A championship event at AN is NOT like skating an open event. There's an added tension. You are skating for a national championship in a qualifying event. Go "backstage" at any championship event and you'll feel the tension. I've done both open events and a championship event at AN, and it's very different. I'm not trying to be insulting to those who can't/don't skate at the championship level - I know that those events are very very important too - but it IS different nonetheless.

Any schedule that puts any event with anyone skating a championship event within 24 hours of the championship event is, IM-very-HO, stupid. Period. It's not "doable", it's stupid. The ref made a huge error. It can happen at Sectionals, of course, because of the tight time frame - but competitors can also chose to do just one event, knowing it's likely they'll have more than one in a day. However, AN has four days to work with.

JMHO. I can totally understand why icecatepairs is upset. I'd be livid if I was were in her skates.

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Oh please! The championship evens are not any more important than any other event to any other skater. There's tension with eac h event, and each skater handles it differently. Anyone who enters has to make their own decision as to how many events to skate . It is not the best of planning, but unfortunately it does happen. It's happened to me and if you stick with it long enough it will happen to you. If the had to not schedule any potential conflicting events wihin 24 hours of the "championship" events we'd have a 7 day nationals.

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I totally agree with sk8er1964 on the following points:

It doesn't take a rocket scientest to put together a schedule that doesn't stress skaters out to the hilt. All it takes is a little pre-planning and concern. You look at Champship Gold and another Gold event, such as Gold Interp, for instance, and you say to yourself "Gee, I bet there are several of the same skaters in each event, because it is the same level." So, if they have to be on the same day then one goes in the morning and the other at night--not such a hard thing to do. NOT JUST 1/2 HOUR TO COME DOWN OFF YOUR LAST SKATE AFTER 20 AXELS, MAKE AN OUTFIT CHANGE, HAVE A DRINK OF WATER AND GO, AGAIN!!! I did two tests once, back to back, and I thought I was going to have a f****** stroke!

However, I have to say that I don't care if you are bronze, gold, championship, novice masters, or whatever...nerves are nerves!

Hey, even Michelle Kwan gets a rest between her short and long program.

I totally and emphatically agree with flo. No event is more "important" than another. A skater in Bronze Men is going to get just as nervous as someone in Championship Masters Ladies -- or not. It just depends on how the person handles it. Plus, to that Bronze Man, his event is pretty damn important. He trained just as hard.

Like flo, I've been there as well. We all have -- and if you haven't, you will eventually. It's the nature of the beast.

ETA:

lovepairs, I see your point, but you can't please everyone. AN is a bear to schedule, to be sure. And yeah, the ref screwed up big time. But now he is trying to fix it. The best he can do is avoid conflicts, and, at least in this case, he has.

Again, it happens to everyone. In 2000, my Interp event was a half-hour after my three-hour figure event. Three hours of silent focus -- straight into a fast Interp. Totally different mindset. (Same nerves though!) And not only did I have to change costumes, but skates too! And guess what? I'm still alive to tell the tale.

I also remember in 1998 there was a skater whose dance event was going on at the *same time* as her Interp final round (there were final rounds for Interp in those days!). She did dance and literally ran to the other rink and jumped on the ice for her Interp, then I think ran back to dance -- not sure, she may have been done, but she definitely ran from dance to Interp, and she had to wear the same costume. She came in 2nd in Interp, IIRC!

All the upper level events use to be scheduled very close on Saturday and Sunday. I have run from a final round to a master's pair event. It would be great if we could all have a day break between each event, but it does not always happen. If I could not do two events in one day, no matter how difficult or close, I would not enter two events or unfortunately be prepared to withdraw if I thought that would be best for me.
I hope sk8pairs can work it out and enjoy Nats.

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Daises,

He can't fix it--the damage is done. Once he deviated from the original schedule the damage was done. This fiasco can't be fixed; many people are loosing a lot of money over this. Not to mention the ice time and emotional time they've put into training for their events.

Actually, if the interp event is before Champ Gold, it's a perfect warm-up really...no jumps above a lutz are allowed anyway, and you get 1:40 to skate and warm-up for the championship round.

thak you skater1964 and lovepairs for your support. i feel no need to justify why skating a competitive event 1/2 prior to taking he ice for the champinship gold ladies event is a conflict. anyone who has skated more than one event at this level within an hour of each other would not need an explaination. the interp event falls between the official warmup and competition event. I know some people who take that long to change and relace the skates. i wear customized plastic ankle braces in each skate sand it does take me longer to get my skates on as i would have to take it all apart to change costumes and then get them on again. oh yeah and there is the issue of mental focus. maybe some peiple don't need this , but its worked for me for the last 6 years to be mentally focused before a program.(at least i have alwasy come out alive and somewhat with my dignitly when the music ends..what else can we ask for at our age) oh and we all know that , events never run behind right? the events being within a 1/2 hour of each other is basically the same thing as at the same time. Based on the number of people who have emailed me, pm's me and called the usfsa as well because they are in the same situation seem to agree. last year i skated a packed gold pairs program ( to say the least) for 3:10 and about an hour and 1/2 later took the ice for championship ladies gold and had to try to skate a program with three doubles and 2 axles and plenty of combo spins and footwork. it was not the best situation. anyone who has had to do this can tell you that.


I never claimed one event was harder than another. so lets not out that on me. however maybe some peoples interp programs are a bunch of light skating that they can use for a warmup. i don't skate to josh groban. when i am done with the crazy combo spins, acroabtics on ice, and breakdancing on the ice in the program i might have used a litlte energy. i have see some other people do interp programs in past years that blow the water out of a lot of freestye skates.

the other issue i would like to adress is the depends how you train thing. i do triple run throughs of my freestyle program (yes with the jumps) in practice . sometimes after a 2 hour pairs practice . somewhere in there i run the interp. i am not saying one person is harder worker than another if they choose to do this or not. its simply how i choose to train to prepare. maybe it makes me the weaker athlete becaue i have to do this to keep up. that doesn't mean i want my championship gold skate to look like that 3rd run through. last year my partner and i both trained our pairs program back to back with our singles programs in order to prepare for that situation. it was still mentally and physically difficult to do it at nationals. so lets say from an endurance perspective is it possible. sure. but no one at any level should be asked to do this at nationals. silver ladies 4 conflict is just as important as mine.

the bottom line is that eveyones schedule conflict problems are justified. when people complained that their evnets conflicted with their travel plans, that seemd valid. when there events conflicted with their pr prepared days off from work that seemd valid as well. then the schedule was changed to accomadate these situations and those of us who sucked it up the first two time got screwed inthe final version. and suddenly multilple skates back to back is not valid.? its not like it conflicts with my plans for flute lessons. its a conflict created by the scheduling commitee. so if there are people out there who think its no big deal to do that and not try to have the problem resolved, thats fine for you to choose to skate it that way all the more power to you.. i would not insult you for that choice. i would applaud your effort but i would be compassionate to the fact that that might not allow you your best skate. I choose not to sit by and accept that without protest. i do not have to justify that choice to anyone but myself.

I spoke to someone (who's name i cannot disclose) at the usfsa headquarters today and they consider any event that close togehter to be a "ridiculous conflict" thats the most importnat opinion in my mind. apparently so do the 50 other people who called for the same reason.

i have read and sympathized with so much that has been posted here and even gone to bat for anyone i could in letters and phone calls. to then be told in so many words to suck it up. if you go back through my posts i have never made a negative reference to another skater on this forum. i'm sorry that you feel it empowers you to so so. I guess i thought we were all venting among friends. If i go to dallas and fall on every element and finish dead last , i would like to know that i was at least given the fair oppurtunilty to put my best foot foward. the rest will have been my responsibility to step up to the plate. everyones performance is that important regardless of the level, and everyone should be given the same fart opportunity as their competitiors.

enough of all of this . its time to focus on skating . i wish everyone the best of luck in dallas, and i mean everyone. i will not lower myself to the standard of judging anyones grievence. if it is of concern to them it is important.

see you all on the ice. i will be ther cheering for my friends in broze just as loud as my two friends in championship masters.

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Q:If landing an axle is 3 times your body weight, then how many times your body weight is the landing of a throw axle
A: depends on whos throwing you and how much you lied about your weight on your pairs profile


a can of stickum : $5.95
the email asking "how do you get this sticky stuff off " ...priceless

those are great ideas...now what lift were we doing again?

hey Tim...i finally figured out how to get the sticky stuff off!

Missing: east coast stunt doubles poster

skate1964, thank you for being supportive and i didn't mean to discredit anything you said in my defense..i hear you about the extra added tension at a championhip event. you feel it too huh? after i reread my post it sounded like i didn't appreciate your going to bat for me and thats not the case...for the record...i feel it a sectionals more!!! getting an invite o the party is harder than attending it!!

__________________
Q:If landing an axle is 3 times your body weight, then how many times your body weight is the landing of a throw axle
A: depends on whos throwing you and how much you lied about your weight on your pairs profile


a can of stickum : $5.95
the email asking "how do you get this sticky stuff off " ...priceless

those are great ideas...now what lift were we doing again?

hey Tim...i finally figured out how to get the sticky stuff off!

Missing: east coast stunt doubles poster

It must be very frustrating for you.... dancers have to deal with this the whole time, as we have two compulsory dances which, in most competitions, are skated back to back - and they can be dances of very different character, like a waltz and a cha-cha, or a tango and a blues. We often don't even get time to change our dresses, and have to dance a blues in a Latin dress, or a waltz in a Blues dress..... it's not easy! But it's do-able, I suppose because it's how dance is. Much harder for free skaters, who aren't used to changing mindset at a moment's notice!

However, I'm sure that a skater of your calibre - and let's face it, you are good - will be able to handle it.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

iceskatepairs...I don't think anyone disagrees with you that scheduling conflicts are awful. It's happened to many of us at least once. And ANs is a bear to schedule. This year it's been disastrously bad. But it is doable to skate your two programs within an hour. It's a pain in the ###, but doable. Especially if you train the way you do with triple run throughs, if anyone can handle it it's you. You're more than prepared. So try not to worry abot it and skate the best you can. Sometimes I've done my best programs when I've been more tired than usual, so you may surprise yourself.

Mrs. Redboots - good point. I've watched many of my dancer friends scramble into other costumes. Fortunately they are well trained for this.
Icecatepairs, as Manley said, no one disagrees with the fact that the schedule sucks - but also right in that you are also well trained and capable of this and rising to the occasion. The best of luck.

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I'd be royaly pissed off if I did my one event only to find out the other arena was a 1/2 hour ahead and they couldn't hold my other event.

Silliness.

That's ok - I knew what you meant. I also knew other folks would hammer me for saying what I said anyways. As I'm sure you know, I'm not talking about personal nerves, I'm talking about the tension, the expectations (both internal and external) that surround championship events. And I would not have believed it either, if I hadn't experienced it myself. Hang in there!

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"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." -- Vidal Sasson

"Never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The time will pass anyway." -- Unknown

Ditto from me.

icecatepairs, your post suggests -- well, actually, states flat out -- that those of us who don't think it's a conflict haven't been in your shoes. We have. It's not that we're not sympathetic -- and we agree it's not the best situation -- but we know it's doable. You sound like you are well-trained, so put that training to use, get out there, and kick some butt!

Icatepairs, you are going to do fine, you are well trained and you've done this event before. The scheduling is obviously, less than ideal and I don't think anyone envys your position. You will do fine and like you mentioned, getting there...is 1/2 the battle and you've already done that.

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http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

The point is not Icecate being able to "suck it up," or rally to this situation. The point is a poorly conceived schedule, and the incompetence that put it together. It's typical when something like this happens that the person who is put out by it has to either swallow the loose of money, or swallow it up emotionally. So, everyone cheers Icecate on with "come on you can do it, you can do it!" We know she's a tough cookie and can do whatever she sets her mind, too, but that's not the point. The point is that we need competent people appointed to these assignments/positions who are really interested in doing a good job and seeing the project through. This is what we should be focusing upon: finding a way to send a message to the USFSA that we won't tolerate this type of inconsideration anylonger, rather wasting our energy telling Iceskate to "suck it up."

Redboots, I'm sure if they could easily find a way NOT to put your od back to back with another one of your dances that you would welcome that rather than always having to tolorate skating the tango cha cha lango (or, whatever it's called) in your Polka outfit.

Come on people as "adult skaters" by definition we are already "sucking it up" we don't need anymore superfulous pressure that could have easily been avoided in the first place if there was a competent at the helm putting this schedule together.

Again, I don't disagree with you. But now that the schedule's been set, I'd rather put a positive spin on it and let any skater know that they can handle it rather than dwell on the bad. And in the meantime work on getting more help and recognition from the USFS for adult skating.

And if you think this only happens in adult skating and never happens to the kids, you'd be quite wrong. I seem to recall a huge event recently (at this year's Nationals?) that the men's event ran late into an evening and their practice ice was scheduled at crack of dawn the next day. Many of the men missed it and #####ed about the scheduling. Clearly sometimes it just happens.

We are all putting a positive spin on it. Believe me, even though I sent in a check for $127 worth of practice ice, which was never confirmed, I know that when I get to Dallas that my partner and I might not have been scheduled in for the practice ice. We've already googled all of the rinks in Dallas, just incase we have to make due. I agree with you, too: it is what it is now, and we have to make due with it, and have a lot of fun in the process--we've all waited all year for this--we all know how to "suck it up," and we will all make due.

However, if everyone is complacent with "this just happens sometimes" then nothing will change, and you can be guaranteed that this will happen, again, if not in Chicago then maybe the next one. Again, it was uncalled for that it happened to us, and it is uncalled for when this happens to the kids. I think we need to suggest/demand that someone be appointed (even two years out) to come up with a schedule that is not perfect, but is reasonable for Adult Nationals, which takes into account conflicting competitive levels as well as adult needs to make arrangments, at least, a month (if not two months) in advance. This new schedule is ratified and used as a boiler plate for every AN--a schedule that works and is dependable from year to year. AN is always one week long, held on the same days, and should only be bid out to rinks and homeclubs that can guarantee us the entire facility for this week. Believe me, I am going to be in the North Rink at 7:10pm on Thursday the 30th to see if there is a Hockey game, public session, or kids party, because I really do believe that this is where all the trouble started--with this big hole in the schedule on Thursday night, which I think is why everything got bumped up to Wed. and the schedule so radically shifted. If anyone would like to join me on Thurday night to see why our competition ends at 7:10pm that evening, I'd love the company. I'll be in the stands--see you then!

Amen to that. At ISI worlds last year, it ran 5 days at 4 different rinks, all over the local area., some 40 miles apart. Im sure it was hard to do, but if you want it bad enough you do suck it up and deal.
My daughters last comp, she had events at 8am, 7pm and in between.Its just part of skating. They didnt mess up because you are an adult and they dont support adults. They just made a huge mistake !!
I wish everyone well !!! We have an adult ice dancer going from up here.

Well, I don't think it is possible to come up with a schedule that takes place in 4 days (Wed-Sat), and satisfy your 24 hour requirement. If someone is entered in a dance event, they will have an Initial Round and a Final Round. Two years ago, I could have entered Pre-Gold Dance, Championship Dance, Bronze Ladies, and Masters Interp. I think there was someone who once entered dance, pairs, singles and interp at various levels. There's just too many people who enter multiple events, and add to that the complications of the levels. Plus you never know how many will enter at each level, or if they will have qualifying rounds, etc...

As a skater, if I enter multiple events, I would expect that there is a possibility that my events will be back to back. But what I also expect is that the LOC will do their best to ensure that my events are not at the same time.

I think the original schedule (the one in the announcement and what they've used for years) is pretty good and maybe they should just stick to that.

Edited: Sorry -- but I originally thought those quotes were from the same person... now I'm too lazy to edit my post

I just noticed the other night that the Silver Ladies 4 final round is running simultaneously as the Silver Interp Comedy 4 on the two rink surfaces. As in the past there is bound to be some last minute scheduling adjustments for problems like these (although it is unsettling). They always adjust for a genuine sametime conflict, but the interval between the events may still be tight. Changing into an elaborate character interp costume is difficult to do quickly - but I've done it once before. I actually was so focused on making the costume changes that I didn't have time to get nervous about the skating!

Okay, you all want to keep dealing with these problems and take the "suck it up" approach--be my guest.

I'm very interested in working with other adult skaters who are interested in affecting some change for the future that is for the better. I suppose we will all find one another at AN, and, perhaps, have a chance to talk about this with appointees of the USFSA adult committee. I'm certain that there is something concrete that we can do together so that this type of fiasco never happens, again.

Hey everyone. Here's my two cents ...

- Nobody should have to skate 2 events so close together, but if anyone can do it, Icecate can. I personally agree w/ the person that said it'd make a nice warm-up for the freestyle event, but that's an individual thing. Costume change is the tricky thing. And mental preparation is an area where ymmv.

- The organizers should have a policy that every attempt will be made to avoid conflicts, then state the priority for conflict avoidance (e.g. a skater shouldn't have to do singles and pairs on the same day), then have a quick & easy refund for that which cannot be avoided.

- I'd imagine that in a well-attended event with a number of people entering greater than 3 events, it must get to be a big puzzle. Mathematically speaking, it must be hard. I'm picturing them with a big table and little tokens for each skater, like when doing a seating chart at a wedding. It's like that 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon game -- "We can't do silver men on Thursday because Tim is skating pairs with Tara that day, and we can't do pairs on Friday because Tara is doing champ. gold that day, and Judy can't do pairs on Saturday because she's doing her freestyle, and Marna is doing interp. on Saturday so her pairs can't go then but Wednesday would be good but Stephen has silver then - back to Tim!" LOL

- I agree with the person that said the 24 hr rule would drag AN out for a week. But maybe you can never have the skater have to go twice w/in 4 hours.

So here's my suggestion ... You create a policy that states a "best attempt" to not schedule conflicts for skaters, with a guarantee that certain conflicts will not exist, then list those out. For example, a skater will not have to do a freestyle and pairs skate on the same day. Then you list out the conflicts that will be avoided if possible in order of priority. You clearly state that those conflicts at the bottom of the list may happen, for example, interp clashing with pairs. Then you give the skater an automatic refund if they choose to withdraw after the final schedule is posted.

We all have to be practical about it. Let's say next year at AN I enter silver men, interp, pairs, and pairs interp (if they have it by then.) My partner (Icecate) is in pairs and pairs interp, champ gold, gold, and interp. Right there somebody will have a conflict that won't be ideal. So you make your choice and you may not get to do an event. It's like going to Disney World - what ride are you not going to do becasue you just don't have time in the day?

Tim

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People dream of flying, birds dream of skating.

At some competitions they do - all the dancers, from the lowest to the highest, do their first dance, then they all do their second dance. And the 2nd round, if there is one, is done either later on or on another day, depending on the length of the competition. But that doesn't always happen, and wouldn't necessarily work if it did.

The point is, there's nothing that can be done for this year, alas. Skaters have two choices - to "suck it up", to use your mysterious phrase, and skate anyway, despite the inconvenience, or to withdraw and take the inevitable financial loss. Most people would, I think, prefer to skate if it's humanly possible!

Once the event is over, I hope - and expect - everybody will make a Great Big Noisy Fuss to the Adult Committee and any other appropriate bodies, to ensure that safeguards are in place so that such a muddle doesn't happen again.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!