Hi all,

I just joined the group to ask about my daughter's trouble to spin and I do want to introduce my self.
Few years ago (before kids) I learned how to skate myslef. Not much, forward, backward, skullys, crossovers (forward), pumping and such. No spins or jumps of course. After kids came we all went for family skates and we loved it. One of my daughters started group lessons, and things are escalating fast. She started once a week, now is twice, she did the local show last year, she will do one more this spring. She also went to a few local competitions (the closests on the map) and loved it. She avoided competing to levels that had spins (3 and 5 ). She is pretty good if that has any meaning in skating. Her stongest moves are backward crossovers, waltz jumps and forward strocking.
We are now getting in to the "figure skating world" and I admitt I know nothing about. Very recently I was told (from our teacher) about skating clubs, testings and such. We also realised that skating has "no end", meaning is unbelievable competitive and we need to be careful how we approach, setting goal etc.
So count on me asking tons of questions!!!!

Yes, skating has an alarming habit of escalating beyond all expectation! I hope you will carry on skating, too - it's not just for young girls, as I'm sure you have realised, through reading some of the posts in this and the "On Ice - Skaters" forum.

The thing is, very very few girls who start so confidently become stars, and I'm sure you're sensible enough to realise that the odds of your daughter becoming another Michelle Kwan are vanishingly small. So I hope that however far she does or doesn't progress, you see to it that she is really having fun, with no more pressure than she needs to make her at least try for the next level up. And let her drop it if she stops finding it fun! It's great exercise, and, while it can be horribly competitive and unpleasant, it doesn't have to be - much of the responsibility of that lies with the parents, I'm afraid. Left to themselves, the kids would be friendly, challenging each other, helping each other progress.

I hope she loves it, and will have found herself a sport for life!

Edited to fix a typo!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Yes I keep skating myself. Right now I am working on:
backward crossovers
3-turns
mohawk
T-stops
I skate about 2times a week at public skate (not very crowded). I am very good with the theory but extremely cautious with my moves so I progress very slowly. I guess the adult brain is trying to protect me....

For my daughter I am now trying to set a schedule for next season. I think we will keep the 2 group classes and add a private here and there. The teacher that she has now offers privates so the goal is to stick with her. My daughter loves her. I also noticed that most kids drop skating after level 8. In her class now there are 5 girls and I saw that Freeskate1 has only 2 girls. That's almost like a private! Her teacher also gives classes in 2 skating clubs so eventually we will go to one of those. I am not sure when we should do that.

We have no goal of her becoming Michelle or Sasha!!!! I am not sure she has such a dream either. Right now she wants to become a teacher or a cashier in the supermarket
oh, she also wants to become a swimmer ..

If she sticks with it, she can teach skating when she is ready for a real job. She will earn more than doing anything else available to teenagers these days.

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That's for sure! My friends are green with jealously when we talk about our jobs. While they're making minimum wage, I'm making close $40 an hour.

I don't know. Seasonal work and if your hurt your out of a job. I know people that got cushion jobs in school. 20 years later they're still doing them just scraping by cause now they have a family. Meanwhile, I've gone to school and now work in a highrise building and if they don't teach my children, they starve!!

Romantics seem to end when you rely on your favorite sport for income!!

The thread was really talking about teenagers teaching skating, not someone making a full-time profession out of it. While ice skating may be seasonal in your area, we have a number of year-round rinks. Injuries and long-term disability are a concern in any career; I know of a corporate IT person who's currently on 65% pay because of cancer.

Our skating director, while underpaid, is a full-time skating professional. She's happy making a living while doing something she loves - sounds like a winning situation to me.

I know a number of skating instructors who are current or future school teachers. They're great, especially for group lessons, because they know how to manage classes and handle student issues. Given how underpaid school teachers are, the extra income from skating pays off.

So, which Alicia are you today? Mr or Mrs?
We like to know who we're talking to, you see.

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As Isk8NYC said, skating is most definitely not a seasonal sport here. I coach year-round. More in the summer actually, because I have more free time. In addition to that, I have a job at a local pizza shop. Coaching skating is not my primary income, I started coaching a synchro team for free because I love it, and was later approached by some of the parents asking for private lessons for their kids, who offered money.

I do know plenty of people that coach as their only job. Coaching a synchro team or two, for example, is a full time job in itself. One of my good friends coaches 2 of them a bit north of here, has a few private students, and it works just fine for her.

I'm not sure where you're from Alicia... But you mustn't be anywhere near a "big city" rink if you only thought figure skating was seasonal. I'd say that if you said that in a Boston area rink, you'd be laughed at. Geez, I bet my mom would love it if my sister asked to take the summer off. She'd save thousands of dollars!

I think he/ she is from Canada, but I wouldnt think skating is seasonal there either. I know here, we could use more coaches and LTS teachers.We dont have enough !!!!Our skating is year around here too.
My daughters coachs income is all skating, and so is our other coach. At 60.00 they do ok !!

I just had to come out of hibernation to reply because I caught up on the "6 year old rejects coach?" thread and now this one, and "Alicia" makes my skin crawl.

All the coaches at all 5+ rinks I visit regularly have AMAZING cars. Amazing houses. Amazing clothes. They get paid anywhere between $105 to $140 an hour. That's because they're great at what they do. If you're no good, whether you work at a "desk job" answering phones or are coaching for $25 dollars an hour....you won't make a lot of money. But you can excel as a skating coach the same as you can excel in office work. So, you sit at a desk on your butt all day in a high rise. Personally I'd kill myself before I had a job like that, even if it paid. I'd rather be poor and do something I enjoy. If you enjoy the 9-5, great for you. But coaching skating can pay a lot of money too, and the coaches I am taught by and their colleagues all live just as comfortably as it sounds you do, the only difference is that they're helping people for a living. So, I really don't know who you think you are to brag that you "went to school" and "sit in a high rise" all day as it if meant a thing to anybody. Are you up there changing people's lives and shaping their futures? I don't know what you do, but I really doubt it. There's not much you can do for humanity from a tall building.

But with someone who has the attitude that a teacher is a subordinate and not a gift from God, then obviously you wouldn't understand the reward certain people (we refer to them as human beings, I'm not sure what they're called on your planet) get from teaching others. Some are HAPPY to devote their lives to that. And you know what...this may be hard to believe because it also sounds like you look down on people who don't make a lot of money...but *some* people would rather earn a modest living and love what they do, than make a fortune at something they don't love to do. So even if certain coaches "barely scrape by" (which doesn't happen often, because even lower level coaches make good money), maybe they like their job enough to feel happy with what they have. Who are you to judge how they live? Thank God there are people who care enough about others to become teachers. Because your daughter wouldn't excel at anything if those people weren't there to teach her. You think of them as underlings, but in the end, YOU need THEM to enjoy your own lives. You wouldn't enjoy going skiing if someone hadn't taught you. You wouldn't be sitting in your high rise if someone hadn't taught you through school. You're nothing without teachers. And neither are your kids. "If they don't teach my children, they'll starve"? No. If they don't teach your children, your children will be dumb and lack any kind of skills, but they will teach *other* children. The world will run out of teachers before it'll run out of people who need to be taught.

Also as a side note: there are as few chances of getting hurt as a coach as with any other job in the marketplace, really. It's not like you have to demo triple axels. If YOU get hurt, you can't go to work either. That's everybody. And if it's manageable pain, then a coach can go to work as much as anyone else- they can teach from the boards. None of my coaches ever get on the ice anyway.

Anyhow, I've spoken my peace, feel free to come out with some more winning drivel. But I needed to defend this profession because without coaches and teachers, none of us would be anything. You really need to appreciate that, on some level.

I think they were talking about a side job to make some money while going to school, not a career.
And as for your last sentence... oh pleeease, you really think they depend on your money?
I'm sure there's already plenty of eager students (and their paying parents) waiting to fill your spot!

My coach went to college and has a master's degree, but couldn't stand working in an office. So she decided to coach skating instead. She's doing fine, has the same problems any mother of three would have. For a teenager, they can charge a lower rate than a more experienced coach would and for them, it's a great way to make some money to go shopping or to the movies.

I took early retirement after more than thirty years in Information Systems. Now I get to do what I love: teach skating! I don't expect to make much money at it, because I only teach beginners and live where there is not yet convenient year round ice, but my students and parents appreciate me and let it be known. The big smiles on my students' faces are worth a lot more to me than continuing to make big $$$ at a job that enriched big business and bored me to tears.

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AMEN! That's what I hope I can do, too. One of the coaches at my rink has managed to combine her two interests, as well. She's a full-time lawyer and part-time private coach (my inspiration, since I'd like to do both).

I am very grateful to people like you who taught me when I was still learning two foot glides and t-stops. Without the basic foundation of edges and balance learned at the beginning level, I never would've been able to build on that to land singles, doubles, and triples (well, some triples, anyway )

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"Without Vision the People Perish"
שלום לעולם תמיד

Making you a much better skater than I will ever be. Way to go!

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I pretty much keep out of conversations I don't know much about but I couldn't help but respond to "Alicia". I cannot believe someone is so un-appreciative, or perhaps unknowledgeable, about coaches.

Coaches are not a babysitting service, nor are they there to cater to Suzy Star. They are professionals.

(see I'm one of those parents that respect our coaches as equals and professionals in their own right-perhaps thats just the wrong way to go )

Just to get it right:

I don't know. Seasonal work and if your hurt your out of a job. I know people that got cushion jobs in school. 20 years later they're still doing them just scraping by cause now they have a family. Meanwhile, I've gone to school and now work in a highrise building and if they don't teach my children, they starve!!

Romantics seem to end when you rely on your favorite sport for income!!

If you're talking about skating as a "cushion" job, I think you're neglecting the people who actually care enough to make it a career. Even here in Canada, its possible for coaches to make a good living, have a nice house, and surprise-even a family-while earning an income.

My child is a figure skater (singles and ice dance) and she wants nothing more than to become a coach after her competitive years. Even has plans to do the degree at Sheridan for coaching. Her coaches do just fine financially, thank you very much and never for a moment do I feel like we pay them for them not to starve. Nor would I ever demean them by making such a statement.

I'm a self employed lawyer by profession (self-employed by choice-and it works fabulously this way) There are very few people who can actually say they are able to structure their jobs the way they please and take the clients they actually want-rather than who they have to-I am so happy I do it this way-yes, I buy extra insurance--, leaving me time for a life, and time to make sure my daughter has what she needs for following her dreams.

Coaches also have the same ability and are no exception. We should be envious. Sure, they might do group sessions at a club to generate a base income, but what they are really there for is the love of teaching and the desire to impart their skills and knowledge to willing students. At most places anymore, skating is hardly seasonal-assuming you're serious-since the coaches are always game if you are.

I consider my coaches valued professionals, key role models in my child's life, a fosterer of dedication, artistry, musicality, athleticism, morals (yes really), kindness, sportsmanship, fitness, persistence,friendship, volunteerism, and so many other things that are absolutely priceless in the life of a child. I leave them do their jobs at the rink---bottom line, I wouldn't like clients following me around ensuring I'm doing my job correctly.

I don't consider coaching as romanticizing a favorite sport-I consider it a valuable service that teaches my child many things I could never give her in the same way and apprentices her for what she thinks she wants to do for a career. Consequently, she is not only a well rounded skater, but a well rounded person in life.

Do I consider coaching a viable career? . Hey after 8 years of school and incredible tuition fees to enter my profession, I'm game for allowing my child to explore coaching and make 40 per hour (kind of the bare minimum around here) have great tax deductions as a self employed person, be happy in what she does for a living, and lead young impressionable children in the right direction.

And if coach pro has an injury, last time I checked thats what insurance (also tax deductible) for self employed individuals is for.

Hi There,
Congrats to your daughter! Sounds like you have a healthy approach t this skating thing. I agree with you aobu the freestyle and above classes. They were so small at our rink, thye were almost like having provates. My DD stayed in group until FS3 before getting a coach.

About spins, my that is my DDs weakness too. She is a jumper. Her spins are ok, but jumps are much better. Her coach says that is very common to have one as a strength and the other a little weaker. So I put her in a spin class and she is improving a bit. This summer we may get a nother coach to work only on spins...we'll see.

Ans about coaching whe she gets in HS if she's still skating. What a great idea.Coaching as you know isn't "seasonal" it's year round. She could work around her school adn social schedule. Heck,,I wish I could coach skating!
Good luck t you and your DD
Heather

hmm, it seems like you're a little jelous that you're stuck in a stuffy office building all day while coaches get to do what they love all day and teach kids to skate.
skating is definately not seasonal and qualified coaches actully make a nice living. I plan to be a coach when i get in to college, so i can skate instead of serving hamburgers. And if i wnated too, im sure I could tuen it in to a career. coaching is not a cushion job unless you make it that way.

Not to mention that having 'part-time skating coach' on a resume as a teenager will probably carry more weight than 'worked at McDonald's' or 'made coffee in my mom's office' when applying to colleges. We were talking about teenage coaches after all, and it's like any other job: if one has the talent to be an elite coach (which is not the same as being an elite skater), and one works at it, one can succeed in a (believe it or not) year-round field. If not, there's nothing barring our teenage coach from going to college (and teaching skating to pay for books, works loads better than the dining hall dish line. Ten hours coaching skating takes care of books for the semester.) I'm at a university and I totally promise that there's no skating coach restriction for college.

I know a fair amount of unemployed engineers at the moment; there are no guarantees. If you're a sucky engineer, you won't make a lot of cash either.

Also not to mention that coaching doesn't require one to be in condition to land triple Axels, so the injury worries are a bit of a red herring.

I don't know many jobs where you can make a dollar a minute and do what you love. It's not a seasonal job here in Vegas because trust me that $$$ comes out of my pocket year round (LOL).

Take a look at what you make and break it down by the minute and then think about 7 - 10 skaters a day $30 - $40 a student , that cha ching adds up !

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Luckey

Before you do the "dollar a minute" calculation, add in the travel time, no-show students, and other services (such as music, choreography). We net far less than most people realize. For example, one recent weekend I spent 40 minutes getting to the rink for a two-hour session. I had three lessons scheduled. The first student's mom called while I was on the road to say her daughter was sick. The second student went "no show." The third student showed up late and only had 20 minutes to take a lesson. So, I spent over two hours to make $20. Not quite a dollar a minute, is it? Then, I went home an compiled a sample CD of music for a new student who needs a show program. (Some coaches charge for that time, I don't at this point.)

Of course, this thread was talking about high school/college students, which is a different situation.

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Just had to throw in a thank you to the poster who mentioned coaches as role models (& apologies for how off-topic this thread has gotten!).....

I've been coaching part time for about 8 years. I teach group classes (it's good money too!), & I have anywhere from 3-6 private students at a time.

My proudest "achievement" as a coach? My very first student was a painfully shy 12 year old who was in one of my group classes. When she started privates with me, I swear she didn't speak to me for a year! My goal during her lessons was to get her to smile or laugh. Now, she is a very confident 20 year old college sophomore--and decided to major in photography/design because that is what I do and she thought it was a cool career. She calls me from college & tells me about her classes & her life, and "secret stuff" I'm sure she wouldn't tell her mom! I still give her advice & I still give her lessons when she's home on breaks. I'm so proud of her--not only for her skating, but for the woman she's becoming, and I feel I played a small role in that.

Here, coaches are within their rights to charge for no-shows, and, indeed, for missed lessons for any reason (such as illness) with less than 24 hours' notice. And many do, especially if the student isn't known and reliable.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Same here, but I cut a lot of slack for the beginners, especially if they are not yet regulars. I also always excuse illness, particularly when it's a child. I have one student whose younger brother has severe asthma. I know firsthand because he was in my tots class a few years ago. On occasion, the mother will have to cancel her daughter's lesson on the same day because she's been up all night with the brother. There's no way I could ask her to pay me anyway, and she's otherwise very good about advance notice.

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thats true...but i don't know if thats a good thing. If I was seriously sick and my coach made me pay for the lesson ebcause i couldn't come...I'd switch coaches. so in a way coaches can do that...but its risking losing that student. i've never really been in this situation, but I would not find it acceptable to be forced to pay for a lesson when you were in bed sick.