Hi folks I am asking for some views on this. My DD (9) has jumps up to axel and has started 2sal. She still skates in what her coach calls baby skates. She is light and quite small for her age and has been in Jackson Classique with a mkIV blade for 18 months. It is coming up time for her to get bigger boots and coach says she needs more advanced blades ie coronation ace. Coach seems to think they will make a real difference to her skating and make her doubles easier. Are they really likely to make that much of a difference? In cost terms it would be a difference of about £100 so need advice.

Yes, I'm surprised she's got so far in beginner blades! I'm also surprised your coach is recommending as low-level a blade as Coronation Ace for someone starting doubles - they are generally considered a good all-round blade until you start doubles, by which time you're thought to want something with a bit more wellie. Definitely upgrade, and be guided by both her coach and her fitter.

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Mrs Redboots
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Between the blades you mentioned, yes, I think it will make a big difference.
(If coach was asking you to choose between a $200 blade and a $600 blade, at that level, it's not necessary.) The blade you mention she has now is meant to be a recreational blade- although you probably could do doubles on it, it's not what it is designed for.

The large toe pick will help toe assisted jumps, and possibly her jump landings, and there is something about the blade (maybe it's the quality of the metal) that helps spins immensely. She should also notice a difference in her turns- for me when I made the recreational to entry level freestyle blade switch turns almost felt effortless compared to the old blade.

I started with the Ultima Mirage, which comes on the Jackson Competitor- a slightly higher level blade then what your DD is at now. When I moved to a higher level blade it made a HUGE difference, and I could feel it immediatly in my turns and jumps. It took a little while to get used to the difference in the spins, but once I got them they were faster than ever.

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If she's working on doubles, she should be in a better boot and blade combination. My DDs (11 year-old twins) are wearing Jackson Freestyle skates. I upgraded one pair to Coronation Ace blades and DD loves them! It took about a week to transition from the Mark IVs to the CorAces, but her spins and jumps have improved tremendously.

Step up from Jackson Classiques to Jackson Freestyle boots. The biggest advantage, other than the better support, is that the Freestyles are all leather. When they start to get a bit tight, they can be stretched by a pro shop to get a few extra weeks. The Jackson Freestyle boots can be ordered without a blade, which lowers the cost. However, it has to be ordered - very few pro shops keep them in stock, boots only.

The John Wilson Coronation Ace blade is really good, but expensive. The Mitchell-King (MK) Professional blade is comparable to the Coronation Ace blade.

I did some blade research a few months ago. A skate tech had suggested I switch from JW Gold Seals to Jackson Ultima Freestyle blades. I checked ou the catalog, hoping to find something for my DDs. It looks like ALL of the Jackson Ultima blades have 8' rockers! They've grouped the blades into beginner, intermediate, and advanced skating levels, but I couldn't find a 7' rockered blade.

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The MKIV is a terrible blade for jumping the toe picks are really small and provide virtually no grip. A more advanced blade will definitely improve toe jumps

The Cornation Ace or the Comet are both very good blades for use up to double Lutz. The main difference between these two blades is the rocker the Ace is a 7 ft rocker, the Comet is a flatter blade (8 ft rocker) and IMO is actually the better blade to learn on.

It is less forgiving for spinning, you have to learn to be more accurate with hitting the sweet spot for spins, but provides more edge for your stroking and thus a bit more speed. Both these should be reasonably priced.

You will likely need to step up to a better boot, the Classique if I recall comes with the MKIV pre-mounted. If the Jacksons are a good fit then stick with them and move to the next boot up. A good alternative price wise are Risports, they are well built skates and come in a whole range of sizes and widths. The one knock on them is some coachs don't like the lines of the boot as much as some of the other brands.

I'm going to disagree with you. The Mark IV blade is fine for beginning freestyle jumps, including single toe-assisted jumps.

Beginners really should start out with a small toerake because the coaches want the technique to be correct. A larger toerake for a beginner often leads to sloppy or incorrect technique because they can cheat the toe-in more easily.

The OP's daughter is now learning doubles, which will benefit from the larger toerake, which is why I recommended moving up to a better blade.

Another note for the OP: Have the pro shop measure (length & width) her feet and order the boots. Some shops won't order the blades until the boots arrive, so they can check the fit of the boots on her feet before mounting the blades. They also want to measure the soles of the boots to order the correct blade length. It will take a little longer than just walking into a pro shop to buy a stock set. You'll need to make an appointment for the initial measurement and ordering. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes, unless they have the boots in stock.

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I will accept your disagreement. I actually looked up a picture of the MK IV online and the pick is more agressive that it used to be. My first skates came with an earlier version of this blade where the picks were miniscule.

My kids, and some students, have been in Jackson skates for years. There was a manufacturing issue with their stock blades at some point around five years ago. The blade chroming kept peeling off, IIRC.

Perhaps Jackson changed suppliers and upgraded the blade, because the Mark IV's I've seen for the past three years are all nice beginner freestyle blades.

I also think that there's an older, discontinued, Mitchell & King (MK) blade that is often confused with the Mark IV blade. There are a few threads discussing the confusion, so that might have been the blade you're thinking about.

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Really? My daughter is in a Jackson Freestyle boot with the Mark IV blade. She isn't attempting doubles but is attempting axels in them. Hmm.... good to know for future reference!

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Thanks folks

I wasn't sure if it was just a way of getting more business to the pro shop. She has stayed in the boots she has purely because her feet haven't grown and they haven't broken down yet. She has only been seriously skating (having private lessons) for 15 months. Everyone is astonished that they haven't broken down yet, but I guess it is just because she is small and light.

I guess we will be shopping in the new year.

Thanks again

Well keep in mind I'm an adult- so I started in a bit higher boot than kids because of my weight. The blade came with it, which is why I didn't start on Mark IV. (But when I switched blades someone bought my Mirage blades to switch out on the Mark IV. Still a pretty low level blade, but maybe slightly better) But yeah, when I got a higher quality blade I could definetly tell.

Based on the kids in my freestyle class, most of whom are in Jackson Freestyles, with the Mark IV blade- after the axel is learned is when the coach starts pestering the parents to move the blade up a level, but keeping the boot is usually fine. The Freestyle is a better boot than the Classique.
The girl in my class who is just now starting double loop (she has double toe, and double salchow at varying levels of consistency) has just moved up to a better boot, the kind where the blades don't come on it. Her parents resisted the blade change before then, so she learned her first two doubles on the Mark IV, even though the coach was not happy about it.

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What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

I agree about the freestyles! My daughter(11) is in these skates as are a few other kids at the rink. Less expensive then Riedell and seem to be a nice boot! We'll likely order the same boot again with an upgraded blade. The blade will likely be the MK Professional blade. A lot of kids at dd's rink skate on that blade too.

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You could be right about the Mitchell & King VS MK IV issue. It was some time ago (10 years) and I no longer have the blade to check.

Anyway I think we are in agreement over the basic point which was it's time to upgrade the blade and likely the boot as well.

My dd is working on doubles and has the Coronation Ace blade on a GAM boot. The blade made a huge difference to her skating. It also has the advantage of holding a sharpening better so you can go a bit longer between sharpenings. I agree with whoever said to wait until you get the boot before you order the blade. I know when GAM and Jackson merged a few years ago that there were some changes and the blade sized needed for some boots changed. We're fortunate to have a skate shop where they stock a wide selection of boots and blades, but if you don't have that, wait to make sure you get the correct size blade.

Some say that GAM has a blade that is exactly the same as the Ace, but for less money. We tried that once and were not impressed. They didn't stay sharp and were worn out in under a year. Love the GAM boots, the blades, not so much!

I agree that the Ace-level is excellent. However, we have discovered that ISE and/or Ultima produce excellent blades at better price points. Ultima's blades are extremely well made; initially, there were problems with quality many years ago, however, that has been resolved. If your coach is after the Ace rocker and toepick, you can find a corresponding blade in both lines that will save you significant dollars, which is nice, especially in a growing foot situation. We have been very pleased with the Ultimas on our DD, and will be moving our DS to them on the next boot switch; our skate blade guy, who is considered to be very much of exceptional quality in terms of expertise, confirms the quality of Ultima and ISE.

If the Classique fits your DD, then, stay with Jackson; Freestyles are good boots, and they work well. We stopped using them because they don't fit our kids feet properly, however, I wish they did as I do like that line of boots. But, if she's not breaking down the Classique ... the Freestyle may be a problem in terms of kneebend and stiffness, because they are a stronger boot. There are techniques (look on this forum for threads) to help break them in faster.

As a thought: Can you change the blades on a Classique? I have been able to swap out blades on even the intro level Riedells, even though they do come only in a boot and blade combo, because the blades are screwed in, not riveted in.

GAM blades - not impressed - the quality is not good.

In my opinion only, blades make a huge difference.

When I switched from Coronation Comet to MK Professionals, my skating improved drastically, and I was actually able to spin decently.

One of my teenage skating buddies switched to MK Visions a couple of months ago - she is starting doubles - and it really helped her a lot. I'm not sure what blades she had before, but she's extremely happy with the visions.

Another teenage skating buddy has had Coronation Aces for years, and she has almost of her doubles and they are gorgeous.

ITA. My DD's coach had her upgrade from Cor Aces to Gold Seals or Pattern 99's when she started doubles. She went wtih Gold Seals and they made an amazing difference right away. They were particularly helpful in landing jumps.

Comets are notoriously difficult to spin on. They have an 8.5 foot rocker, which can make finding the spin spot a problem.

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Not sure about putting other blades on the classique, they have platic soles, which my daughter loves as they are light and she has seen the state some other kids soles are in (leather). Don't get me wrong she isn't too tiny I don't think, nearly 10 and around 133cm tall but slim. I am only 5ft 2inch so guess she will never be tall! She is also a light skater as in she lands very softly even though she has a deep knee bend. Does anyone know if you can fit other blades onto these boots? It would be a good compromise in my daughter's opinion.

I've had really good luck with Ultimas, I'm on my 3rd pair of Ultima Synchro blades. I no longer do synchro, but I do both dance and freestyle and they've been a good all purpose blade for doing both. They hold an edge much longer than other blades I've worn over the years (I've used Wilsons--Coronation Aces, Super Dance 99s and MK Gold Stars) so they need less sharpenings and therefore last longer. The synchro blades are only $130, too.

I may actually go back to the Gold Stars when I get new boots after 2010 ANs since I do a lot more freestyle than dance nowadays (and can just use my old boots with the Ultimas if I want a shorter blade for dance), but that's only because I have a pair of Gold Stars that were only used for about 8 months and hardly sharpened hanging around the house. When you have $500+ blades just sitting around, you might as well use them. (I actually got them for free, my uncle used to work for a skate shop, they were a sample.) I remember I really liked them back when I had them on my boots during a break from synchro in college, but I went back to synchro blades when I started synchro again.

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As far as I know you can't switch the blades on plastic soles. My daughter upgraded from the Classique/Mark IV around when she began working on Axels. The boot was okay at the time, but her coach wanted her in a higher blade (Coronation Ace or MK Pro). She went to Freestyle boots and they were fine for her. She was 7 and around 55 lbs, so I don't think Freestyles would be too stiff for your daughter. My daughter is now 8 and skating in Sp-Teri super teri boots/MK Pro blade and those are working well for her. She's currently working on her double jumps.

Yeah, you can't put new blades on plastic soles--anyways she needs to get into a higher grade boot w/ leather soles--those plastic ones aren't meant to take the force of landing larger jumps, and can split.

Yup, Comets can be quite hard to spin on; when we switched DD off of them to Ultima (the Lite ones, actually, which she finds quite a pleasure to skate on, they are very light and the cross-cut picks are better for her, and they just look so fantastic!) - the spins improved immediately. Edges improved too. However, the jumps did have to be revisited, the change in rocker makes the landings different.

Wouldn't it be nice if there was an exact science for blades, that the definitive answer to cross cut vs straight cut, rocker size, etc? It would certainly cut down on the guesswork, and the expense! (and the worry factor for parents ...

Yes you can - my skate fitter has twice changed the blades on plastic-soled Mystiques for my DD - first on her old Mystiques (changed from the rec blade to Club 2000), and then when she outgrew those, moved the Club 2000s to her current Mystiques. She's almost 11yo, with a reliable sal and toe, and is learning the loop jump, plus sit and (ha ha) camel spins.

Her coach was the one to suggest the Club 2000 and is very happy with the support DD is getting from the Mystiques. However, she has said DD will need to upgrade her boots (probably to the Freestyle) and maybe upgrade the blade as well, when she is due for a new pair some time this coming year.

It would indeed! But I think blades, like boots are an individual thing. One person may thrive on Pattern 99's while another just can't get used to them, etc.

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I am always amused/amazed by the variance in blade progression among coaches, fitters, parents, skaters. Some put kids in, for example, Gold Seals at singles; some at doubles; some at triples; some never!

However, here's what Wilson themselves put out re: recommendations. Because I'm Canadian, I know only the Canadian test levels. However, I would say, eyeballing this, that Ace and Comet would take you pretty far up the Doubles ladder (Senior Bronze FS in Canada permits all doubles, except double Axels, in competition).

http://www.mkblades.com/jw-recommendations.html