Caroline Zhang had probably been doing this spin ages before kayla. There are youtube clips of Caroline doing that at world juniors.

Caroline brings her foot down to her head after she does a biellman- this spin the foot is first brought to the head, and then extended. It's the same position, but not the same action to get there- I don't know if that counts as a difference or not- I really don't understand the system- but it seems like a much greater chance of slicing your face, since you get in position with the blade near your face, rather than get into position, then pull the foot down.

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

How do they know who invents spins? Does "invent" mean first person to do it in competition? There are girls who have incredible spins in practice that they just haven't put in their program- anyone who sees them practice could try it and then get credit.

Do competitions across the world keep track of any new spin that someone in another country might have done?

What if two skaters have the same "new" spin in their programs- does the one who pulls first in the draw get the "invention" credit? (yeah, I know that case is unlikely- but it's not unlikely to think two people are working on the exact same thing on opposite sides of the world without realizing it- that's happened alot throughout history on various things. Is it just whomever has a competition to go to first?)

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

That's very true skittl. Although, probably what counts is the spin itself...maybe. Like, how someone gets into this stance or position doesn't count right? Although, we could call it a different spin combo. As for the spin itself, it can't be a new spin because someone has already been doing that I'd say.

I don't really know how exactly they determine it. I'm sure there are at least half a dozen others who have done this spin in competition, before both Kayla and Caroline. It does have to be shown in competition, though, like jskater mentioned with the beilmann. The draw for that competition shouldn't matter though -- if two people do the same new spin in the same competition, they both get the bonus, but only for that one competition, not for the whole season.

Honestly, I can't think of any other instance where the extra points have been given out, though.

I wondered that as well. I was expecting Caroline to get that new move bonus last season for her "pearl" spin position but she never did. I'm not sure exactly what the rules are as far as how they determine when to give that out, but knowing the ISU, it's probably complicated.

__________________
"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Kevin van der Perren said he was gonna put two new never-done spins in his programme this year... I saw him train this summer, but I didn't get to see the new spins.
But uh, maybe they'll explain about it when he does them for the europeans on dutch tv, if they do I'll let you know.

At about 2:05 or so in this vid Swiss champ Nathalie Krieg does the most incredible Biellman variation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8d55TwbhPE

Kay

__________________
Visit my figure skating journal
http://www.skatejournal.com/

Yes, it definately is.

Firstly, Caroline Zhang wasn't born when Denise won the European competition with the pirouette. We are talking about 1971 and 1981 and not 1993 when Caroline was born

Also, the pirouette invented by Karen Iten of Aegeri, Zug, Switzerland and shown to teammate and popularized by Denise Biellman is performed with a vertical and straight upper body and the skate drawn up the back to head height.

Originator/Inventor or whatever of the pirouette was quite definitely Karin Iten and she copied nobody.

A photo of the correct form of the pirouette by Biellmann http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biellmann_spin

Cheers
airnuts

Spin History
Cecilia Colledge of Great Britain performed a one-handed Biellmann spin in 1937. There is a famous photograph of her doing the spin at the 1937 World Figure Skating Championships. Tamara Moskvina of the Soviet Union performed the spin at the 1965 European Championships and there if a famous photo of her doing it as well. Both Janet Champion and Slavka Kohout of the United States performed this spin early on.

The two handed stretched above the head version
The spin is named after Swiss skater Denise Biellmann, who popularized the move. Biellmann performed the spin beginning in the 1970s, having learned it from her teammate, fellow Swiss skater Karin Iten. Biellmann performed the spin on her way to becoming World Champion and the spin was officially named for her. It is the only figure skating spin officially named after a skater in International Skating Union regulations.
Thks to Wikipedia