Any suggestions on what can be done off and/or on-ice to get lower on a sit spin? DS is having a bit of a problem getting right down, and is getting slammed on the points as a result. He's ALMOST there ... but it's those last crucial fractions ...

I'm sure your son's coach has told him this, but on ice have him focus on not only bending his skating knee (the one he's spinning on) but his skating ankle as well. That should help get him lower.

As for his inability to go lower, have him to this off-ice drill. I have all my students do it and have seen a great improvement. Have him start standing on one foot (the one he spins on during his sit spin) and then have him lower himself without using his arms, other foot, etc. for assistance. He then should balance in a low sit position (not resting his butt on the back of his heels, but instead using his thigh muscles to maintain a low sit position) and rise up slowly using on his skating leg (the one he's balancing on) to help him rise to the start position. He should do several of these, and over time he'll build up more leg strength needed to achieve that perfect sit position. This same exercise can be done on ice: I have my skaters do a spiral-shoot-the-duck-spiral over and over down the ice without using anything other than their skating leg thigh muscles to help.

Also have himself push himself to go just a tad bit lower with each spin. In addition to the above exercise, he'll be getting more points for his sit in no time!

i wear an ankle weight on my free leg and just hold the position off ice. it's helped me tons

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Have him do backward shoot-the ducks on the spinning foot, trying to keep the weight on the ball of the blade (having the first toepick scrape is absolutely fine). When lowering himself into the sit position (on both the shoot-the-duck and the sitspin), once his free leg turns out and comes into place against the skating leg, he should lower his butt and push his free leg forward until he can feel the calf of the spinning leg pressing against the inside of the thigh of the free leg. When he feels that, it means the skating thigh is parallel to the ice and he's low enough. It also means his weight is on the ball of the blade so he won't fall backward.
When I was first doing the sitspin, mine wasn't low enough either, but it wasn't for lack of strength, it was because I didn't know *how* to get lower. When my new coach told me to feel for my skating calf against inside of free leg thigh as I lowered into position, that told me how to get there and I fixed it in 5 minutes.

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What helps me is working on it off-ice and also if you do squats.

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Right. The exercise that SynchroSk8r114 suggested is basically a one-legged squat. It helps more than anything else. Another tip: have him do them throughout the day also. It will help.

Doubletoe: where do you "reach" when you do your sitspins???? at what level are your arms? Shoulder, waist, etc...???

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

That's true, practicing the position off ice in front of a mirror can really help. Make sure he wears a shoe with about a 2" heel on it so that he's balanced on the ball of the foot. I'm not suggesting that just because it's easier (which it is) but mainly because it simulates the actual position of the spinning foot during the sitspin. Our skates have heels and we also lift the heel off the ice during the sitspin, bringing the skating heel up even more off the ice so we're balanced entirely on the ball of the foot.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

here's my canned sit spin advice:

For the sit, go in w/ a *very* deep knee bend. This is the main prob I see
w/ almost all beginning spins: inadequate knee bend or almost none at all.
You cannot exaggerate the sit spin entry knee bend enough. This will center
your spin and give you something to pull on as you bring the free leg
around. Grab the free leg w/ the free hand as you descend. Pull it into
position and sit down.

Kay
www.skatejournal.com

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I started doing one-legged squats each night last week. They're pitiful. How long did it take you all before you could do these without falling over or grabbing the coffee table/sofa/floor?

A week.
Thing is, I just sit down in 1 go and I can't do that on a sit spin without falling over, cuz I lean on my heel!

Well, I'm 45 so it took a lot longer than Sessy's week ...(means I'm weak)...I used a cut-down piece of 2x4 block under my heel.

You can search, i put a thread up here a while back on sit-spin training. But just persevere through it and you will get it. The thing is starting YOUNG instead of OLDER!!!!

and BEND BEND BEND BEND BEND BEND those knees and ankles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

On the ice... the best advice I can give is to go into the spin in the lowest position you can go. It may mean doing a literal and yes I mean a literal sit position at times, but I've been doing this all summer and it works!!

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Just like to emphasize Kay's mention of bringing the free leg around - I often see beginners trying to bring the free leg "in front" rather than "around".

Anyway, the most interesting advise I've heard was to "bend your ankle".

- Chow

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Bringing the leg around centers the spin. I had a coach that emphasized the entry to the sit spin (bringing leg around, descending into position) should all occur in 1 rotation. It is hard to do, but if you are that fast and efficient, your sit will be fast and centered.

Kay

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Are you wearing at least a 2" heel? And remember to arch your back and push the free leg forward a little. It will come within a few weeks, just keep it up (and make sure to stretch your quads after doing them)!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Can I ask the reason for wearing a heel when doing the squats off ice? I assume its something to do with the heel on skates, but am curious as the difference it makes.

I have been trying to do one leg squats on and off for ages and still have the same problem as Morgail - the floor and my backside are very much friends.

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The heel makes it quite a bit easier because you push through your toes, not your heel (heel is harder, because you can't lean forward and use that momentum to get yourself up). This is how your foot is in your skate though, so it doesn't make any sense to practice the harder version unless you're really trying to build up leg strength, beyond what you'd need for a sit spin. In fact, the movement is actually pretty different, and the harder version might actually hinder your progress, or at least take you in a different, and longer, path.

Exactly. Wearing the heel replicates the position your body will be in on skates so that your body learns to balance with your weight on the ball of the foot on the way down and back up. The position you achieve off-ice will translate perfectly to the actual sitspin, so in this case, the easier training method is also more effective. You'll also find that arching your back rather than letting it get rounded will help keep your weight forward so you don't fall back on your heel (something that can happen on the ice in spite of the heel on your boot).

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Thank you sooo much. I wish someone had told me this two years ago, I really have trouble with the sit spin, it is my worst element. I just haven't been able to build up the strength to get even close

I am off to find come suitable shoes and practice falling on my arse

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"Well, I've got a banana, and in a pinch you could put up some shelves" - Captain Jack Harkness

Remember, lower your butt and push your free leg forward until you feel the calf of your skating leg pressing against the inside of the thigh of your free leg. If you can feel that, it means your skating thigh is parallel to the ice/floor and the position will get credit under IJS.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

Thanks for the tips - especially about getting a 2" heel! I think that's helped. Now I can at least get down without falling or grabbing onto something. I haven't quite mastered the getting back up yet, though

The good news is that it's easier to get back up from the sit position when you are actually spinning. The centrifugal force helps you!

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics