Just to sum up a few of everyones questions.

My dd is now 4.5 getting ready for beta test and working on Basic 6 and 7 moves in privates.

She tries waltz jumps on her own and it makes me nervous because she has had no instruction.

Her coach doesnt believe in setting goals/plans. She likes to just go with the flow.

I would love to skate with her but I have younger children i have to tend to and would have to pay a babysitter on top of a coach if i wanted to get on the ice with her.

no, I meant, parents can be involved in coach changes etc, but only if the child is unhappy, I think. they shouldn't be saying, "oh Suzie is learning her toeloop, why is my daughter only on her bunnyhop??" or at least they should bring up the issue with the coach.

thanks for the clarifications, littlekateskate...
I still seriously recommend a coach switch for you. I don't think that you're happy with the coach - and you should be. Unless the coach changes her attitude to suit your requirements, you'll never be happy. Trust me... you will regret the wasted time later.

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But I assume that in isolation, any skater doing doubles could do a BO edge for 5 seconds (and better d@mn well be able to, otherwise teaching double to the skater would be inexcusable)? I don't mean holding a BO edge on the landing of a jump, I mean just any old BO edge.

I have taught skaters whose "backward one-foot skating" is basically pick the foot up and put it right down again. These skaters are not ready to do a waltz jump. In the USFSA basic skills program, backward one-foot glide is on badge 3, and the waltz jump isn't until badge 8.

If she's trying to jump on her own and just messing about, I wouldn't panic too much. I find that a little bit of messing is good to just to push your sense of balance. If she's not doing it all the time, she's hardly likely to pick up bad habits if she's mainly working on what she is being taught.
As you said she's 4 and a half and if she's having fun on the ice that's half the battle. I can also understand why the coach might be inclined to go with the flow at her young age, although I'd take a careful look at her lessons and see how structured they are.
I've been very lucky in always having a good coach, my sister has just been moaning about her coach spending her whole lesson going with the flow. It means very little gets done, as attention gets wasted on those little "i'm having an off-day" errors, which won't be there the next time. Apparently the coach is correcting things, which create more problems and then corrects the next problem, but has missed the fundamental which was causing all the errors in the first place.

And I hope that you do get a chance to join her on the ice one day (when the little ones are older?), as she'll have that chance to teach her mum and having watched a lot of the little ones do that, it really helps their skating as it makes them focus on what they're doing. That and it's really good for their confidence to be better than mum at something.

Keep with it, and I'm sure she'll be waltz jumping away with a coach some time soon. If she's progressing quickly at the moment, she's probably only a term or two away from jumping anyway.

I am not sure its a coaching issue , I think its more a parent hurry up issue. I dont mean to come across as harsh but you do worry alot about your skater and she is very very young.
You have no clue if she will like skating when she is 6,8 or 10. You have no idea if she have natural talent. You have no idea if she will end up hating comps and just want to do shows.
I think my dd had a waltz jump between 4/5. It in no way looks like her jumps from now.Its in no way is an indication of how well she will do when she is older.
This skater has already changed rinks and programs, and the op doesnt seem happy. Just slow down and relax, if its meant to be it will be.

My DD ( who is 5 ) just has her waltz jump. She started from a standstill on a line and has now progressed to entering from a back crossover. Sometimes they are good. Sometimes they are horrid. Whatever. Her coach is happy with her overall skating progress. She has really good edges * for her age * as her coach says. And she is a happy skating girl. So I am happy.

Having said that though her older brother also skates and he likes to push her into trying new jumps off the ice which she then tries on the ice. She has a toe loop that is *sort-of* recognisable but would I tell people she has a toe loop ? No way

Sometimes, it is the mom who needs to change her attitude to suit the coach's requirements...but I am only speaking from my own experience. Most of the time, it is a little bit of both, and a whole lot of learning each other. We have been with our coach for almost 3 years now, and we (coach and I) are finally getting into a comfortable we-know-our-boundaries kind of relationship. She can't mother, and I can't coach, but my dd needs both of us just as much.

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BuggieMom
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Some people are like a Slinky...not really good for anything,
but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs....

When I teach kids 3 turns most of them can turn but can't hold the exit edge because of lack of back edge control and practice. Five seconds is the stated requirement, but three seconds would be acceptable, they don't know that. When my own coach is on a tear about landing positions, it's definitely five seconds, a long five seconds. To continue, the reason for both 3 turns, assuming CCW skater (landing on R foot) RFI turn and LFO jumped should be somewhat demonstrated. The RFI mimicks the actual turn of the waltz in terms of the body position and landing edge, and is also the entrance for the toe loop which is quite teachable after the waltz. The LFO jumped three, the idea of that is to feel that in jumping the three that there's a toepick and lift involved with rotation. There's tons of ways to teach waltzes, but when the waltz jump isn't working, I go back to these sorts of things.

Just walked in from a competition where my daughter took gold, and started reading this forum. She was placed over skaters with doubles AND axels, although she has neither yet (Canadian Preliminary). Why? Because she has very strong skating skills (edges, turns, power); good transitions and footwork; height and power on her jumps; good clean landings with excellent presentation and good posture; and jump & spin combinations that are fairly good for difficulty (lutz/loop e.g.); and, also, maturity in skating expression. These are all factors that her coach has worked on, and focused on, and drilled, and that, working on, has delayed the achievement of a successful axel.

A lot of the ones she was skating against were rushed thru getting jumps, and often because their best friend/worst enemy was working on/achieving getting such and such a jump (the parent pushing it often more than the kid); and because the parent wanted to see that measurable progression of 'yes she's got a toeloop/flip/ whatever' - and the coach let it happen. Now, they're stuck with poor fundamentals, and, if they want to go forward, are going to have to go back and work on skating skills, landings, edges, etc - while my daughter is NOW ready to put a real axel on the table for a goal, and and move forward towards doubles with the foundation that she needs.

just my two cents worth.

I would caution you about taking only ONE person's opinion about your daughter's skating. There are some "high level coaches" who can't coach basic beginners. I skate at a rink where we have some of the most talented ice dancers in the US who have gone to Worlds/Olympics. Yet, just because a coach has taken someone to Worlds doesn't mean that they can teach a beginner. Every coach has their strengths. There is an art to bringing out the BEST in a skater, regardless of level.