Do we have ten, anyone? Come on...the debate's not over until somebody loses an eye.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

C'mon then casey. Outside NOW - if you think your tough enough. I'll bop you up side the head with my fluffy blade soakers.

S xx

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There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness"

You just made it 10 pages, Casey!!! LOL!!! (No need to lose an eye over it. Besides, you already lost a finger!!! LOL!!!)

On original topic (and a reminder NOT to OD on things!!!): I OD'ed on my training Sunday. Went to the rink...skated 1.5 hours, then did ellipitical for 40-45 minutes. Got off the elliptical trainer and... could NOT walk!!! My lower back was REALLY sore... and I could not feel my left leg!!!

Gave it some time standing where I was, then managed to limp over to the elevator to go to a mat to stretch out. Heard this CRACK as I was stretching out my back. Got back up... I can walk again!!! Then I got to a VERY WARM shower to heat my back and it's feeling better again! Go figure!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Also on original topic - time for a (not to overdo it) drink!

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Recycle Love - Adopt a homeless pet

I know it sounds like a cliche, but maybe try some ice dance to help with that power-pushing (especially once you get thru the prelims and start working on the pre-bronzes and up). Dance teaches you very *efficient* power pushing, something that will always serve you well! Good luck! You can do it.

[QUOTE=jazzpants]
All judges are looking for different thing and they all have different expectations of what's considered passing. It's NOT universal...
[QUOTE]

Well, that's why you always have a panel in judging rather than just one judge (as a judge, I can say it is a very good thing).

That's the smartest way to structure your skating practices.....your coach will give you homework that he/she feels will help you get ahead. I have been doing the same thing, not listening to others, and boy did my skating improve! I have confidence that this attitude will go a long way for you too! You can do it!

LOL! As a judge, I see people trying to test at different clubs to get a "difference passing standard" and I can honestly tell you that it is a load of blarney. We have the same judges going to clubs *all over* our Metro area and it doesn't matter which club it is since the judges are the *same.* The passing standard honestly has nothing to do with which club it is.

Best thing to do is to practice what your coach tells you to do and work to perfect your test. Don't worry about which club is which. Listen to your coaches, do the homework, and let them dictate when you are ready to test. Work on solid technique & putting out the best skate you can during a test session!

I am no exception since I am a skater too!

Here's another view on the power threes for adults. Back when I had a coach and was actually doing power threes, coach told me I needed more power/speed. She hadn't seen that I was deliberately holding back and slowing myself down! I was scared of flipping out on the threes, which had happened before, and resulted in a pretty scary kind of cartwheeling fall. For me power is not the problem, it's control.

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My intuition on this is that perhaps too much power is the problem for lots of adults. Little kids just learning their turns and edges go much slower than I do; littler, smaller muscles, &c. I'm learning the same things, but having to do so with a lot more potential power.

Yup! That was my experience too! It's a TECHNIQUE issue!!! For the longest time I had trouble getting enough speed b/c I was just afraid of going too fast onto an edge and sliding off an edge. When my coach adjusted my power 3's so I'm facing where I'm supposed to be stepping to and when I figured out the timing of when to step to the FO, I felt a LOT more comfortable in pushing to a FO edge and eventually it was consistent and much faster (well, faster than a slug for me... but... )

If it's any consolation, dbny, the typical falls you get on those power 3's is probably just on your butt or your knees and it's nothing more than a bruise.

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

The statement "I skate just for fun" is another way to dumb down the whole experience. A very bourgeoisie concept that exists in countries, such as America, where there is disposable income "just to have fun." In several cultures the idea of "fun" doesn't even exist as a component of a serious pursuit. So, if it's "just for fun" then it is "recreational" so why compete? Which is it? I think this lies at the very heart about why Adult Skating is not taken seriously by many constituencies surrounding the sport.

Skating is a language, just like any other language. If I were trying to learn to speak Chinese, but just doing it for a hoot, or to hang out around good food, and make new friends, I would never achieve fluency, because that takes hardwork, a commitment, and level of seriousness. The gratification and fun is certainly a bi-product of this type of pursuit. However, I'm afraid if it is the main motivation is "having fun/making friends" then it's simply recreational. Well, maybe that's why the USFS has instituted the "recreational" catagory for adult skaters.

True to a certain point... in my case, I have judges traveling all over the Bay Area too... but unless there's a competition, chances are good that if I just go about a couple of hours away that I'll less likely to run into those same judges. (Of course, in the case of local competitions, all bets are off!!!)

Of course, in my case, the only reason why I just test at my home club is partly b/c I'm lazy and don't want to travel... and my primary coach (who's the person usually putting me out) also is lazy and don't want to travel too! LOL!!!

I don't know... my primary coach really thought I should have passed when I took my Bronze Moves test the second time around. (My secondary coach has reservations though... and so did I.) I don't think it's just the coaches that would dictate when I'm ready. I passed on the third try... this third time around, the primary and secondary coach agreed I was ready... and so did my moves critique judge AND my wonderful coach in NYC... I need that sense of unity from all my coaches to have the confidence to try for that test again. Point is... in the end, it's ME that has to dictate when I'm ready!
Now the primary coach is bugging me to test Bronze FS...

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Yup! I have way more power than anyone at my skill level should be trusted with! The best thing my summer coach did for me was teach me how to do forward cross-overs without going supersonic - LOL! (Of course she didn't do that until I almost took her out when an edge broke free while I was headed in her direction! )

For me, it has ALL been about control and my skating didn't really start coming together until I started to develop the core strength to keep the rest of my body (hips up) firmly in position.

As far as "fun", fun for me is challenging myself to learn to do things I can't do today. On January 18, I couldn't stand up on skates. Today I am fighting with 3-Turns and Mohawks. Forward stroking and edges aren't "fun" anymore - the blasted forward Mohawks are!

(Are we on page 11 yet?)

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

What's wrong with it being recreational? I don't mean to be snarky, as I'm honestly curious. (And not defensive; don't read that in at all.) Plenty of people are weekend warriors in other sports. There are baseball teams, soccer leagues, tennis clubs, running clubs, you name it; and not all of them are administered by the same organization that runs the professional league. (Nor do I think it's an American bourgeousie past-time to enjoy 'sport' without intending to be serious about it; thinking of pick-up games of soccer all over the world. Maybe not with skating, because that's expensive.) Many of these groups have competitions, even though they're just for fun. There are post-menopausal tap dancing women's groups, adult ballet classes.

I do skate, just for fun. For sport. I'm not intending to make a living at it. I'm not trying to go to the Olympics (good thing too!). That doesn't mean I don't try to perfect the skills I'm working on, or that I want a baby track that doesn't expect me to have edges because I'm trying to dumb it down, or that I'm just there to make friends and I'd be just as happy at a movie. It just means that this is a past-time. I do it because it's an enjoyable way to pass the time. To stay in shape. To have fun with a sport. If it becomes a chore, well, I can go to the gym for that and it's a lot cheaper, y'know?

What's wrong with skating being a fun sport that I'm not any good at?

Nothing at all, as long as you don't blame it on age and complain about it constantly. Fun is what it should all be about in any case.

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Absolutely nothing! All of the other adult skaters I know (except one) have that attitude.

I think it tends to be us "Type A" personalities who have to take an enjoyable passtime and make it a life-or-death struggle to triumph mind over body - LOL!

I know it drives my coach crazy - she just doesn't understand that I push myself so bloody hard simply because I ENJOY pushing myself hard. She says I need to take it easy on myself - does that slow me down? No. She says it takes time to learn some moves - does that make me any less determined to "get" that move NOW? No.

Different personalities have different needs and desires. I happen to be DRIVEN! - but that's just me and I certainly wouldn't want to push somebody else like I push myself!

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

Ah, but isn't that what makes things fun for us Type A personalities?

Personally, I love chucking myself in at the deep end. However, I've never done it for a sport before - it's always been academic - so while my brain's used to steep learning curves, my body isn't. If I hammer away at a move, I get tired and the practice stops being productive. On balance, I prefer to take a break from it and not injure myself, than spend 6+ weeks off the ice and have to regain the skills.

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"Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction. They may be summed up by the phrases:
(1) It's completely impossible.
(2) It's possible, but it's not worth doing.
(3) I said it was a good idea all along."
- Arthur C Clarke

Are you me?

Mine can be really self destructive for me at some point on the ice though. I'd never done a program before ISI FS4 so now they freak me out and I'm finally competing next month, ran through it yesterday for the first time since June (fractured shoulder, took time off) and I was so mad at myself for doing virtually everything wrong that I aborted the program. Who did I think I was, Johnny Weir????

Other than having to learn to give myself a break, I enjoy being a Type A skater, I hope it serves me well when I finally switch to U.S. Figure skating (once I get an axel and hopefully have more $$$$ for skating)

Nothing wrong with it at all. Those who approach it primarily for "fun and making friends" are clearly recreational skaters, and nothing wrong with that at all, which is why the USFSA has made a "recreational" catagory for adult competitions. I believe there was also a "recreational" catagory for the Adult Training Camp in Hackensack this past summer, too.

Then there are others who are in it, such as myself and my pairs partner, (and by the way, we are definitely not alone in this. We speak with many many other adult skaters who feel the same way we do about this "fun/limitations" issue) who are clear that the primary reason we are doing this is not JUST for "fun" and "socializing." I can think of much less expensive ways to have fun and make friends.

To some extent, I would agree with you that the "just for fun" thing can be seen as "not serious." But if you look at the idea that most adults are working (either at home with families or out in the workplace 40+hours/week), life is so serious that sometimes we need to blow off steam. Personally, skating has been a great release for me. It's a distraction from my very "serious" technical Senior Engineering life in the automotive industry. I work hard at work because I have to, and I work hard at skating because I enjoy it so much. Life can't always be 100% serious. And the people I talk to daily are amazed that I can have the discipline to get up at the crack of dawn 4-5 mornings a week and do physical exercise. Do they see it as a "serious" investment in time & money? You bet! Not one of them would ever do it!

Competition/testing for me is a way to see if I can do all these learned elements, in front of judges, while my knees are shaking. I like to set goals for myself and achieve them. I don't do it for anyone else, just ME! And other people I meet don't see my skating "hobby" as a "recreational hobby" because I have been skating at the crack of dawn for 8 yrs straight. They are amazed by how I can balance "real life" with a hobby that to them is downright dangerous!

We adult skaters are amazing!

Exactly! Isn't that why we all skate? I climb the mountain because it is there and for the thrill I get when I stand at the top (one little move at a time) and the feeling of accomplishment. Others do it for the view.

Fersure! (Though, for me, "cracked" might be more appropriate )

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Dianne
(A.O.S.S.? Got it BAD! )

LOL! I totally agree!

Why do I skate? Because I can and because I love it!

I think that suits a lot of people on this board-we skate because we love it and we will keep skating as long as we can and as long as the love is there.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

"Being the Best that You Can Be" is one thing. Thinking that the world revolves around skating (or should revolve - and getting mad when it doesn't) is something else again.

The fact remains that adults skaters - no matter how much we train and sweat and struggle - aren't going to the Olympics. Adult Nationals and Mountain Cup and the Obertsdorf competition are wonderfule events but they aren't on the same level as the Tour de France or the World Cup. The majority of the skaters in adult events have other jobs outside of skating (how else would we pay for it?) and homes and families that put demands on us that the truly elite athletes don't generally have. We aren't doing this to make a living at it, or to acheive fame an fortune. When it comes right down to it, we challenge ourselves and that challenge is a source of enjoyment and that's good. That's the fun for me, anyway.

I don't compete to beat other people (thanks God because I'd be doomed to disappointment ) and it bothers me to see my friends beating themselves up because, even though they did the best they could, they didn't win because somebody else skated better than they did. Guess what, there's ALWAYS going to be somebody better, sooner or later and winning a gold medal today doesn't make you a better person than you were. Believing that skating is the Be All and End All of Existence - and that anyone who doesn't share your belief is somehow beneath your notice - IS delusional.

It's Adult Skating - there's nobody standing at the podium to hand me tickets to Disneyworld for winning a medal and come Monday morning, I still have to get up and go to work, just like millions of other people. To paraphrase one of my heroes, the marathoner Joan Benoit Samuelson, "Skating isn't my life, it's a part of my life." I'm in it for the long run.

I don't skate 'just for fun' but I certainly skate because it's fun and personally can't imagine why anyone would skate if they didn't enjoy it. I don't see that being serious about a sport and enjoying and finding it fun are mutually exclusive at all. There are loads of kids - probably the majority in fact who skate 'for fun' but nobody says they aren't serious and shouldn't compete if they aren't aiming for the Olympics (though there are certainly some so called 'elite' skaters who appear to feel that only they should be allowed on the ice at all!).

Why do I compete? Because in a perverse kind of way even competing can be fun. I enjoy the challenge of competing and for me, without competition then my skating would be without goals and without goals I have nothing to work towards and no reason to learn new jumps or moves or spins. Then it wouldn't be fun anymore.

Competition also gives me a reason to try to overcome my limitations (physically I have problems with both my back and my knees) and without it there would be no real reason to push my limits. Testing gives you goals to some extent but competing against others gives a special kind of impetus - though I am not so vain as to assume winning means I am the best skater. I am lucky in so far having had the apparent ability to skate better in competition than I do in practice, whereas some skaters with more technical ability than I have, do not necessarily do so well in competition.

I take exception to lovepairs's assertion that you cant have fun in a serious pursuit. Having fun while doing any serious pursuit generally makes one better at it. Taking the language anaology, I would bet that the person learning a language to have fun and make friends would actually end up better at it than the one studying it 'seriously' in a class because the first person's motivation is higher (everyone is motivated by enjoyment surely!) and they are enjoying the practicing.

I dont know what cultures lovepairs refers to when talking about 'not having fun in a serious pursuit' but I've lived in some fairly poverty stricken places and I'd say 'fun ' was pretty high on the agenda though they may not be able to afford to 'buy' their fun.

If the competitive personalities get their fun from winning that's great for them but don't diss the rest of us who are just as serious about our skating but for whom winning isnt everything. In fact speaking from experience, those for whom winning is all, can be very sore losers when one of us 'less serious' skaters beats them in competition!