I'll throw in my 2 cents. I have major issues, mentally, with MITF tests. I love to compete. I test standard track MITF, not adult. It took me awhile to get past Juv MITF to get to move up to Silver.

Jumps are restricted in certain levels. Under IJS they have an exact point value. By restricting the jumps (even in standard track kids competitions) it evens out the playing field so someone cannot stay at a lower level doing jumps that earn more points base value. It encourages people to test up. Even under 6.0, though there is not an exact value, the mindset is still there of an axel being worth more than a flip, etc.

Moves in the field, however, never have an exact value. Rather, these are taken into consideration as a whole under 6.0 and assigned a level under IJS. There is a value to each of those things, but it's not like a choctaw gets x number of points versus a 3 turn getting z. It's an advantage to have higher MITF, no question, because you can do more types of turns. But because there isn't an exact value I don't see it as being a double standard between restricting jumps and not restricting MITF. A person with great speed and flow, doing different types of 3turns and brackets is going to kill someone like me, where at the last ANs I went to I tried choctaws, brackets, rockers, etc. that weren't of high quality. Mainly I tried to challenge myself and it didn't work. I accept that. Someone that had Junior MITF had beautiful footwork and deserved to beat me hands down.

Should she be restricted from doing the exact same turns as me just because she's tested and I haven't, especially since there is no point value associated with them? No. Even if she was doing 3turns she would have kicked my butt because she's a gorgeous skater. Should a person with a 2flip be prevented from doing that in a group that does axels half the time? Absolutely because the 2flip is worth (in actual point value) way more than the axel.

__________________
"Without a struggle, there can be no progress" ~ Frederick Douglass

Just promised doubletoe not to comment on MITF threads but....

That is my point. The jumps do get higher points. So someone with exceptionally strong jumps could use them to garner points against the type of skater you are describing. See what I mean? (Under the current system, a skater cannot use a 2flip-2toe-2loop combo and 2flips and 2lutzes (or even higher level jumps) to counter the weight given to the skater with glorious edges but low level jumps. But this seems to be the way the adult skaters want it....

Can't comment on these (MITF) posts anymore. Annoying the posters. Going to move on to freestyle elements etc.

Think of how much time in a program is devoted to jumping versus connecting moves, spiral and step sequences, etc. It's a very small fraction. Even if you can jump, no one is going to care or going to want to watch you skate a program if the rest of the stuff you're doing sucks. If you can't skate and therefore can't perform and entertain, the audience and judges will get bored and won't give a crap that you attempted a lousy, cheated 2axel with a bad, unasthetically pleasing leg wrap (unless people in the audience are taking bets as to whether or not you'll fall and how badly you'll hurt yourself).

And if you're a lousy skater trying jumps that are too advanced, you're just going to end up hurting yourself (be our guest, don't let us say we told you so). There is a roller skater here at my rink who also figure skates. I've seen her do double toes, double sals and double loops on rollers but on the ice her actual skating is not that strong and I don't even think she has a properly executed single lutz because she can't maintan the edge and knee bend going into the jump with speed, and she's just starting to work on axels. I'm sure that if she wanted to, she could translate her roller skating jumps to ice and probably try a 2toe, 2loop or 2sal but her coaches and mother will not let her until her actual skating ability improves. There is a reason for that.

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Missed the rest of it!! Well PooH!!



Hey doubletoe, you get a 2 loop by the time I pass my Sr Moves!! Hmm Hmmm??

__________________
Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

Will she have to change her screen name to doubleloop?

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

maybe doubletoe-doubleloop?

__________________
Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

At this point of the conversation I can concentrate on nothing but the fact that Pandora doesn't use pronouns. I think it's time I bowed out...

Sorry, I'm afraid of pronouns. Especailly since the "collective you" incident on the other board. However... if you like pronouns, then I will use them.

Ha ha thanks, I wasn't going to be the one to say it. (I'm surprised I even comment in her threads, the snob in me tends to ignore people who fail to use proper grammar, acceptable typos and occasional abbreviations aside.)

__________________
2010-2011 goals:
Pass Junior MIF test
Don't break anything

Hey, doubletoe!!! Does that "poor jumper" have to have a certain level moves? I'm a "poor jumper!" (Then again, I'm a poor everything else too!!! )

Edited to add: Can't help but chuckle at the Thread title. I think "Jack Handy" of SNL when I see "Deep Thoughts."

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

What other board?

__________________
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Don't know if I can name it on here. (Am I allowed?) Anyways, I got into trouble with collective you vs personal you. The skater thought I might be singling her out specifically when I really ment it generally. I'm not big on pronouns....but since you (plural, collective) seem to like them, I'll use them from now on.

OMG!!
WE like pronouns and field moves!!

I am using the spare bold, and emoticons!!

__________________
Who me? Couldn't be....
http://www.youtube.com/bouldersk8r

OMG, we actually have something in common! I, too, like the emoticons. There may be hope for us yet.

Can I just add thank you (personal). Proper sentence formation makes reading these boards so much easier. But I always give a pass if I know the speaker is not a native English speaker. If you are not, then my apologies for judging.

__________________
-Jessi
What I need is a montage...
Visit my skating journal or my Youtube videos (updated with 2 new videos Sept 26, 2009)

English is my first and (unfortunately) only language. I don't use pronouns because it is easier and quicker for me to write that way. Most of the kids who I know don't bother writing or texting with them since they take up time and are usually unnecessary. The sentence context will usually denote the subject anyways. However, since I am entirely capable of writing with them (and even diagraming sentences) thanks to the nuns at my Cathloic grammar school, I will use them on this board at least on the ON ICE section, (or unless I know for certain I am speaking to a teen.)

Even if you are speaking to a teen, proper grammar and language is always appreciated. It makes reading posts much easier and tends to lend more credibility to a discussion. I've seen so many kids with horrid writing and grammar. That "txtspeak" you mentioned really is doing kids no favors in learning how to write and communicate.

__________________
"Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?"

Pandora,

I have a question for you. My understanding of roller artistic skating is that they still require figures which is what ice skating had before MITF. So, doesn't that translate to ice skating and provide you with a basis for starting MITF?

I have been in a car all day, so I am coming to this discussion late, but earlier, you asked why if people don't like moves, why we still do them.

For me, I know that I will never (unless I get very, very lucky) land a double lutz or be able to pass my Senior Freestyle test. My goal right now (unbeknownst to Coach ) is to end up with my Novice Free before my body hates me so much that I can't jump any more.

Moves, on the other hand, while they are not my favorite things to do, provide me with a goal to work towards in a very measurable way. Coach and I joke about how I "hate" just about every move. But, I can see how the skills I learn through my MITF strengthen my overall skating (including my spins and my jumps). I am currently working on Junior Moves. One of the moves, which has been one of my many banes of existence are the power pulls (http://www.denverfsc.org/moves/jun4.html) this move has helped me to develop both an increased comfort doing turns at a higher rate of speed, but also increased core strength (as it relates to skating - yes, I could do exercises for that too, but the muscles wouldn't develop in the same way). This core strength makes the landings of my jumps easier to control and my spins quicker and more centered.

I can see an end with the Moves. My goal is to pass Senior before they change the moves (re-testing Junior in January and we'll see what the timeline looks like then). I then told Coach (who has been harping on this since I started with her and won't let me forget the promise I made) that once we finish moves, that we can start dance. Again, this is a goal for me because I KNOW I will be able to achieve a Gold medal.

To me that Gold medal (as well as any other test) signifies a mastery of skills judged against a minimum standard by an objective observer.

These are just my thoughts. People work hard at what their goals are. If moves is not your goal, then work on freestyle, but know that OVERALL skating wins any day of the week in my book.

__________________
Skating Dreams

"All your life you are told the things you cannot do. All your life they will say you're not good enough or strong enough or talented enough; they will say you're the wrong height or the wrong weight or the wrong type to play this or be this or achieve this. THEY WILL TELL YOU NO, a thousand times no, until all the no's become meaningless. All your life they will tell you no, quite firmly and very quickly. AND YOU WILL TELL THEM YES." --Nike

Roller does have school figures and a lot of people still do them, but they are not required to compete at freestyle. I think they were required years ago, but that requirement got dropped before I started competing in the mid-1980s).The few artistic skaters left in the US are getting older and most compete at dance and figures now since they can no longer do the freestyle elements. The few younger skaters who still skate on roller generally no longer do freestyle. It is rare to find a young roller freestylist in the US who can do more than single jumps. Most young roller skaters who can land an axel go onto ice (like Tara) because that is where the opportunities are. In other countries it is a little different because ice rinks are so rare and so expensive. I think that is one reason why roller is so popular in Asia and South America. It is also popular in Italy and Australlia. I do think they (the roller skating federation) want to bring in an ISI style testing system (with footwork requirement within the freesyle test), but since I didn't compete did not keep up with this. I don't think it is stongly enforced since roller has so few competitors they don't want to alilenate any of them.

If you check out this promo, you can see some of the skaters doing figures. (Wish I could find this film. If anyone knows where to order it, please let me know.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SayJ4Mfb5yQ

More roller figures. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4b-kLsBXn0

We tried that argument, but Pandora ignores the logic and continues with the same argument repeatedly. Ad finitum. I gave a specific amt of non-air time for a Senior program.

Thank you, thank you!

Pandora - please leave battles on other boards over there, don't bring them over here.
You don't need to name the "other board(s)" since many of their members (and I think the board owner) are here.

__________________

Then you need to pursue the ISI skating league, which many people have suggested to you, including myself. The ISI limits jumps, spins, and footwork based on test level, including required maneuvers to be done by all competitors in an event. There are some "Uncaptured elements" that can be used in a program at any level. It's a level playing field that will penalize anyone who does ANYTHING from a higher level.

You're really not serious about skating in the USFSA league anyway. Have your fun on the ice, not on this board.
If you were serious, you'd be taking skating lessons.

__________________

Well....
Actually I do post on youtube. (Referenced link several times on this site already.)

Not bothering with lessons. Took enough lessons. Too expensive.

And...
Not ignoring you. Just not responding to same issue since everyone says the horse is dead. Promised another poster to stop arguing it.

And....
Maybe talking to the wrong people. Found a few young skaters (teens) who are....um.....supportive.....Wonder how many of the people on this thread are adult skaters (willing to bet most). This could be the real problem. Maybe I am just walking in the wrong forest. Need to find other trees.

Okay, we're done here. Have a good walk. Mind the low branches.

__________________