the coach your concerns & dissatisfaction about this incident. It sounds like you would have been better off going with your first instincts. It seems to me the coach should have also informed you removing the jacket for the test would have been the best approach.

I completely disagree with this--as long as the SKATING is done well, it shouldn't matter one little whit what size or weight a person is. If this skater would 'do better' if she lost some weight, then the judges are judging on looks, not on skating. And that's simply WRONG. Why should we encourage that kind of attitude and behavior?

145-160, give or take. I know, because I just had a baby, gained 50 pounds, and spent a few months coming down in a size 14. While I certainly wasn't skinny, and wasn't particularly happy at that weight (either psychologically or physically), I still wouldn't have considered myself as having a 'weight problem'. Especially if I had been fit, instead of flabby. I have a friend who is probably at about that size right now, and she's made of solid muscle, and is much healthier than I am, even when I was thinner.

I agree that this judge has personal problems of her own, and projected them onto the OP.

I agree that the judge was out of line, and I think you handled the situation with dignity. I also think it is fair for you ask your test chair if this judge will be on the panel before signing up for a test session. Test sessions are nerve-wracking enough as it is without having to wonder if that judge is focusing on your weight and not on your skating.

The root cause of your scrapey three-turns is not your weight. Although a 'skinny' person may have an easier time getting her center of gravity where it needs to be, she isn't doing a terrific 3 because she's skinny, she's doing it because her mechanics are good. Your coach should help you pinpoint why your 3s are scrapey and what you might be able to do to improve, beyond practice. If your coach is also buying into the idea that your 3s are bad because of your weight, I think it's time for another coach. I'm in my late '40s, 5'4" and also a size 14 and the only time my coach refers to my weight is to tell me something such as to be sure I have my weight over the ball of my foot. When my three turns were scrapey on the exit edge, he worked with me on my posture, where my weight was over my skating foot, what my shoulders were doing, in other words, the mechanics. Never once did he hint that my problems would be solved if I lost weight. I've been in aerobics classes where size 2 twentysomethings can't keep up whereas I can. Fitness and stamina are not necessarily a function of weight. Neither is overall health. You strike me as someone who has a healthy lifestyle and attitude, and don't let one person's opinion sabotage that.

I do suggest that you skip the jacket the next time, because it can obscure your body line. My coach won't let anyone wear a jacket during a test. No matter how fitted, they can make your shoulders look hunched and your overall posture sloppy. Have you tried a dress made of stretch velvet? I find it warmer than lycra. And if the style of my dress permitted, I've also worn a thin leotard underneath; the extra layer helps keep you warm, even if it is thin.

For the record, being a size 14 does not necessarily mean that you are a ball of flab. A person's build has a lot to do with it, which is one of my quibbles with the BMI. When I was at my lowest adult weight, my hip bones jutted out and you could count my ribs if I wore something clingy. I was a size 10 then. A friend of mine is a very petite size 4, and would be obese at a size 10.

I agree. Insensitive remarks are not cause for dismissal, IMO. If they were, we'd be flat out of judges.

If posters think people need to get fired for discussing weight then it needs to start from the ground up, with the coaches.

But in the fashion world, the sizes are screwy. 14 is really not that big--I've accidentally tried some on, thinking they were my size. Now 22W...that's another story.

If a skater is big enough to have diabetes, asthma, heart problems, etc....that is when someone has to say something. But how would a judge know that about a person? I would consider that the responsiblity of a spouse, family, friends, or a coach close to the skater. (BTW, obesity is a serious health problem with my extended family...my immediate family is fine, thanks to my heath food nut mother!)

As to the person who said that it doesn't matter about body size...I quite agree. I had a bout of acid reflux last summer that put me at 95 lbs. I had started my axel and had a solid program before then. At that point, I was struggling to do solid toes and sals--and I had trouble finishing a 1:40 program!

When I started to gain the weight back (I got to eat Ben & Jerry's ), my jumps became more solid, my endurance went up, and every stroke felt stronger!

However, I wonder if skaters who carry a great deal of extra pounds have more injuries from the pounding of jumps. Force does equal mass times acceleration (a constant), so would a heavier skater have more knee and ankle problems because of the amount of force on that skating leg?

The problem with this judge is that we don't know if s/he would have made the same comment to a 16 y.o. kid going through puberty who doesn't have healthy eating habits at home. If the kid is already sensitive about the weight gain, that situation is an eating disorder waiting to happen. Ugh.

Erin
who had a skating friend who complained about being downmarked for being fat while watching her consume five bags of french fries in two days!

I have to admit, I'm AMAZED that a few of the posters on this board think that body weight comments are fair in the sport of skating.

Yes, weight can affect performance. Duh. But Judges should mark, and comment on, performance. Leave the root causes of the performance, good or bad, up to the skater and the coach. Judges are not dietitians, psychologists or fashion consultants and they shouldn't act like they are.

This judge should be reported to the test chair of the club and the USFSA. Not to get dismissed, necessarily, but just so the problem can be dealt with. Judges can learn from mistakes, just like skaters can.

And to the target of this absurd comment....hang in there and keep your chin up! (It will help on your 3s)

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"Gravity is a harsh mistress." -- The Tick

First I want to say I, too, think the judge was out of line.


Well, I think sizes are screwy, too, but not in the way you do. I remember when I was in grad school more than 20 years ago, I was quite fit and weighed about 20 pounds less than what I do now, and I wore a size 8 or 10, although the 8 could be tight. Now, I wear an 8 in many styles! There is no way I could fit in the 20-years-ago size 8. I think since Americans have been gaining weight, the clothing designers have adjusted their sizing so people don't feel too badly about their weight! That's how it seems to me, anyway.

On the injury note, I wanted to add that I lost about 36 pounds since May last year, and the on-again off-again tendonitis that I had in my ankle completely went away. So yes, too much weight could contribute to injuries or general soreness.

Pat

Well, clubs are notorious for ignoring things, valid or not. An individual skater doesn't decide which judges come, the test chair does. I highly doubt a club would stop invited a judge for one complaint unless it was very serious.

If this judge continues to go around to every slightly overweight person and suggest (out of whatever kindness) they diet, there is a bigger problem. And things like this should be documented when they happen in case of future behavior.

I'm sorry, but if I were you (and I do have a little bit of spare tire) I would report her to USFS, since the comments were uncalled for! Just remember to use the proper channels,starting with your test chair.
By the way, what does your coach think of this?