I was just wondering if anyone knew of any strengthening exercises I can do to help with a spiral. I have the flexibility to get my leg up, I just can't hold it up. And I'm not even sure really what muscle areas are used to do the spiral.So if anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

You need strength in your mid-back and lower back muscles and your glutes, plus some hamstring strength, some strength in the hip rotator muscles (of the free leg) and overall core strength.

(Also, you need some flexibility in your psoas muscle and abs.)

I practice on dry land going down into the spiral position, coming up, going down. I think some people practice with a skate on their free leg to simulate the weight of the skate. When I do it, I concentrate on sending energy out the free leg so I'm not crunching everything up in my lower back (think like you're trying to get your free foot farther from your body and making your free leg as looooong as possible--and that also helps keep the free leg straight as opposed to bent). Some people stick a sturdy chair in their living room and watch TV as they practice... (helps with keeping the head up).


When I'm done practicing, I stretch my back muscles and hip rotators, or I get cramps there.

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Yes, I think having that heavy skate at the end of your leg and holding it up as long as you can is the best way to build those upper glute and lower back muscles. In order to get strong spirals I just did 5-10 spirals on each leg every time I skated and held each one as long as possible--pulling my leg up with my glutes. Another benefit is that you develop your balance and edge control at the same time. But if your balance is a little iffy, you can also stand by the boards and hold on while holding the spiral position.

This video by Ann-Margreth Frei has some really good flexibility and spiral strengthening exercises at the end - about 15 minutes worth.

One exercise that my coach gave me that can be done on-ice or off-ice is to start in a spiral position, sink down into a lunge on the same leg, then rise back up into a spiral position, holding each position for at least a count of four. Repeat 8-16 times, or more as your strength improves.

I've also seen (on ice) forward spiral on a flat to forward shoot the duck on a flat and back up to forward spiral on a flat. It's quite a thigh-burner.

Also, once during a stroking class my coach had a few of us, paired off, have a "spiral competition" in which the goal was to see who could hold a spiral the longest. (Once we reached the end of the rink, we had to start curving it around to not run out of ice. It was really comical as we gradually slowed down and got into a small circle, but my legs got a good workout from that. And then we all dissolved into a fit of giggles....)

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My coach has had some of his kids do that one. Plus most of us get to do a similar drill where we head down the ice on a flat with a good bent knee and strong extension. Rise on the skating leg and bring the free leg through and re-bend and raise the free leg in front so that ideally it's parallel to the ice. Rise again and bring the free leg back to the back to a nice extension. Repeat until you reach the end of the rink. This is all done off of a single push, BTW. Skate around the end of the rink and go down the other side on the other foot.

Friday afternoon I had to do 3 laps. 1 lap rise-rebend without bringing the free leg through with arms in "normal" tabletop position. 1 lap rise-rebend with arms in ballet 5th position. Then 1 lap of the rise-rebend and bring the free leg through and back. Plus other stroking exercises. By the end of my lesson my quads knew they had worked.

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My group coach makes me do these when the other adults are working on their shoot the ducks since that's the only move I've ever been able to do from day one - adding the pre and post spiral is a killer but fun

Our elite skaters do that as part of their off-season on-ice training. And I usually do a spiral-into-teapot (shoot-the-duck) combination in my interpretive programmes - if with Husband (we did this in our last free dance), he does the teapot first, going backwards, while I spiral, then we change positions. But we're not getting that low, and I'm pulling that for next year's dance - it's got old! I will still put it in if I do an Interp next year, though, and I expect he'll put it, or something similar, in his free programme.

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If I didn't know you live elsewhere I'd swear we have the same coach! Let me guess--either he's Russian, or was trained by Russians? I always have to end my lessons w/ 2 laps of stroking w/ double knee bend (down, up, down, free leg stays extended throughout), often w/ hands overhead or behind my back. Just to make sure I'm really, really dead before he goes on to the next victim!

He's not Russian, but he is European...

And I had told him about all the exercises you had to do working with V. Federov, and he's decided the same principle might work for me (especially since the Tango can always use more flow).

Of course, he also makes us do the "evil eights" (me and the kids... most of his other adults don't do them)... He hasn't had me do them for awhile, so I am sure that they will rotate back into my drill repetoire before long.

I can tell the improvements though.. I was doing Tango cross-back chasses down the rink yesterday, and started with about the same amount of speed as normal, and I was able to maintain my flow much better than I used to, so I'm starting to get a more efficient push.

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Ah, so the word is spreading and I have been turned into an unwitting pawn to solicit new recruits! His eville plan is working!

Yes, it didn't take long for me to start seeing the benefit of all the hard work. Try your Tango cross-back chasses w/ arms behind back--you'll very quickly see if they're truly controlled or not!

Well I'm not complaining about the drills too much! I can see the pay-off. I think tomorrow after my figures lesson with coach #2, if coach #1 isn't there yet (traffic woes) I will try the cross-back chasses with hands behind back! Or have him make me do them during lesson! Am I a glutton for torture or what! LOL

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Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
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Definitely! Although having said that, I finally managed to get a bit of an edge on my Level 3 Dance Moves when the coach made me get my hands down! "Pulls your centre of gravity down," he said, "So you can get on an edge!"

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Mrs Redboots
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Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Table-top height .... doing the "crucifix imitation" gets the center of body off kilter AND often makes one stiff (or a good imitation thereof).

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
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Well, I even got good enough edges to please him at one stage this morning - promptly lost the wretched things again after my lesson, though. Still, if this keeps up, I can see testing them in the New Year, which is what I want to do, anyway....

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Mrs Redboots
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Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

As you can see from my screen name, I'm good at spirals.
First and foremost, you must pinch that butt cheek hard to hold the position. You must also stretch your neck and pinch your shoulder blades together. There is a lot of natural flexibility involved, but always balance over the skating foot first and then stretch out the position.

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I'm beginning to LOVE these sorts of exercises. jenylon60 said it best with "By the end of my lesson my quads knew they had worked."

Most of the time when I skate, I come home feeling a bit tired but not like I've really worked out. Then every now and again, I find something good to work on, and come home KNOWING I worked up some strength in particular muscles.

I'm going to have to work on the spiral/shoot-the-duck thing, for some reason it's really hard for me to stand up from forward shoot-the-ducks, but I can stand up from backwards ones while holding my toe with my hand and keeping the leg parellel to the ice. It's hard, but I can manage. This ability disappears when going forward. Maybe the lunge version will work out better.

I watched an edge class recently, and saw an exercise where the students would do alternating outside edges, and then every 3rd step, hold that edge for a full circle before crossing the foot and stepping back onto the other outside edge - the result being that each circle was the opposite direction as the previous. The forward ones weren't too terrible, but the backward ones were much, much harder. On them, the free leg is raised in front and a bit out to the side. I figured out that I don't do that stretch enough when the muscles on the outside of my hips were sore for the remainder of the day.

And it's after such days of good exercise that I notice the most progress. One time I really worked out my abs doing stupid 2-foot jumps in alternating directions changing from forward to backwards edges, and shortly thereafter, I found brackets to be much much better. I guess sometimes we have to forget about the element that's causing trouble for a while and just have fun with strength exercises in order to progress.

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That spiral-shoot the duck-spiral sounds great. I have to try that. I also do a lunge into a camel. This is a good one. You could do lunge into spiral.

I want to learn that cool side spiral the female elites are doing. There is no catch foot, just turning the body to the side and lifting the free leg very high. I work this by doing catch foot lifts off ice. I do not have the strength yet to lift my free leg to the side unassisted. However, I have a nice high champagne glass spiral.

Kay

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Well, I hope you look neater than my husband does when he tries this..... looks most odd when he does it!

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Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Yup! I got this "spiral death sentence" on Wed. lesson!!! 15 on each leg too!!! (Of course, I think she's NUTS!!! But she really wants me to start training that part of the body. It was REALLY REALLY shaky when I tried to do a good spiral... that's what saved me from having her come up behind me and ADJUST ME RIGHT WHILE I WAS DOING THE SPIRALS!!! Of course, ALL her longtime students have beautiful spirals...

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Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I've been working on the things you guys all suggested, although I've been using ankle weights instead of a skate. (I actually bought them to do my PT home exercises with, but they can multitask). I'll find out when I go skating tomorrow if it actually helped anything. But I find that I can usually lift my leg higher off the ice than I can on the ice. And inside edge spirals are higher than outside. I guess it might just be a comfort thing.

That's exciting! Let us know if all those exercises helped!
If it's a fear thing, just remember to focus on your toes.

Free foot: Point the toes

Skating foot: LIFT UP THE TOES

Lifting up the toes of your skating foot will make it impossible to catch your toepick and fall on your nose. It also helps you get a better stretch because your weight is on your heel. Try it and you'll see what I mean.

Ah yes, I always have a coach in my head telling me to lift my toes. Although then I usually wind up lifting them at the wrong time, or lifting my entire foot instead. I need to work on just lifting my toes.