It looks like FO BO FO to me too. It's possible that the arc of the curves is so large that it feels flat to you, but is still actually an edge. You are way ahead of me with turn-out. There is no way I could do that move.

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Hmmm so not *all* hope is lost?

I've been stretching the hips for over a year... *sigh* I'm so jealous of everybody at the rink who just... whoop and does it, inside-edged spread eagle, outside edged ones, etc... grr. No fair! *gets back to working on bielman spiral*

So what's this bo-fo-bo move called, anybody know?

I can do an outside spread eagle into an inside spread eagle, in both directions. They look difficult but the more you practice em the easier they become.

There has been a lot of great advice about outside spread eagles so far and I just want to add a couple little things. I have a decent outside spread eagle and very open hips due to ballet training and just genetics I guess, But, I still have to do a lot of work to carry out what I can easily do on the floor to the ice. One thing I do all the time is stretch after warming up/stroking. I just go to the boards and try the spread eagle position, bend my knees a bit, go back to the position, etc. and get my boots happy about being in that position. If I didn't do anything like that at the boards, I'd never be able to hold onto an outside edge. So warm it up a little at the boards, then do some short spread eagles and then try to go into them with some speed and hold the outside edge longer. But the first few attempts, I really feel my lower legs protesting.

Another thing I do is use my forward-going arm as my steering.. So if I'm trying to work on an outside curve, then I try to let my arm guide me and the other hold slightly to the front. I think this helps a lot when I'm just beginning my practice on it. After about 5 attempts at an outside s. eagle, then I can do more complex things with my arms. It's always a little rough though at first and I'd consider myself really turned out.

Another thing I have to mention is that I couldn't even do a good inside or outside spread eagle in my last boots, which were Super teri's. For some reason they wouldn't let my foot flex enough. Now in my current boots, I can flex just fine. That's just one other thing to look at if you're frustrated.

Maybe this can help someone here?

Actually, to answer your question, I'm working on going from outside to inside and holding that. Usually after a big outside arc, my eagle dies... so I'm just trying to extend it to an inside edge and then do a back Xover out of it.

People who find outside mohawks easy probably have open hips and could learn to do outside spread eagles and Ina Bauers.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

I think that if you can at least get your two feet to point 180 degrees on the carpet, with or without knee bend, then there is hope. The carpet gives a bit of grip. The next thing might be to put one foot on the carpet, and keep doing whenever you can, which could help to train the body to get used it, and to get this position more easily. How much conditioning? It's hard to say. Maybe a few days for some. Maybe a year for others. And doing the spread eagle with the feet is not necessarily the same as doing the spread eagle on the ice, with skates on your feet. The additional height and having no carpet or friction/grip to force the feet into the spread eagle position can be tricky for some people. That is, some people might find a spread eagle fairly easy to do with bare feet or shoes on the carpet. But once the skates are on, there is a little bit more to get used to, or to get adjusted to.

I haven't got the best turn out in the hips, so I have depended a bit on ankle turn out, which doesn't hurt me at all, since it's just something that I have.

I began trying it holding on to the boards yesterday, and it's getting there... my feet turn out quicker with practice.

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I can't get 180 degrees, not even on the carpet, after a year of stretching... That is, technically, I can, but then my knees hurt for a week.

Yeah ..... probably better not if the knees hurt for a long time like that. Are you trying with straight leg, or very bent knees? Often, bent knee spread eagle can be achieved by a lot of people even if they can't do a straight leg one.

No, I'm already trying with bent legs. Well if my knees are like at 90 degrees bent, I can do one on the carpet (still not on the ice, not even on rollers).

Your turn out is coming from torque in the knees and that can damage them. To do a spread eagle safely, there should be no knee pain or stress.

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I took an off ice class once, and one of the exercises they taught to get better hip turn out is this: lie on your stomach with your legs straight. Then, bend one leg, bringing that foot to the inside of your other thigh. Your legs should look like a number 4. Then try to push your hip into the floor, but don't push to the point of pain. Make sure to do it with both legs.

I used to do it every day, but I've become a bit lax about it lately.

Oww! It sounds like you do not have open hips and if you don't, then you just don't. A Biellmann will give you higher levels and more points on both spins and spirals, but a spread eagle is worth no points at all, so please don't ruin your knees trying to force it!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Yeah I haven't tried anymore since december I think, I realized after the first two times I did that that I'd bust my already weak knees if I'd continue. I don't try in ballet either, the ballet teacher understands and doesn't whine anymore by now.

Btw, I'm getting that foot over my head now!

Awesome!! I am now doing backbends every day in addition to all of my hamstring and split stretches because I want to at least get my foot higher than my head on a catch foot spiral (even if I can't quite do a "real" Biellmann).

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics