I signed up for private lessons with my current group coach - anyone who can convince me that yes, I AM capable of performing a forward scratch into a back scratch (then sticking around to watch as I proceed to actually DO one, cheering me on) might just be the coach for me. Not that there was anything wrong with my old coach - on the contrary when my old rink reopens and I'm able to skate there again I'd love to continue my lessons with him - but for the time being Beth will suffice.

I told Beth that I wanted to start testing USFSA and she was extremely enthusiastic about getting me started immediately. I have my first lesson with her tomorrow and I'm pretty excited and nervous all at the same time - I know I can do the Pre-Bronze moves, but this is going to be about refining and making things start to look good - or at least I hope! I originally was thinking about testing on the standard track but then I figured what's the point? If I get to the point where I pass Adult Gold Freestyle and I want to go to Intermediate on the Standard track then I'll worry about it then. It's a pretty long ways away anyway, right?

This is pretty much where I am with Tim. Almost exactly. I'm apparently Delta/Pre-Bronze, whatever the heck that means (I actually still don't really know how one gets a level label, maybe someone can explain it to me). Tim's setting up the testing for the pre-prelims and helping me get through the USFSA and my local club's membership paperwork.

Kevin, the only way to get the level label "pre-bronze" is to pass the pre-bronze test. Maybe he's saying your skills are at that level. But until you take and pass the test, you aren't labeled "pre-bronze." Just curious, why are you taking pre-preliminary instead of pre-bronze. You're at least 21, right? (Or am I remembering wrong?)

Just putting in my word in support of adult skaters taking standard track moves. Now that there are crossover points, if you're capable of it (& many are! Especially you younger adults), I highly recommend it. It's more difficult, but more thorough, in training all your edges, turns, spirals, etc.

Even if you go through adult gold & then switch to standard track at Intermediate, there are still things you've missed along the way. Personally I wish they'd do moves the way they do dance--same elements, but lower passing standard.

My 2 cents. If your coach thinks you can do it--go for it!! It will only make you a better skater in the end.

I dunno. I'm just repeating, and I admit I may be repeating incorrectly. I'm 22, yes, but I went back and checked the email, and he definitely said pre-preliminary. I think at this point I've simply learned not to question Tim. I'm paying him to make judgement calls, so I'll let him make judgement calls.

I agree with phoenix. I tested standard track Moves before there were adult Moves, and got through Pre-Juv. I've failed Juv about 4 times, I think! I've actually never taken an Adult Moves test, because I was already tested to Silver when they were implemented. I'm working on Gold Moves now, but I swear after I pass it I want to go back and take another shot at that blasted Juv test just to say I can do it! It bugs me that because of the way the adult tests pick and choose the moves, there will be patterns I won't ever officially pass unless I go back for that test.

To be considered a "Pre-Bronze" or "Pre-Preliminary" skater you must take and pass the USFS Pre-Bronze (for adults 21 and over) or USFS Pre-Preliminary Moves in the Field and Freestyle tests.

Before you can take either the Adult Pre-Bronze or Pre-Preliminary freestyle test, you must take and pass the corresponding Moves in the Field (MIF) test.

Be aware that while both tests are pass/retry, the USFS passing standards for the skills in either of these tests is generally considered to be of a higher level than what is expected in most ISI programs.

Prior to registering to take any USFS test, you must be a member of the USFS. You can join by either joining a USFS-affiliated skating club (there may be one based at your rink or at another facility in or near the city in which you skate), or join as an individual member.

If you choose to join as an individual member, you will still have to test at a test session sponsored by a USFS club... and most clubs charge an extra ice fee for non-members (including individual members).

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Then I can only assume Tim means he feels I'm at that level and I could pass, as another poster suggested.

That, I am aware of.

Aware of this as well.

Tim and I are taking care of this. My club (or what will be my club when my paperwork is done and accepted) is a USFSA club.

Good. There's a lot of folks who don't educate themselves as to things like this, and rely solely on what they gleam from online fora.

Many club test applications require the coach to sign the form, implying the coach believes the skater is ready to test. Of course, it seems that every test session or so, there is at least one skater out there who is totally unprepared for what they are testing, and we wonder what the coach was thinking when they signed the form.

--jsl

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

I read Kristi Yamaguchi's "Skating for Dummies" this summer, and I've also mulled over the USFSA and SFSC (my club) websites.

I would recommend doing both pre-preliminary and adult pre-bronze, if the test fees are not an issue for you. The freeskate components (which can only be done if you've passed the MIF parts) are nearly the same in pre-prelim and adult pre-bronze. By testing in the adult series and getting to the bronze level or higher, you can start to compete at adult nationals (assuming you want to do this) sooner than if you try to go the standard route.

I just called Tim for clarification. From what I understand I will be doing both, and he certainly feels that I can compete at Adult Nationals next year, and actually thought he might be able to prep me for it this year, but the deadline is today (I balked, my goal was to get to Adult Nationals in FIVE YEARS, and I considered that reasonable). I "knew" I was progressing fast, but I guess I didn't quite realize how fast. This is only month eight of my official "I'm going to be a figure skater" training. This is definitely my Lift (or whatever it is this time) of the week. Talk about an ego boost.

Good, because you can't compete in an adult event unless you've passed the appropriate adult test. (Unless, of course, it's a no-test adult event, for which you would've been inelegible after passing pre-preliminary).


I thought your goal was specifically to compete in the Championship Gold event. This sounds like your goal is just to get there at all. Do you mean compete in the championship event next year in Chicago? That would be awesome!

Also, with regards to your comment about paying him to make judgement calls and not questioning him. It bothers me a bit. I truly hope you're not going to be one of those skaters who just does whatever the coach says without questioning it. Good coaches keep up with what's going on in the adult skating world, but one of the best things about being an adult skater is possessing the age and wisdom to make your own decisions. We may not come into this sport knowing everything there is to know about it, but we certainly possess the mental capacity and assertiveness to find out and make our own good decisions. I'll get the rulebook; I'll read the governing body's reference material; I'll talk to coaches and skaters; I'll attend test sessions to see what goes on. In short, I want to take responsibility for my own skating. Maybe you don't -- not everyone is as independent-minded as me. But I'd hate to see you fall into the ol' "do whatever the coach says" mindset. To me, that's what separates the kids from the adults.

Well as far as I am concerned I guess I'll speak with my coach at my lesson today to see if I should just go for the Standard track - I'm going to be 25 next month so I'm not a spring chicken, but I've got a couple of years to go before I'll actually consider myself an "adult".

My new coach told me in group the other day that I have the energy and enthusiasm of a 10 year old...will that get me extra points on my tests?

Before I tested, my coach wanted me to actually attend a test session and see what they did (how a session was run, etc). I did as she suggested and was very surprised!! It was a real eye-opener for sure and actually motivated me to prepare even more (I have some weak elements that weren't ready). At least I know what to expect.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Definitely a good idea.

There is a big difference in expectations between USFS and ISI. And there is a big difference in USFS standard track between test expectations (freestyle) and competition expectations.

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American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Right, right. You are correct. Tim knows that too. You can see why I am surprised.

I think I need to clarify. I always ask for clarification (like with this thread, as soon as I was aware I was confused, I gave him a call). I always ask to be given explanations. One of the reasons I had Tim recommended to me by the skating director of my home rink is because I wanted someone to understand that I am an adult, that I am paying for this sport myself, and that I want to be involved in the decision making process. That this is an investment, and Tim needs to serve not just as a mentor and coach, but also as a type of "broker" making sure my investment pays off.

HOWEVER, I am paying him to make sure that investment does pay off. He is the expert not me. I realize I won't always understand his reasoning for the decisions he makes, no matter how many times I ask for an explanation. A lot of that will simply have to come from spending time in the figure skating world. Experience I don't yet have. There's a great deal of trust that has to be given because battles need to be chosen wisely, and I am not in a position to recognize small battles from big battles. If my investment doesn't pay off, or if I find through my increasing experience that Tim has failed me in some major way, I'll do what I'd do with any investment broker. I'll fire him.

In most countries, that's the only choice you have - you do the standard tests, or not at all. As I understand it, Kevin's coach is British, so he probably holds his adult students to similar standards as the kids at the same level, as all British coaches have to do!

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

This is true. Tim is a British Ice Teachers Association Advanced Senior Rated Coach. He is a Gold Medalist in Freestyle and A British Skating Association, Silver Dance Medalist. Tim is a former British professional championship medalist. Tim has taught for 20 years in freestyle, pairs and ice dancing. Coaching skaters from the beginner level thru national championship levels. He is also an English Ice hockey Association level 2 coach. Tim is a current member of the Stars FSCT, ISI, PSA, BITA, BSA and EIHA (taken from the rink website).

And if I recall correctly, I'm not just one of his adult skaters, I am his only adult skater at present.

If you don't mind my suggesting, I'd recommend you either attend AN this year if you can, or order the tapes to see what the skaters at your intended level are looking like / what elements they're including. I'm doing that myself (ordering the tapes). That way, as you work this year, you'll have a clear cut vision of what the competition is doing & can plan accordingly--remember there's usually a big discrepancy between test requirements & competition programs.

All that's required for testing gold is an axel & lutz & a combo spin, along with lesser jumps (I say "all" ), but I don't know what the championship gold men are doing in competition--I'm betting doubles? It'd be good to know.

Also keep in mind that if Tim is encouraging you to shoot for AN '07, but you're not to gold level by then, he hasn't failed you. IMO, that is close to unrealistic for what can be done in a year, & I'm rather surprised he'd toss that out, based on what you're working on right now. Of course, I haven't seen you skate & he has, but I'm just wondering if he's really thinking that level for your first trip.

There's also developing ease, flow, poise, carriage, etc. on the ice, which takes a lot of "mileage" in skates, as we say. You may very well be a natural (I was too), but you still have to pay your dues in time before you start to look really comfortable out there. Which matters in a competition.

Don't mean to put you off, just a word of hesitation to see if Tim really meant what you think he meant....... I have some talented students myself, but I'd never dream of 'promising' them a certain level by a certain time--too many variables. You have yet to see how you skate under pressure, for one.

So errrrm....getting back to my thread....


Today was the first lesson with Beth. We spent about 5-10 minutes discussing the pros and cons of testing on the Adult track versus the Standard track, biggest differences being that the Adult track is “faster” and doesn’t cover a lot of elements that the Standard track does. Beth said that she would speak with some judges and other adult skaters to see which would be better for me, but truthfully I’m leaning more towards the Standard track. I’m not looking to compete any time soon, if ever (too scarred from the first competition!) and I don’t want to sell myself short by not covering as many elements as possible. And of course Beth said that if I change my mind I have up until Novice on the Standard track to switch over to Adult if I decide I want to compete. Fair enough, but we’ll make an official decision in a couple of weeks.

Beth figured that we might as well cover all of the elements in the Pre-preliminary test, beginning with basic forward perimeter stroking. I posted specific notes in my journal if anyone wants to read lol - www.philosotree.com

Then we worked on waltz jumps a little bit since we had maybe 5 or 10 minutes left. She was really trying to get me to focus on stepping UP, then turning instead of letting the right hip swing away first throwing me off that edge. So I did a couple and then she stops me dead in my tracks.

Her: I don’t like that crease in your boot, let me see
Me: Um, okay
Her: How long have you had these?
Me: Since June of last year?
Her: Are these the Freestyle?
Me: No, Competitors…is there something wrong with them?
Her, making a face: I love Jacksons but these look broken down to me.
Me: What??!??! I was told that these would last me a couple of years which is why I got them.
Her: Well, you’re a heavy skater - not to say you’re fat because you’re not, but you skate very aggressively and you land hard…you’re just hard on your boots. I’m the same way, I usually need triple reinforcers in my customs.
Me: So umm…these are no good?
Her: Oh no they’re okay for now but considering what you’re working on you’d be much better suited to upgrade to a stronger boot.
Me: Will the blades transfer?
Her: Most likely
Me: Oooookay well…I originally wanted MUCH stronger skates and I was told they weren’t for me and that these would last but…whatever - I’d rather spend the money and not have a broken leg.
Her: I have a ton of skates, including a pair of GAM’s that haven’t even been mounted — we’ll find something for you. I have the GAM’s in my car - take them home and see if they fit and we’ll talk again on Saturday.

That was pretty much the end of that conversation - I’m really hoping the GAM’s work because they’re $400 boots that she’s willing to part with for $150 and then she said she’d sell my skates to a beginning level skater so I’m not out a ton of money. I just hope the blades transfer because if they don’t I’ll be royally peeved. I can always sell those too, but sheesh - what drama.

I’m very pleased with Beth as a coach - she’s like a little tiny moves-in-the-field-nazi. She explained that her coach was VERY old school, and that she tested figures and such so she has it ingrained in her to look for good edge quality and all of the little things that make a skater look like a skater which is exactly what I need. Like, I can do everything she asked me to do but instead of saying “yeah that looks okay - you could pass with that” she’s REALLY working me to pass with flying colors. I loved working with my old coach because he was fun and he pushed me to do new things all the time, but after seeing the video the other day I decided that it was more important for me to refine what I know rather than plow through elements just to say I can do them. I think someone on one of my skating boards summed it up well by saying “It’s not how many tricks you can do, but how many of those tricks you can do well“.

The bonus is that I have Beth as a group coach on Saturdays too so I get double duty from her. I’m super excited about skating all over again.

I'm not sure I understand this statement. If you pass any higher than Juvenile FS, you're not allowed to compete in the Adult events. You must compete in the Masters events.

Okay, that makes me feel better. Taking your earlier statements at face value made me a little .

Are you also his first adult skater?

Well, in the current (as of Sept 1) adult moves structure, the only moves missed in the adult track that are on the standard track are the alt 3's (Prelim), the outside-inside spirals (Prelim), and the back power 3's (Juv). Since I tested Pre-Bronze MIF before the changes, I passed the alt 3's but will miss the waltz 8 (Pre-Prelim).

I thought about testing Pre-Prelim and Prelim MIF (and possibly Pre-Juv MIF) after passing Bronze (whenever that happens), but I realized that I wasn't missing that many moves and since the point of working on MIF is to learn skills that will improve your freestyle skating, I decided that it would be more a more productive use of my skating lesson (and testing) budget to start on Silver MIF rather than repeat moves I've already passed just to learn a couple that I probably won't be any the worse for having not tested. For example, the waltz 8 builds skills for the alt 3's, power 3's, and 5-step - and since I would have already passed those moves, there's not much point, IMO, to go back and learn the "building blocks" to them.

Some people test both tracks, though, and there is also the possibility (now with the rule change) to cross over and take the adult FS tests by passing a standard track MIF test and not just the adult one. Be mindful, though, that you will end up needing to pass moves that are a higher level than the ones on the corresponding adult MIF test. For example, to take Pre-Bronze FS, you will need to pass both Pre-Prelim and Prelim MIF (b/c the crossover figure 8's on Pre-Bronze MIF are on Prelim), but you'll end up needing to master the alt 3's, power 3's, and other moves that are harder than anything on the Pre-Bronze test. To take Bronze FS, you'll need to pass Pre-Juv MIF, which means mastering the forward to back 3-turns and power pulls, which you wouldn't need to pass until Silver.

But since you're young and sound pretty fearless, testing the standard track and then crossing over for FS testing might be OK for you. Good luck with whatever you decide.