Recently I went to a rink I don't visit very often, but it's closer than my primary facility, so I figure the secondary rink is okay to practice at. This place (the secondary one) caters to hockey moreso than most rinks, or so it seems. It doesn't have Freestyle sessions anymore, although most public sessions are uncrowded so it's not really a problem.

So anyway I went there and encountered a large group of teens on the ice, maybe a few preteens as well (it was hard to tell). I began to skate, keeping to myself in a certain area and trying to concentrate. These kids weren't really even skating - they were more like walking, or TRYING to stay upright on skates, or sitting on/standing against the boards. A few of them were throwing one or two small bouncy balls, along with what appeared to be candy. Once a ball or piece of candy came within five inches of my skates; another time, a BALL BOUNCED AND HIT ME IN THE LEG. It didn't hurt or anything, it's just that they shouldn't be doing that sort of thing.
My mom, who was watching, had told an employee what was going on, and then he asked me who was throwing things. I told him I didn't remember exactly. To me the kids all looked so alike and I'd been more concerned with avoiding the objects than with what the kid looked like. Well, after the ball HIT ME IN THE LEG, my mom went to tell a manager (who apparently was the father of the employee we'd talked to). He came to the ice and told them to get off, but none of the kids would own up to throwing balls/candy.

Around the same time, the manager told my mom "your daughter doesn't own the ice." That ticked off her and I, so she kinda told him off. We were almost appalled he'd said that. Hello, is he dumb? I was at least there to SKATE and wasn't breaking rules, while those teenyboppers were NOT "skating" and were BREAKING rules! It turns out the manager isn't too familiar with ice rules or whatever and seemed surprised my mom knew so much about it. While I continued skating, she told him about the rink we normally visit which actually enforces rules and has monitors. Imagine that! (this guy seemed clueless)

The manager softened and apologized for being harsh to us, but by then I was out of the mood to practice and dread going back there anytime soon. I was very agitated. I felt as if I were the bad person trying to bend rules and manipulate, as if they wanted to label me as the one who was "hogging the ice".
What do you think?

They are completely out of order and almost asking for a lawsuit against them.

You/your mom are entirely reasonable to bring potentially dangerous behaviour to the manager's attention. They should have somebody there watching what's going on and stopping people throwing things on the ice.

IMO you have absolutely nothing to feel bad about.

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The best whisper is a click

Every now and again, people will come to the rink that's close to my house and during public sessions will produce a hockey puck or water bottle or some other random thing and kick it across the ice at each other.

I'm not one to bug management. On rare occasions I'm one to take the foreign object, and throw it out of the rink as far into some dark corner or trash can as I can. Then if they want to complain, they'll be the whiners AND reveal themselves as the rule breakers, whereas I've done neither. Usually they notice or somebody else complains though, and they're told to correct their behaviour via loudspeaker. Other times I just ignore the problem unless it's a serious danger.

I would just not be concerned. People like this show up so rarely anyways that it's almost never a problem. I like not having annoying ice monitors anyways. Remember that rules are not universal, what one rink might not allow might be acceptable at another, but *generally* people have the same ettiquitte everywhere. I wouldn't avoid the rink over it. A regular paying customer has a lot more influence over the management anyways, so it's to your advantage to keep going.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Totally understandable. Those little morons who walk and chat on the ice are spoiled brats. I always make sure I tell off those kids as soon as they get in my way and other skaters. I just do not have the patience for it.
It is extremely dangerous when a skater do not pay attention to their surroundings.

I remember when I was confronted by a mother during a public session for telling off their daughter while skating. I said it is a standard USA rink rule to have no foreign objects or standing around(exeption -when they are at the boards) during any public/freestyle session. It is harmful other to other skaters especially to themselves.

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Tim David's Website

It's public skating. Different rinks enforce different rules. The manager was proably looking at his profit margin first - he makes more money from the group of hellions than from one figure skater.

Throwing things, though, is a safety issue. I used to skate a a rink where it was common practice to allow hockey sticks but not pucks on public sessions. The kids figured out that coins worked as substitute pucks and it wasn't unusual to have quarters freezing to the ice or bouncing off my blades. I complained to the manager, who pretty much shrugged it of with a "kids will be kids" attitude. So I stopped going there.

But then I've pretty much stopped skating on public sessions entirely. Public means just that - they let anyone on and it doesn't matter what goes on. People who really want to skate are wasting their time.

I think your mother needs to find out the name of the person at the top in this rink, and write a polite letter to them. This letter should directly address the safety issues for ALL rink users (not just her daughter!), and particularly cover the use of trained stewards where there are large groups using the public session. The management need to attract a good income, with maximum repeat business, but they are also required to consider health and safety issues.

You also need to consider why this particular public session was unusually busy. Perhaps this was a pre-booked school group. Round where I live, at around this time of the school year, there are often large groups of beginner skaters. The rink gains a good income from them, and if they enjoy themselves, at least a few may end up skating regularly and taking lessons. Rinks need "bums on the ice" to keep afloat financially. It probably takes a ratio of about 100 to 1 of casual visitors to support a serious young skater - without them there IS NO skating! On occasion, when I have been disappointed with an unusually busy public session, I tell myself that the sport needs as many participants as it can get, and I then try to spend a little time helping and encouraging the beginners.

Perhaps you could ring the rink in advance of your next visit, to ask the times of the quietest sessions, and also to enquire if any big groups are booked in for the session you wish to use. Then your journey will be worthwhile, and you will be able to focus on, and enjoy, your skating.

My experience is that the weekday morning public sessions are the least crowded and most enjoyable.

We had an incident last year with a group of 10-12 year old hockey players on public session having their end-of-year party. They were cutting up with hockey moves (against the rules). When we complained to the ice guard (a teenager himself and just as bad), he laughed and said, basically that kids will be kids and there was nothing he could do. We elevated it to their coach who said the same thing. Of course, the adults who were on the ice with the kids were just as bad, sliding on the ice, seeing if they could "take down some people" on the ice!!!!

Of course, this happened while the rink manager was on vacation, over a holiday weekend with no one else in charge. They knocked one little girl down, and almost knocked 4 other people down (myself included). We left after 45 minutes.

So, we complained to the manager when he returned from his vacation. I don't think he really did anything about disciplining the ice guard (which is what we really wanted-that kid is the worst ice guard in the world). He gave us free passes-big deal. He did mention it to the coaches. We suggested that next year, the parties be held on private ice and that the manager should offer private ice at a discount as incentive-then the boys could take each other out and do whatever the hell they wanted.

I also mentioned that this was a lawsuit waiting to happen and he was damned lucky that the mother of the little girl (who was not hurt beyond a sore bottom) did not press charges against anyone! If I was her I would have seriously thought about it! I told the manager that I had never felt in danger of bodily harm at the rink before and was leery about skating at public sessions again! He was apologetic, but the damage was done. I'm a decent skater, I can't imaging how some of the not-so-good skaters felt! We typically avoid the friday night teen-fest because it's filled with teens and hockey boys zinging about.

Last I heard, about 20 people left that day. So, how many would never go back based on that experience? I don't know.

When I'm on public session and I see someone with something that doesn't belong on the ice, I politely let them know that it's not allowed (some sessions have no ice guard). Sometimes they don't know, or don't think. If it's kids, they are just trying to get away with something. If it's kids, and they ask if I'm an ice guard, I just smile and ask if they would like to talk to the rink manager. That usually shuts them up. I try to be really sickly sweet and act really polite (which I'm getting better at). DOH!

I have found that daytime sessions are the best times for adults, as long as there are no school groups. On occasion I have landed at the rink the same time as them but have found most hug the walls and leave the center. Sometimes I've acted prima donna and told them I'm working on moves in the center and if they'd leave that for me I'd appreciate it. Most are very accomodating (aren't I a diva?!).

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

This is true, some rinks do not even allow a figure skater to do a three-turn. They discovered if they permit figure skaters to do anything they want, it would put non-figure /public session - skaters in harm. From flying spins, camels, and jumps have injured patrons throughout the years.

-I was doing a sit spin once and another skater passed through the middle and my blade slashed his calves. He had to have several stitches on his leg.

- My friend did a flying camel at a public session and slashed a kid's neck. This was publicized almost every rink back in the early 90's. Since then slowly but surely management tried to keep a close eye on figure skaters.

- I personally witnessed an wild adult skater was practicing his routine with reckless abandon, when he elbowed an elderly skater on the face. The poor old woman was knocked off unconcious. He claimed that she was not paying attention to her surroundings. I quickly jumped in deffense to the elderly.
After the resurface, the wild skater continued with his routine like nothing ever happened.

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Tim David's Website

We experienced the "different rink/different rules" this past year. One rink we went to (no names) would not allow any jumping or spinning on public session; however, kids could play crack the whip, chase each other, skate in any direction, etc...

My host rink is kinder and lets us do just about anything (or less of anything if it's crowded-no lutz's or axels if it's packed). That's cool with me. Of course, we can't camel spin so that has not been a problem. We go during the week and on Sunday.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I'm with Skate@Delaware on this one. I usually pick up the offending object and let the kid know that things like that on the ice can really be dangerous and they shouldn't be thrown.

Also it's true that a public session is a public session and figure skaters have to be really careful. One of the best skaters in our area, though, LOVES to skate at public sessions. She can skate and do all of her stuff, always watching, always careful, always anticipating where the public session skater is going to be. I've skated with her -- you don't even know she is there, and yet when you look, there she doing, doing the most beautiful spins, camels, hydroblades, whatever... all with the watchful mature eye on the public session skater, who is generally clueless.

My personal rant is about "Hockey lessons" that skate on our (usually quiet) morning public sessions. Big kids and their coaches flying down the ice with the stick hacking this way and that -- yesterday there were two lessons at one time -- arrrgghhh! Made me dizzy and crazy. I'd rather be in the middle of a wild public recreational-skater skate any day!

Management doesn't care. They love hockey.

Who ever heard of private hockey lessons anyway? It's not like these kids are going to the NFL...

I feel your pain. Don't give up. Go back and have a good time. You have a right to be there as much as anyone else.

icedancer, who tries to do figures in public sessions.

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Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

There's a few kids at my rink who have what appears to be private hockey lessons. It appears that the coach is generally focusing on puck skills as well as skating skills.

Last winter (and probably again this season) we had to split the rink with one or 2 of these guys a couple days a week for the first 2 FS sessions each morning. They would get half the ice and the FS/dancers would get half the ice.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

One of my son's hockey teammates takes private lessons, but with a figureskating coach on freestyle ice. From his mom's description they sound like low level moves with emphasis on speed and power. Definitely no stick or puck! I can't even imagine that being allowed. That's just crazy. But we have open hockey sessions in our area for that sort of lesson.

Well, most figure skaters aren't going to National's either...

We have a coach that used to live here that moved. When she comes back to visit,, she does give hockey players private lessons, in speed, power ect. She does use the fs ice, but they pay for it and its not with a puck or stick.Just moves like anyone else.

This is totally me! Well except for the "best" part, that doesn't fit. But I do spins, hydroblades, shoot-the-ducks, backward spirals, jump combinations, whatever. I found that trying to be super-careful doesn't help - you can be spinning in the same spot in the center of the rink with nobody around, and suddenly a group of 4 little kids will suddenly be 2 inches from you screaming from time to time (don't ask me how they are so oblivious). Better to just be aware of how to avoid hitting them, and skate with what appears to most to be reckless abandon, except for the fact that you never hit anyone.

I skate fast and without restraint during crowded public sessions, but keep an eye on the flow of people. There's always a 3-turn or spread eagle that will prevent a collision or help squeeze through a surprise tight spot without incident. Rink management couldn't care in the slightest. They make plenty of money off me and know me by name even though I never told them (they must have learned it off my debit card!). The only time I ever hit anybody during the last 4-5 months was during a very uncrowded daytime session, with only about 5 people on the ice. Because of this, I wasn't paying as much attention to my surroundings as I should have been, and apparently neither was the lady who skated right into my backward shoot-the-duck. Ahh well, no harm done, live and learn.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

They might be annoying, but there's a reason you're paying 5 bucks and not 12- it's PUBLIC. Anyone who has ice skates on is allowed to be there. Most of the people who go to public skating don't KNOW how to skate. It's frustrating for them. It's a social hour. They're allowed to stand around all they want. If you want to practice figure skating, then buy a damn freestyle session. Reading your post below...you slashed someone's LEG while doing a sit spin?! It was your responsibility to abort the spin for an out of control skater coming through. It's public skating, the public has right of way, not the freestylers. Freestyle rules only apply on freestyles. Which is why I'd never go on a public. But if I did, and couldn't do anything on it, I sure wouldn't complain, wouldn't injure anyone because I think I have a right to be spinning and if they can't stop in time before I slash their leg- too bad, and I also wouldn't tell someone off just because they're in "my way". If they're in your way, then you're in theirs too, you know. Perhaps you should just go around them since you're the better skater.

Gosh, this type of attitude really pisses me off.

I understand where you're coming from but I sure wish the rink guards had said something to their hockey skate clad buddies who were racing up the rink and knocked me down onto my knees without warning years ago when I was just learning to skate (somewhere around ISI Beta).

I had enough bruising on the inside of my left knee that the bruise went from about 3 inches below the knee up to a couple inches above. Knee was swollen so much I could hardly bend it, which made driving a stick-shift car very difficult for about a week.

What I've often seen at public sessions in my neck of the woods is that there's 2 sets of standards applied at the same time. The "no figure skating" or "limited figure skating" standard (which I can understand within reason) and the "kids on hockey skates can do whatever they want, where they want, when they want, since they're my buddies" standard. And the rinks don't seem to care about equal enforcement and apparently no one has pushed the issue of where's the line on "skate at your own risk".

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

It was back when I was just learning how to skate - 1997.
My sense of direction was off at that time. I do feel sorry for the kid. I have not had a collision since then.

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Tim David's Website

The middle section of the rink had cones. It was 45 minutes into the session. 4 skate guards had witnessed it, and the fault was not mine. I was in my area, he wasn't. The coned off area was for beginner freestylers.

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Tim David's Website

Today, on the 6:20AM sesesion, a parent reprimanded my pairs partner and me for skating on the freestyle session. We were "getting in everyone's way." And by "everyone," I believe she meant her less-than-talented son; he just wasn't landing his jumps, so naturally it was *our* fault. Um, he *never* lands his jumps.
We pay the same amount for the ice, and we have to practice just as much as everyone else. Then she suggested that we skate our program during the moves session.

I had a calm and rational discussion with her in which, among other things, she told me I was too big to be skating on a freestyle session with kids. Huh? (I guess 6 feet and 180 lb is just *too much* to be around any of the kids lest we collide--but that's never happened).

I was so angry I was ready to stand on my head and spit nickels!
Loops avoided the mother altogether, and I'm glad she did.

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

How on earth did you restrain yourself??? I'd be in jail for assault & battery right now if it was me! You have remarkable self-control. The nerve of that woman! You tell Skaternum who it is, and I'll put out a contract on her!

Seriously, it's amazing to me that someone thinks that way, much less says it to your face.

Let me quote some of what the parent said:
"Can't you just pick a spot and work there?"
My response: we're working on parts of our program choreography, so no, not really.

"The kids are all falling during their programs because they're scared you're going to hit them."
The response in my head which I did not say out loud: No, they're falling because they're trying to do jumps they can't land.

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Where are those knives when I need them?
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I need a detachable left foot!

I'm not sure what my reaction would've been if a skating mom told me that I'm too big to be on the same freestyle session with the kids. How many people were on the ice at the 6:30am session?

When I was skating freestyle sessions, I had to worry more about the kids colliding into me then me into them.

I would have been very blunt with the mother and the son

What was the son's level? Pre-Preliminary? In that case, they are not use to different levels of freestylers.

I use to skate with 3 ice dance couples, 4 pairs couples and 3 other freestyle skaters who are in the senior/national level, and we still get things done.

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Tim David's Website

I'm sorry- I was really cranky when I wrote my reply.

I understand what you are saying about the cones, too. In an ideal world, people would respect them- but I've had to skate public on a couple occasions where my rink was closed down...and it's just common knowledge that cones or no cones, little kids who can't stop will go through the middle anyways. Rink guards are about as useful as cones themselves, I've found. Heh.

The amazing thing was, the hockey skater was 15 years old and have been skating longer than me.

The kid was playing tag with his friends, so that's why he had to cut off the center.

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Tim David's Website