My events at AN are all late at night so I guess I can stay out late and have fun!!!

Oh I already did that at sectionals. So tired... such fun.

Pairs at mids was very exciting and both teams were so different, AN's is going to be fabulous for the pairs events.

All the skaters at Mids did a great job, I spent 12+ hours watching almost everything yesterday it was fun, I actually got to cheer everyone!!

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Hello everyone

After reviewing the tentative schedule, my friends, the Adult Gold Pair team of Les Ascher & Ellen Zurfluh, former Silver Medalists in Adult Pairs at Adult Nationals at Lake Placid, have withdrawn from the competition.

Their reasons for withdrawl are the safety concerns brought about by having such a high-level event scheduled relatively early in the day. This would require a 20-minute session to be held very early in the day prior to the event. The early hour, when bodies are often stiff and less flexible, coupled with the excitement of performing, does appear to be making the event a bit riskier for the participants in terms of potential errors. In pair skating, small errors could lead to serious injury, as we all understand and have witnessed.

While it is disappointing news, their viewpoint is shared by their coaches and medical professionals who also skate and volunteer their time to USFS. One can only support their decision, which is based on their genuine safety concerns. These concerns were raised in 2007 and appear to have arisen again this year despite a slight shift in the scheduled time for the event.

Do you (everyone) have an opinion on this issue of safety concerns and how they are considered when arranging competitions?

Thanks!

You could compete as an adult at Masters level. You really don't want to limit yourself now so you can qualify for an adult category!

j

Never mind....

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Let's just make it clear that the early hour is hard on everyone. Old, young, pairs, dance or singles. It's not just pairs that hate early mornings.

We had complaints from one team last year that the Championship Pairs event was held too late in the day, when bodies are too tired to lift other bodies**. Then we had complaints (from Les and Ellen) that the Gold Pairs were too early, and bodies were too stiff. We had complaints that the older Gold Ladies events were too late Thursday night.

The overlying issue is that ANs can only fit into four days. The skaters wanted IJS, so now the days have to run longer (don't forget that means for judges and officials too, not just skaters). It's impossible, as a result, to make everyone happy. Not everyone will be able to skate at noon!

The report I wrote after Chicago ANs addressed the issue and stated that if at all possible, the referee should schedule Pairs between 10:00 am and 5:00 pm, and that the older age groups of any level should be earlier, and have the Is and IIs skate later. But Lake Placid runs on its own rules and does not follow the same organizational structure as other ANs.

Frankly, after having organized an ANs, trying to fit everything in, and working with a referee on all the issues that adults have with our older bodies, all I can say is that I'm sure the referee did the best they could within the constraints. As the Rolling Stones say, you can't always get what you want. Les and Ellen made a decision that was comfortable for them, and it's a huge shame, but the referee can't possibly rearrange everything for one team.

**the Championship Pairs event last year had to be held late in the day because Chris Williams had to compete in THREE events that day. So they gave him as much room between events as possible. So keep in mind that the schedule has to be juggled around those who compete in other disciplines.

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Well, said, Manley!!!

I would like to add that, some people should just be happy that they get to compete at all! There are many of us, I'm sure, who cannot compete this year, due to financial, time, or job/ family constraints. I would be grateful if I got to compete at AN, at any time of day!!!


OK, lecture over! (I am a teacher, after all!)

Give Les & Ellen my love - haven't seen them for too long! Sorry to hear they've withdrawn, but they know their own bodies best.

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The schedule for my one event is bad for me, but then that's the chance I took when I entered. I thought that perhaps, with a four-day event the odds of my low-level event ending up on Saturday afternoon would be slim, but that's eactly where I ended up.

Now I have to wait and see what the schedule is for the event I have to do the accounting for on Sunday before I decide wshether to withdraw from AN.

Am I happy about it? No, but that's the chance I took when I entered. I certainly don't expect the referee to arrange the dschedule around my needs and preferences.

The way it looks now, even if I do make it to Lake Placid, it will be a flying trip - in on Friday night, skate Saturday and then out again right after. Not exactly the soial outing I'd planned but .....

Gotta agree with this. I was devastated when the first schedule came out, because it appeared that Bronze Ladies I had a qual. I really felt that I might have to scratch. Turns out I didn't....awesome. Never did I consider asking anyone to rearrange the schedule for me and me alone.

Think of the wonderful nap you'll have after Silver Pairs. I'm looking forward to seeing you & Sara, and watching you skate. I hear you have a wonderful coach. Of course, you could follow the tried-and-true Chuck Miller Lake Placid training regimen: skate, stay up & drink beer, have french fries with gravy at the cafe across the street (I know, ewwww!!!) and then skate again in the morning...

Just to make it clear, we don't know if Les/Ellen actually asked for the schedule to be rearranged at Lake Placid. They may have simply withdrawn and asked the referee to consider it for future competitions. When I said that the referee can't rearrange for one team, I meant more when they were drawing up the original schedule they do the best they can overall.

I should also mention, however, that I know that Les/Ellen's coach Oleg Vasiliev has taught Kim Sailer/Dave Garber at very early sessions and has never said anything to them about it being risky. Kim/Dave come to Chicago on occasion, stay with me, and we go together to whatever rink Oleg can get them on to teach pairs. Sometimes it's been 7:00 or 8:00 am. And Kim said it's never been an issue. But Dave is a much stronger (and younger) guy, so perhaps Oleg didn't think it was an issue for them.

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I am really sorry Les and Helen are withdrawing again, because I always enjoy seeing them skate and hanging out with them. But I have to ask, and I am serious about this ... can't they just kinda time-shift themselves by going to sleep earlier and waking up earlier, so that by the time they have to skate their bodies are warmed up? It would be kinda like traveling to Europe or something and having your whole body clock be off, yet you have to skate when you have to skate. I know that sounds simple, but I don't see why it can't be done. If your event is at 8 or 9 or whatever, get up at 3 or 4 and get movin' on the ground before you even hit the ice. Do it for several days before your event so that your body is used to it.

Just thinking out loud.....

My regimen last year before the Bronze II ladies final round was to go out with cousins the night before and eat White Castle burgers, onion rings, and fries at 12 midnight! I didn't drink that night. Because of the late bedtime, though, I thought for sure I'd be really tired the next morning for my 20-minute warmup, but I was fine. Mmm, White Castle!!

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It's very sad the Les/Ellen withdrew but they had a good reason and it was their choice. I can only imagine how difficult it is to manage this event, we are allowed to enter 4 events and even if you "per se" only enter one what about the others in your group? The ref has to take into accounts the needs of everyone, and as Manleywoman pointed out with IJS being run on just one rink and the event being limited to 4 days there is only so much they can do.

I skate both my interp events between 9:30 pm -10:15 pm not a great time but I am relatively young, I'll just sleep in and nap as needed. I get to watch everyone skate so thats a plus. I did notice that Masters Novice III and then a day later Masters Novice II/III both ladies were scheduled so that could be interesting but keeping track of all of this has to be so difficult.

I would just like to thank them for all their hard work. I really like having all the champ events at the end and I don't envy the judges and their very long day.

Thanks,

Leslie

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ITA with your excellent post.

My event is at 4pm and I'm thrilled - I'm used to opening the competition at 7am. The only thing I'm a little sad about is that Silver is on the 1932 rink, not the 1980 rink, but you can't win 'em all.

Les and Ellen: I'm sorry to hear that you two won't be competing at AN and I won't get to meet you guys again. (I met you a LOOOONG time ago in San Francisco. We did dim sum after skating at the Embarcadero rink at the now defunct Harbor Village. I was the newbie in the adult skating scene back then.)

I understand that you are making this difficult decision for the safety concerns of all involved. I really don't have much of a say about this b/c 1) I've never skated pairs before and 2) I'm a 40 year old and I'm still a young'um compared to Les and Ellen. However, I could imagine what would happen if one's muscles spasms or someone's back stiffens bad enough that it would seriously impact an overall head lift. I mean, when my hip stiffens on a very cold early morning skate, I get into all sorts of trouble with my skating techniques to have to compensate for it. I don't think Les wants to compromise Ellen's safety here and from what I've read here, I didn't see them asking the referee to change the schedule for the sake of letting them compete. They made the wise decision to bow out and seriously, we really should snark them for their own risk management in terms of their skating. (Think of it as deciding on whether to skate with a slightly sprained ankle or injured back?) We don't have the right to judge the risk management for their team. Only they do!

P.S. Schedule has been revised as of 3/12/2008...

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Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
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Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I know. I wasn't trying to criticize anyone specifically, sorry if it sounded that way. I just meant in general.

Unfortunately, the Brown Bear (the cafe across the street) closed before Ironman Lake Placid Camp last June - the building was condemned - so you'll have to find a new place to have fries with gavy (::SHUDDER:.

well said

I guess you have to do what you feel. I personally think it's a silly reason but everyone knows their body the best. I know I don't skate as well early morning but if I had to compete I know I would train early in the morning the week before to get my body used to it.

Good luck to all at AN!

Since we're talking about food here... what's good to eat at Lake Placid? The other question to ask is whether there is a RiteAid/CVS/Walgreens type of store within walking distance of the rink or Main St.?

TIA!

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11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

In 2004, my group of friends/travel companions and I went to the Brown Bear 7 times (yep, SEVEN) for various meals. It's now closed and the cook has moved on to a more upscale type restaurant down the street (read: more expensive). There's the LP Brew Pub. Supposedly really good.

There are many places to eat up and down Main Street. There is a really good cafe/bistro by the Mirror Lake Inn. It is walking distance from Main Street but just enough off that it is on the quiter side. Don't remember the name of it, but the prices were reasonable. We went there for lunch.

As for the drug store. I know there is a Rite Aid, but it is not really walking distance as far as I can remember. But there is a free bus system that runs through Lake Placid and I'm sure that there must be a stop close to it.

Hi everyone

Thanks for all the discussion. I have participated so many times over the years as a singles and pair skater I have experienced many scheduling issues first-hand - conflicts, early hours, late hours, etc. With the exception of conflicts, we simply try to train and do our best, which in pair skating also means safety. I do believe that one advantage to having a tentative schedule is knowing what you must be prepared to do.

For example, one option for skaters who feel it is not safe for particular elements at a certain time of day could be to prepare a program altered for safety concerns. True, it may be disappointing to need to do so, but if safety is the number one priority with participation being the second priority, this could solve an issue. But it is really a decision for the team involved and their coaches. This is one way to address safety concerns I was hoping this thread would discuss.

Personally, I feel safety in competition is a matter of training for the event. Having a tentative schedule helps know what you need to be ready for, and if you can't put in all your risky elements because it is early, then better safe than sorry. But my two-cents is really worth $0.00 because I do not train overhead lifts and double twists and jumps.

However, I fully support any personal decision a team makes in this type of matter, and it is good to hear that the safety concerns are voiced and taken into consideration by organizers who may not be personally familiar with pair skating.

Cheers!

Larry

Since we're talking about food here... what's good to eat at Lake Placid? The other question to ask is whether there is a RiteAid/CVS/Walgreens type of store within walking distance of the rink or Main St.?

I hope all of you competitors arrive in Lake Placid during the daylight hours. Not only is the Northway (I-87) one of the most beautiful Interstates in the nation, RT. 73 into Lake Placid is so awesomely beautiful, a great setting for this Olympic town. Views not to be missed! I may be a bit biased, because I did live in the southern Adirondacks for much of my life. And now after 20 years I've moved back to NY, living in northern NY (about an hour and a half from Lake Placid). Lake Placid is always magical to me, my Disneyland!

As you enter the village you'll pass Mt. Vanhovenburg (luge and bobsled), the ski jumps!, John Brown's body lies a molding quite near, and acroos the road is the spot where the opening ceremonies for the 1980 OOOOOs were held. And then, the rink!

Inside the rink is a good coffee shop. Don't know if it will be open but the SCofLP runs a used clothing/skate shop downstairs near the USA rink, down the hall from the ladies locker room. Use the Athlete's Entrance only door, across from the school, but don't stub your toe on it the way I did - I think I was so excited to be entering a door that I never thought I"d be eliglbe to enter! I've never exactly considered myself the athletic type! But there's just something about skating..... Too bad they have closed the historic Lussi rink. The Lussi tapes were filmed here, at least I know the spin tape (with a very young Paul Wylie) was. They'll soon be building a new convention center and adding another rink. Anyway, don't miss the old pictures of skating history in the hallway. I love those outdoor shops on Mirror Lake the best.

I know you didn't ask but in case someone doesn't have reservations I enjoyed the Golden Arrow Hotel on Mirrow Lake so much last year when I stayed for the Adult Skating Camp that I've booked it again next year. Many skaters like Art Devlins motel. Both are very close to the rink.

I can't picture a drug store right in the village either, but I'm sure there is one a couple miles outside the villlage on the way to Saranac Lake. Local grocery chain, Price Chopper, is in that direction. There's a good restaurant in that shopping area, can't remember the name though. Aside: Saranac Ales taste great, although I think they're bottled down in Utica.

Other restaurants I can recommend are the Brown Dog Deli and Wine Bar, Jimmy's 21, an institution in LP, both on Mirror Lake, up Main St. away from the rink. Across the street from the rink is Nicola's, good Italian, and the Lake Placid Pub and Brewry around the bend toward the lake.

In the village there are sadly, some outlets, but also many gift shops, cafes, boutiques, and even a swinging hot spot, the lounge at the Hilton. A great walk is the 3 miles around Mirror Lake. Kate Smith (God Bless America) used to live on this road.

Best of luck to you all. I tried to attend, between late Sept and Jan. 12 I passed five ice dances. On Jan 12 I skated a great Fiesta Tango, but lost my mind on the second pattern of the Swing and got a retry. But I was so proud of myself for trying, and both Dance and Freestle coaches thought I should have passed the Swing since I was testing as an Adult, I just needed one more judge, but so be it. 28 days later I passed Bronze MITF, so I have accomplished quite a bit in my first year of skating in my new club. I'll try the Swing again in May. Skating life is good!

I'll be driving down to watch you all on Thursday and Saturday - and hopefully I"ll be attending AN soemtime in the future.

Enjoy!
Pat

There's a Rite Aid nearby -- it's "around the bend" from the Hilton and Mirror Lake Inn. You would need a car, but it's not that far. A little farther from that, IIRC, is the grocery store whose name escapes me at the moment.

I am arriving late at night and will miss the spectacular views on the drive up, but I will get to see them on the way back. I am sad that the Brown Bear cafe is closed; I loved that place! They had great tomato basil soup!

ETA: Tentative schedule updated again today (3/17). Interp warmups added at 15 minutes apiece.