Ummm...... I'm not really sure how to put this delicately, and I think plenty of the dancers on the board will agree with me. The type of "high heels" Gaynor Minden sells refers to the amount of fabric on the heel, not actually having a heel put on the back of the pointe shoe. The pointe shoes dancers wear do NOT have heels, it would ruin the shape of the arch which is what professional dancers strive for.

The things that you pull up on search pages, that have like 7 inch stiletto heels, are made for "adult games" (I don't know how else to put it as there are children on this board). They are NOT used for ballet/professional dance, unless you happen to be in certain nightclubs that cater to that type of entertainment...

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"Without a struggle, there can be no progress" ~ Frederick Douglass

Yeah, they're actually more like fashion, some folks in the gothic scene wear them, though there the boot is more like this:

Bit more masochistic than platform boots were I guess. Christina Aguilera (sp?) and Beyonce wore them apparently.



You couldn't dance ballet on these if your life depended on it. I think jumping is pretty difficult on these as it is, let alone if you want to do it gracefully and not land with a loud thump like a cow. Besides a lot of the jumpyness is coming from the foot, which can't do its job in this kind of shoes.

Wow.....now that's what I call extreme shoes. With these things, would it be true that the toes of the foot are going to be doing a fair bit of supporting of the weight of the whole body? That's the most interesting shoe I've seen yet hahaha. The design appears to have achieved the point of ridiculousness hehehe (the toe pointing one that is hehe)

Thanks

I originally decided not to reply as I didn't want to turn this to a pointe shoe discussion, when ballet is not the focus of the board- and an arguement over pointe shoes wouldn't be productive to the conversation. But you are right- heel height is how high the fabric goes over the heel.

I do wonder if the heel on the "goth" pointe shoes takes any of the weight. Because in ballet pointe shoes without a doubt your entire weight is supported on the toe, via the strength of your whole foot. I cannot imagine trying to stay in that position for an extended amount of time (an evening out?) So while I still imagine the "adult" shoe will do damage to your foot, I wonder if the heel makes it "easier" to stand?

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-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

All I can say is. . .HOLY CRAP.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Also, is there a reason why those ladies have their arms in the air? They're probably holding onto a bar or something, right? hahahaha

But, bringing the pointe shoe thing back to skating, even in ballet slippers, you raise the heel when you turn. I can't imagine being able to do a full turn on a flat foot as there's no point to turn on, too much would be moving. Whereas, in skating with the higher heel, you have a balance point to turn on. With a flat boot, I would think the rocker on the blades would have to be more extreme in order to turn properly, without the heel or toepick dragging and slowing you down.

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"Without a struggle, there can be no progress" ~ Frederick Douglass

I just believe that the rocker on figure skates is adequate for turning and spinning - even without heels. If the heel is removed, it would just be a matter of getting used to the different configuration. I don't think it's necessary to raise the heel when turning......it is a matter of shifting weight to the relevant portion of the blade.

Yes, but "shifting weight to the relevant portion of the blade", i.e. the rocker, WILL raise your heel.

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Gordon Zaft
http://sk8rboi.blogspot.com
School figures are skating's equivalent of the Latin Mass.

Consider this....on an outside edge, if you shift weight to the back of the blade, you will turn. And here, you don't even need to lift the heel at all. And, as for a front 3 turn, heels coming up a bit is a result of shifting weight to the front of the blade......not necessarily you deliberately lifting your heel. A subtle upward motion (beginning from slight knee bend) is enough. Basically, if you have a rocker, you will be able to turn - regardless of whether your boots have heels or not.

Oh.

In retrospect I suppose letting a ballet shoe do the work for you would be cheating.

Prices being what they are, it's hard to experiment a lot with boots, heels, and blades. Too bad.

I've got roller and inline skates that don't have heels. Do most roller dance skates?

I don't know what everyone else thinks about this - but I feel yoga is very beneficial for increasing flexibility. I used to go a lot a while ago but stopped and have now returned to yoga classes to help loosen up some stiff muscles and also to improve my skating. It's very good for loosening up/strengthening leg muscles and strengthening core muscles. It also helps with balance!
There are some movements which are the same as you do in skating - crossing feet over, balancing etc.
In my class we do a stretch which is just like the drag, with your leg out behind and toes pointing out to the side!

I guess taking up ballet would also help as alot of the footwork is similar - but no chance of that for me! Tutu no way!

Yes. All that I ever saw had heels, including my own.

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Well, ice hockey skates do have a far rounder blade than figure skating skates do. Maybe that's why they don't need a heel on their skates.

Mmmmm we have nice ballet lessons from the club. Once a week (but that's plenty, you can practice once more at home if you want) and with a Ukrainean coach, so he's very thorough. Also he has been teaching figure skaters for years and he knows what figure skaters need so he only keeps us busy with things that make sense to teach to a figure skater, and only to a degree that a figure skater would need it.

Big plus is that we have ballet in whatever we skate in, so no tutu's!

Dunno about the other people doing ballet, but I noticed a difference in my posture even off-ice on photos.

Just thought I'd thow this in ....

Shoes and boots for long distance walking and hiking are relatively firm to rigid, and have heels.

... whereas, shoes for day meets on orienteering and cross country are flexible and do not have heels.

If you stand sideways on a step in barefeet on one foot and let the other leg hang, most people's feet will take up a natural arch, the shape of which corresponds to a heeled shoe.

I thought that the heel for hiking boots is for cushioning and also to create a thick enough barrier for protection against potentially sharp things etc on the ground, plus perhaps insulation too against hot ground.

This doesn't explain the shape of the boot. Why isn't the sole higher?

Very general statements are never universally true.

(Like that one.)

(I remember so well an English teacher who commanded us in all seriousness to "Never use absolutes!")

A few hiking boots have no or even negative heels. For that matter, many hikers prefer sport hiking shoes that are slightly beefed up tennis shoes, or sandles - try your nearest outdoor store.

How much has wearing shoes shaped according to current theory affected the shapes that feet, muscles and ligaments take?

Anyway, shouldn't you look at the way the foot walks barefoot, not the way it hangs in the air? I feel a lot more comfortable walking around the house barefoot than in shoes.

People who advocate training runners and walkers barefoot claim most foot problems are the long term result of those distortions. For example, the cushioning of the heel is centered, which may imply your heel strike is "meant" to be too, but wearing heeled shoes somehow more or less forces you to strike on the outside edge. (Somewhere around midstride you probably rock over onto the inside edge, then start to rock back out just before you lift off the toes.) Likewise for people with arch support and weak ankle issues, which I guess they try to explain as the result of using an elevated heel, or the result of letting a rigid support substitute for muscle/ligament use. They argue that heels reduce the time of impact between heel and midfoot strike, increasing shock damage. And that fungal and viral infections are the result of insufficient ventallation. (They ignore the cuts, bites, infections and parasites you get from walking outside barefoot.)

Some of the very best long distance runners walked and ran barefoot most of their lifes, and would compete that way if it was still allowed. Sprinters usually don't use their heels at all.

I just read books and web pages. I don't know enough to say who is right, or whether there is one right answer for everyone.

As you probably know, depending on whose books you read, there are 3 - 5 arches in the foot, not just one.

I've always been much more comfortable walking on heels than I was without. In fact I had one pair of running shoes with barely no heels and I couldn't even walk fast in them, let alone run! And now that my ankle has cured at the front to the point I can wear heels again (because of the added stretch of those ligaments), I'm back on heels and comfortable walking for the first time in months.

I'm not sure how come, but I'm more comfortable on heels.

But I'll say one thing: the heels need to be *centered*, cheap shoes are usually not centered, even many of the expensive ones aren't.

I stand corrected.

I will never say "the sky is blue" again.

Certainly not in this thread, anyway.

I think that's because in hiking, the foot is usually planted down heel first? Like most force on the heel each time the foot comes down onto the ground. Long distance jogging is like this too I think......so, many jogger-type shoes have a fair bit of cushioning under the rear of the boot.

The body is adaptive.

It seems unlikely that people who have grown up wearing shoes could quickly change to bare feet or to shoes which mimick a benign bare foot environment without major league problems.

My feet aren't tough enough to go barefoot most places outside, and I stopped going barefoot in the yard after we found a "cow killer" wasp there. But I like low heels, and lightweight shoes. My skates are the exception, and I may change that.

You can find lots of web pages about running barefoot, but obviously far outside the "current standard of care" [medical science's substitute for the eternal truth] podiatrists are trained to.

For the curious, here is one of those many links:

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu9Ff6D...%2520Ropdf.pdf

Actually, hockey skates have at least a 9' rocker, meaning they are flatter, not rounder than figure skate blades. But because they don't have a toepick, skaters in hockey skates can't afford to get their weight too far onto the front of the blade or they could roll over the front of the blade and fall forward. I'm guessing that might be one reason why they don't have a heel.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Outch. OK, I tend to be pedantic, even about things I know nothing about. Sorry!

I'm not sure how I let myself drift into the barefoot running thing. I don't really want to balance my bare foot on a knife edge while skating. I'm just questioning all the assumptions that led to my getting very heavy uncomfortable boots.