Yo, all.

It's been a hard couple of months, and I haven't gotten much done. Between service and school, I haven't had much time to skate. But I recently said goodbye to the US Navy and am on my own time. In about three weeks I will start with a coach whose son is the current British National Champion. I will have plenty of time, and a fulltime job to pay for lessons (and student loans >_>).

I was able to skate 12 hours this past week because of the holidays. I figured out how to do a shakey waltz jump on my own that I can duplicate many times in a row. That's quite an accomplishment, I think, for a skater without one single figure skating lesson. But even better, through a couple of tips from other skaters, I was able to land an axle (although I can't even remember the order of steps, let alone repeat it!). Unfortunately, it attracted the attention of the skate guard who came over and told me I couldn't do jumps during public skate. Suffice to say, I was... displeased.

It was then that I figured it was time to get serious. I'm going to need ice time not dictated by the likes of bored high schoolers, small children, and adults in rental skates. And so I am. Just figured y'all would appreciate the progress.

An axel...without ever having a single lesson??? Are you sure that's what it was?

Well yes you will certainly need private ice time if you are as good as that. Do let us know how your lesson goes and what your coach thinks of your axel.


Good Luck
Grace

Er - are you sure? As far as I know, John's parents still live in this country (I know that he & his girlfriend are still agonising which set of parents to spend Christmas Day with!).

Whatever, I hope you enjoy your skating!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Certain? No. I suppose I could have been lied to by the other skaters. But the individual who gave me the most tips that allowed me to do it was 31, so I doubt she was interested in psyching me out by lying about my skill. Honestly, though, I don't know. As I said, I only know it was a) a jump and b) serious enough to attract the skate guard's attention.

You'll have to forgive me for my lack of clarity. I don't know what the brackets are for the British National Championionships. I'm refering to Luke Chilcott. I'm starting lessons with his father, Tim Chilcott. Definitely British, but here in the states.

That really bites not being able to do stuff (especially if hockey boys are whizzing around doing "their" hockey moves ).....

Hope everything works out for you!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Luke is the 2004 Primary Men's champion, which is the British equivilent to our Novice, I think.

Righto. He's injured this year, even though he is now at the Junior level. If he wasn't, I wouldn't have a coach, as they would both be in the UK.

Well, what did you do? Did you rotate more than once around in the air? Cross your leg over the other? Go from a forward position? If you didn't, it's not an axel (and you'd REMEMBER what you had to do if it was an axel), and I really honestly doubt that anyone could do an axel in that short period a time. I do not think you are lying at ALL, I just think you have a lot of misconceptions about how easy this sport is (or isn't). An axel takes the average person a year to learn. I was an exception, and it still took me 2 months, and that was after having properly learned to skate with coaches. Most people who land axels right away are gymnasts or roller skaters. I think you should take what people tell you on public sessions with a huge grain of salt- some people are knowledgeable, but most are not qualified to teach you anything, if they were, they'd be on the side of the boards, coaching people for money.

Meanwhile, when you say National Champ, of any country, then it's assumed that it's the Senior level. If you're talking about a Novice National champ, you have to say the level in front of it. There's a pretty huge difference between winning Novice Nats. and Senior Nats. For one, Senior Nats. winners are Olympic-bound, not Novices.

PS: Also, since an axel is basically a waltz jump with a loop tacked on in the air, you wouldn't have just "figured out" a "shaky" waltz jump, and then done an axel on the same session. Just talking logistics, here.

You don't have to cross your leg for an axel. Skaters during the Peggy Fleming era didn't cross their legs for the 2axel either.

This is off the original topic, but I agree. When I skated as a child we used to call it "wrapping" when someone did an axel (or any jumb really) like that.

Anyway, to Kevin--Congratulations for getting on the ice! Keep us updated, and have a blast!

__________________
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Natalie

http://www.ILoveTaB.com

I did not rotate more than once, that I can assure you. I probably didn't have enough air for that. I did cross one leg over the other, and I did go from a forward position. And I certainly have misconceptions about the sport. I've only been skating regularly since June, and until now, without a coach. I think it goes without saying that there's a lot I don't know and what I do know is going to be confused, rough, and improper. I'm not going to try to say otherwise, so you don't have to worry about me being a snotty newbie. But I do take skating very seriously, and I do know I've made quite a bit of progress for being entirely on my own.

While I'm sure that's true, I'm only repeating how he was introduced to me, which was as "2004 British National Champion." I don't know enough about levels to have divined what level he was at. His father told me but only in a phone call early this morning, AFTER this post had already been made. I already asked forgiveness for my clarity.

While I certainly believe you, I'd sure like to know what I did. It was certainly no waltz jump. It was higher, took longer, and had more rotation.

If it didn't rotate more than once and rotated more than a waltz jump, then it sounds like it had to be about 3/4 around at most.

There's really no rush to learn an axel. Most people learn toe loop, salchow, loop, flip and lutz first, after they master the waltz jump.

Hi Kevin,

I love the website www.skatejournal.com -- it is great to read a journal and watch the journey of this skater (I don't know if she is a member of this board or not--if she is -->Thanks for a great site!)

She has a great section that describes all the basic moves really clearly. Here is a link to the section that describes the various jumps:

http://www.skatejournal.com/jump.html

Do any of them seem familiar? In any case, I like to "study" various moves and jumps long before I actually get there

__________________
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Natalie

http://www.ILoveTaB.com

Yes she is, I think that she's KaySkate (or something similar) now

Kevin, it's good that you're taking it seriously now and good that you're getting lessons. As others have said, though, don't be in a hurry to learn too much, too soon. It really is better to get the basics off before moving onto the harder stuff. I would recommend that you also do some dance lessons as free teachers don't tend to concentrate so much on the basics and you can see some truly horrific basic skating on people who are doing double jumps! I did both and it helped me enormously, it's also better for when you come to do your step sequences etc. Getting good basics makes is SO much easier when the time comes to do the more advanced stuff.

Good luck.

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The best whisper is a click

Hi again Kevin

Very good advice.

No Kevin you are not a "snotty newbie" when you first start you can only go by what people tell you. You certainly have made good progress and very wise of you to get a coach, bad self taught habits, once ingrained are very hard to get rid of, I think we can all vouch for that.

I think you are certainly ready for the next stage in taking lessons. It will be interesting to hear how you progress, maybe in the future we will hear of your tests and competitons, lets face it, if you have been in the Navy there can't be a lot left to be afraid of, or do spiders still worry you.

Oh and good luck with the new job.

Cheers
Grace

Well, then you didn't do an axel, that I can assure you.

Kevin, I know this is hard advice to hear, and I don't mean it to be discouraging. But here it is: slow down. In my experience, you're better off starting with the basics of stroking and turning, and NOT trying to learn jumps from somebody on a session. If you're serious about skating, as you appear to be, start at the beginning and don't try to rush into skills. It usually results in bad habits that can take years to get rid of.

That being said, skating is a totally cool sport, and you're going to love it! I hope you have a lot of success with your coach.

Ah yes, sorry for the misunderstanding about the champions.... mind you, we do have a lot of champions here in Britain (and 2 new ones since the start of the week!).... I can go to dance club at Tashakat's old rink and be chatting to at least three Adult champions. Come to that, I'm a British Silver medallist myself - in Adult Elementary Dance!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Too many people to actually respond individually to, but I'll tell you about my progress today.

I joined an adult basic class today, and the coach said exactly the same thing as a lot of you have. I have a lot of speed and a fair amount of control, but my technique is horrid. She constantly said "Kevin, you've got it, I know you've got it, but slow down! You're not doing yourself any favor by rushing, because when you do you forget to bend your knees, or keep your back straight, or your arms out. You're making everything harder than it needs to be."

Fine. I'll slow down. I'm sure my coach will say the same thing at our next lesson.... Your tips are still appreciated! Anyhow, to be clear on my goal, it is to compete gold level at Adult Nats within the next five years. I think that's doable.

And I am terribly frightened of spiders. And zombies. Especially zombies.

I hope you enjoyed the lesson despite the criticism but that is what you pay for as long as it's constructive.

In the early days I used to liken my son to a very expensive car, driven by someone who had drunk a little too much, yes you do need to slow down but the speed is not such a bad sign with free skating, it shows you are not too afraid to fall and that is a huge advantage. Most of us get told to speed up, especially the ladies.

As for spiders, he still hates them at the age of 35 and Zombies well he loves a good horror film just the same as I do.

Keep up the good work and when you get that gold we can all say we spoke to you when you took your first lesson.

Cheers
Grace

Really? I admit that I've never seen a Peggy Fleming tape, or anyone from before my time, but it just seems impossible to me that you could get enough rotation otherwise. Clearly the sport has evolved...I wonder, if someone could still do a double axel without crossing their legs (were they actually side by side?!), would they get deducted somehow? It just seems like by today's standards, it would be incorrect. Guess there's nothing in the rulebook about it though. Interesting.

Sounds like my coach. She keeps telling me to slow down. Only the other day, she kept telling me to speed up, but I was already going as fast as I could. But it really is important to slow down to get proper technique, it's easier to notice what you're doing when you go slow.

Yes, it's not so much the speed itself that is a problem. It's that your speed is (a) making it harder for you to work on proper technique and (b) potentially masking improper technique. Speed will be good for you later, but right now it's not.

Competing in Gold in 5 years is an ambitious goal for someone who's never skated before. At least not if you want to be "competitive" and place well. As long as you're enjoying yourself getting there, that's what counts. Not how quickly you get there.

I think there's an issue of clarity here. I am not a new skater.

I learned to skate nearly a decade ago. I am a previous child skater. In fact, I learned on the very rink I'm skating on right now until the college semester is over. I took hockey lessons at that time, however. Was even a goalie in middle school. I am well aware there are technique differences between hockey skating and figure skating, but it is because of this previous experience that I have decent command of the ice when it comes to speed and control during simple forward and backward motion and why I am not afraid to fall or otherwise get roughed up while attempting tricks.

Re: the "non-crossed legs" axel...

I have seen them done a few ways... The first, for a single, is as you jump from your left/take-off leg, once you get in the air right/free-leg straightens and the left/take-off leg bends, but does not cross the right leg (almost like a one foot spin, but looser). This can be done with a double too. The other way is to do more of an "open axel" but not as extreme as a true open axel.

In my opinion, the tight "backspin" position in the air is a result of a few things. First, coaches push push push skaters to land jumps, even if they maky not have the strength or technique. So these smaller skaters complete the rotatation VERY quickly, and when they land their leg is usually still wrapped around the landing leg. Dorothy Hamill started skating when she was 8, Peggy Flemming 9-10--and I am sure they were not working on axels in a year like skaters are now. The second reason is that athletes push for more dfficulty in the jumps (more rotation, etc) to be competitive, and to make a triple jump work (especially an axel) you need to rotate fast to make it around-->hence the tighter backspin position in the air.

I love seeing old skating peformances (prior to maybe 1975) because people never fell in competitions, and they did every single skill beautifully -- it wasn't about desperately trying to land a jump. I love the sport now, but for different reasons (exciting to see what skaters are trying now, etc).

__________________
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Natalie

http://www.ILoveTaB.com

Then you have a good chance of suceeding!!

I have seen hockey players about your age literally ROCKET through the test system, and even know one who competed at Sectionals recently (in dance) after about 3 years on figure skates.

It CAN be done -- good luck to you Kevin. You are going to have a BLAST!!!

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