ask any coach and they would tell you the same thing without seeing anyone skate.

The wall does have its uses- but never for holding on when you jump. You don't need to see someone doing it to know its going to make a bad habit.

of course if that what you want its your personal decision

personally I'd rather fall on my butt on the ice than fracture my skull on the wall.

Not everyone is in the same mental of physical condition that you are on the ice, so what seems easy to you may not be easy for someone else. You don't know the age, physical condition or skating experience of the skater who posted this message, so your recommendation might be a dangerous one for her/him.

I think *coughcentaurandbeachbabecough* are off the wall.

Centaur - your reply is over-the-top and mocking. If you feel that a post is "ridiculous", may I suggest you not read or reply? If you post again in this manner, moderator action will be taken.

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Since we're voicing opinions, let me say that, as a professional skating coach since 1994, I disagree with your opinion. From about 10-years of age most new skaters have a true fear of jumps and turns. They're stiff on the ice, terrified of falling and getting hurt. When you become a full-sized adult, it only gets worse. The muscle memory that you had from skipping and jumping rope as a kid really isn't there when you're trying to learn to do a double bunny hop on the ice without a safety net.

As beginners, they're not going to land on their butt. I've never seen anyone (my students or others') slam into the wall while doing tiny waltz jumps and bunny hops while using it as a barre'. The worst that I've seen happen is a student who wrenched a shoulder. Better than the head injury she would have gotten.

I'd rather have a student take an extra month to safely learn a jump by starting with the wall than "go for it" and fracture their skull on a bunny hop. The end result of that method wouldn't be the bounce-back-up-and-try-again of youth; most beginner adults would quit and never come back.

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So I should feel lucky - I'm 20 but I behave like a 5 year old (i'm never afraid and I have quite good muscle memory- learned axel in a week).I think everyone has a different way to learn things and we can't judge it. if someone needs a little more time to learn it, but he finally got it- it's ok.

IceAge - I hear you - I guess Im very lucky too - I couldnt understand why in my adult classes and in my provate lessons everyone makes a big deal about my jumps and what not because they dont seem great to me. But, I have never had any fear and have no problem launching myself into the air on the ice or recovering when I fall, so I guess thats what impressed them. I feel lucky that my former career as a gymnast I can credit this fearlessness with - its not that I dont have any, as a gymnast I had plenty, I guess I just dont feel scared to fall a foot or two when Im used to smaking my head on the beam from a 3-4 foot high layout or crashing to my neck from double backs.

But - for everyone with fear- I used to have the WORSE fear of tumbling on beam and truely - having a spot or a safety net was the only thing that helped me move on and eventually do the skill on my own. So if someone needs the wall to learn a jump - and they arent forming bad habits - then do it. We all have different things that scare us, we just need to realize what will help us get thru the fear.

Oh, BTW - congrats on your jump! Thats terrific!

congrats on your jumps! Way to go.

For the rest of you. If you aren't going to say anything nice to her, then don't say anything at all. Every one has a different way of learning. If the wall worked for her, then she can use it. I some times use the wall when I want to make sure I have good form.

Not every one does everything the same way.

Hopefully when you learn a new trick or master something, people will have a much kinder response to your post. If not, then you may want to reflect on your comments in this post.

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Check out the sites I run
http://www.joelisi.net
http://www.charlieday.net

Feel lucky! Rejoice! JUMP!

However, I think empathy for others is a good thing. I know what that muscle-freezing fear feels like because of my own non-skating fear. That understanding gives me the patience and leadership to encourage others to overcome their fear of jumping. If it involves using tools such as the wall, my hands, or a harness, I'm up to the challenge.

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Repeat after me....EVERYONE LEARNS DIFFERENTLY. So now not only do you know what's best for Leda, you know what is the best teaching methods for all the coaches in the world?

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~No thinking, breathing, or hesitation!~

Learning something new is always an accomplishment. Everybody learns different and what is hard for one might not be for an other. If your trying, learning something new, and making progress you have the "right" to feel proud of yourself. If you can't say anything nice....be quiet so someone else can!

Chico

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"I truly believe, when God created skating, he patted himself on the back."

WELL said! , and Sincere congratulations!, Leda

(she says, wondering about us at the Bunny-hop stage...)

Annie

ooooh, bunny-hops are pure evil!!!!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

I agree - killer bunny hops. Didn't get comfortable with them until I had to teach them multiple times a day!

Back on topic:

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As my username implies, I actually don't mind bunny hops, but then I've never had a fall on one either. I can see why it would be off-putting.

I'm now trying something which I'm calling waltz hops - i.e. a waltz/three jump so tiny it cannot possibly be classified as a jump (and yes, I'm doing them next to the wall). When I skated as a teenager I could do a small waltz jump - in anti-clockwise direction. So I'm really re-learning them and have some muscle memory. The trouble is that my coach has changed my spinning direction to clockwise, so now I can't work out whether to do the waltz hop in clockwise direction to match my spins (such as they are, but that's another story) or stick with the anti-clockwise which still feels a little more natural.

Now what IS evil are cross behinds (as seen in the Rhythm Blues dance). I'm not convinced I'll ever be able to do those away from the wall!

If you think bunny hops are bad, try doing them going down the length as fast as you can and alternating feet each time!!! (I bashed my knee up badly once doing those...)

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Is that supposed to be ironic sarcasm...or something?

I got the waltz jump in one public session. You're being ridiculous. (EDIT: Fine, you're being...uh...progressive?)

Ummm... how old are you???

If you are a kid, remember not everyone learns jumps and spins at the same rate...

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

You do realize that Leda is 13., not like 40.

True... but doesn't mean anything. I mean how often does she skate? Is she overweight? Does she have other injuries that may cause trouble? Does she have a strong fear factor? Too many factors to go by...

The point is... shouldn't we cheer for people on their accomplishments, no matter HOW LONG IT TAKES for them to learn it??? It's called "good sportmanship."

ETA: I see that you're 12 on another thread...

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Lol, ok, I didn't mean to be so "uncheerful", but I am really really mad at my computer right now. Whoever sat there making Microsoft should burn. Don't ask.

Anyway, congratulations. Keep practicing it and improve, because it really helps you get ready for the big boys' jumps. hehe

And yes I am 12. I am a "kid". *goes and cries in a dark corner*

That would be a few hundred computer geeks in Redmood, WA -- mostly guys, but some women too. A LOT of people agree with 'ya!!! LOL!!! (I'm a working computer geek, BTW, but NOT at Microsoft... thank God!!! )

LOL!!! No need to... just thought you might wanna know that what you said can be taken a different way...

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Lol yeah I know. BTW, totally off topic....There's this amazing movie about a computer/hacking geek who hacked the Microsoft website and all the authorities praised him for it, singing a salutation song. (LOL!) I totally cracked up.

Sorry. That was random. ^

did you know that Microsoft hires hackers to put viruses on peoples computers and make them spread so their slaes are good for each new version of windows.

I read about it in some magazine.

*sorry this is way off topic but i had to mention it*

You know you were sorta right about "the wall". Once when I was trying to do a waltz jump with a wall (a long time ago), I almost sliced it with my skate...LOL