IIRC, Jill Trenary used to do a one-foot axel (take-off and landing on the left foot) into a triple salchow. Would that count the same as a "regular" axel (a paltry 0.8)?

Not that I'll be trying a one-foot axel any time soon. (Although, given my history of problems with converting the jump over to my right side, it *might* be easier...or...not...)

It's a shame that this kind of original combo will probably never be seen on the senior level again (why waste a combo with a single jump when a triple sal-double toe is worth so much more?).

So I guess it's up to us adults to keep it interesting! Any takers for the one-foot axel into single or double sal???

That sounds so odd to me. I mean, if a skater landed a jump on the wrong foot, I would think the judges would mark down the grade of execution. Perhaps there will be some later clarification or change. Every now and then the English is a little odd in the ISU communications, so I wonder if this is something that we are somehow not understanding. Guess we'll find out eventually.

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I have been working on the One Foot Axel/2Sal...I used to do it regularly when competing in roller (its called a Colledge there). The One Foot Axel was given more credit than a regular Axel when executed correctly, and an Inside Axel was the same credit as an Axel.

However, since COP is interested in turning freeskating into a spins only event, I'll probably just drop working on the One Foot Axel/2Sal (as well as the 2Inside Axel) since they will apparently be graded as a mistake instead of a more difficult variation.

Kelton

The one-foot axel is considered an axel jump element, although it is not specifically listed in the ISU Scale of Values. (It is an exception to the rule and counts as fulfilling the requirement of an "axel type jump," as well as a jump element.)

Walley jumps and inside axels, however, are not found in the ISU Scale of Values and are not scroed under the technical mark. In theory, they would count as part of the program components.

And I might add that CoP is not turning into a spin-only event. It is forcing skaters to become more well-rounded and turning competitions from being jump-only events!

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Yes, I'm very well aware. I suppose I should leave the attempts at sarcasm to those better equipped to translate it to the written medium.

No it won't, if you put it down as what you plan to do and it happens! That's the whole point of telling them in advance what you're hoping to do - they know what to look for.

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Okay, Pennybeagle, I nominate you for the one-foot axel! I was talking to an adult skater just yesterday and she told me her coach--who teaches mostly adults--always teaches the one foot axel first because it is less scary and gets the skater used to the rotation in the air. Then he teaches them to land on the right foot instead. So might as well try it!

Yeah, that's the intent, but I think the pendulum is swinging too far towards the spins in an attempt to get it right. Hopefully it'll balance out eventually. I think the problem is that the new system valued the spins up enough to make them closer to the TRIPLE jumps. For an adult competition the problem is that the single jumps are SO much lower than the harder spins that the good jumper (that is even a decent spinner) will still have a huge disadvantage over the better spinners. And they can't catch up and do harder jumps, even if they had them, depending on the level. That's another beef with even the old system -- certain jumps are forbidden but spins are anything goes. It is a double standard. Why isn't a back camel illegal in bronze, for example?

Wouldn't a better rule be something like "The Silver free skate cannot contain any jump or spin worth more than 1.5 pts" (or whatever)

Not that I haven't needed a good kick in the butt to work on my spins.

Tim

PS Hi Steven!

Haha, yes, Tim, but that's why I like the new system: I'm a better spinner than jumper! (And alas, the new system was not originally created for adults or for low-level skaters.)
In most programs, though, only 3 type of spins are allowed. For most adult programs, 5 jump passes are allowed. At the higher level, only one 3-jump pass is allowed, but this is not the case at the adult level (according to what was judged at the ISU adult event). Also, it's not like adults are getting higher than level-2 spins anyway (yet?). Most of the spins were called as level 1 at Obersdorf '05:
http://www.isufs.org/results/adult05/

In a well-balanced silver program, the total points for the jumps (roughly 4) was equal to the points by spins.

A similar theme was seen in the gold programs, but the total points from the jumps (here including a few double jumps) was about a point higher than that received from the spins.

I agree--in general--that if there are jump restrictions, than there should be spin restrictions. Yup, in silver level, one can do a death drop but not a double toe. Go figure.

NJS is even more fun when applying it to low-level pair programs.

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But how about for OUR pairs level???

Thanks for the info on how the points have lined up so far. Not as bad as I thought. But I still think you could conceivably see a silver skater get a level 3 spin one of these days. Not that anyone *I* know will do this, but someone might. LOL And isn't that like more than double the points of an axel, the hardest jump allowed?

It really doesn't make sense to kill yourself trying to get the axel in silver anymore.

Tim

Yeah...right.

The thing is... my axel was in a real good place during the summer, and I got this crazy idea to work on axels out of an outside spread eagle. Bad idea. Very bad. It nearly killed my axel--I was forcing it around instead of properly stepping through, and for a good week or two, I was landing everything on two feet over my left side, and on a couple of occasions, I'm pretty sure I landed it on my left foot only.

But I was too busy being freaked out about losing my axel to notice anything of that sort. Seeing as it took me two months to finally fix it, and it's still not as consistent now as it was over the summer, I'm hesitant to try anything that could possibly screw it up again.

I agree: The axel has lots its iconic status because, points-wise, it's only worth a little more than a lutz. Plus, if you botch it, you'll get negative GOEs. (This jump rationale is part of Tim Goebel's gripe with the system: the quad jumps just aren't worth the risk anymore.)

And interestingly enough, the Oberstdorf announcement places restrictions on double jumps for gold men. ("Double jumps may include only double toe loop, double salchow and/or double loop. No double flip, double lutz, double axel or triple jumps are permitted.")

Also, under CoP, a fall, with a mandatory -1 deduction, is more significant percentage-wise for the lower level skaters.

Still, *I* have never been more excited about spinning. If I can ever reach a level 3 spin in competition (I have one in the works ...), I'd be very content.

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I hear ya! I have been to hell and back with my axel, too, so I understand exactly what you mean. I will never again try to mess with my axel because I think I finally "have it" and can "improve on it" LOL!!

[QUOTE=NoVa Sk8r]
In most programs, though, only 3 type of spins are allowed. For most adult programs, 5 jump passes are allowed. At the higher level, only one 3-jump pass is allowed, but this is not the case at the adult level (according to what was judged at the ISU adult event). [QUOTE]

I have the feeling that if CoP is implemented at AN2007, they will also add restrictions on the number of 3-jump combinations allowed, as well as the number of spins allowed. Senior level skaters are allowed 4 spins and Junior level skaters are only allowed 3, so my guess is we'd only be allowed 3. They may also implement limitations on how many of those spins can be combination spins, since Junior and Senior level skaters are currently required to do one solo (non combination) spin.

I think that the new judging system will keep adults skating longer. I have seen many adult skaters kill themselves trying to learn difficult jumps. They often don't work on the "basics" because of time limitations and the notion that its all about the jumps. Once injured, many of them just give it up. I think this is especially true with the axel. I wonder how many silver/gold folks have tossed in the towel because they thought they weren't competitive without an axel. So now you know what it is really worth and how to work around it if you choose to do so.