Hello All

I am new to this forum and also a beginner on Ice.
I am in my late 30's, live in Connecticut and got on ice for the first time yesterday. I fell a couple of times and stayed near the railing. I was mostly walking and trying to get a feel for the ice surface. I was wondering if I can ever pick up speed since I tended to fall backwards.
Now I am planning to take the beginners classes for adults (8 wks for $150) that includes rentals at this venue: www.northfordice.com.

Here are a few questions:

Is it better to go with beginners classes or private tutoring?

I would like some input on inexpensive skates such as the "Bauer' brand available at the Sports Authority.

Also is it important to wear knee, elbow, wrist pads and helmet. Are they comfortable while skating.

Thanks

venky

Welcome to skating!

Taking lessons is a great idea to learn the basics. What I'm sure your instructor will teach you first is how to glide using your edges, instead of "walking" on the ice. As you are learning this, pretend you are pushing a chair across the ice - the idea is to shift your weight (a little) from side to side so that you are putting pressure on your edges. That helps you move forward smoothly. Don't push with your toepicks. If you feel yourself falling, bend your knees and just sit down, rather than flail trying to stay upright - I know from experience that this can lead to more serious falls (and injuries).

I would recommend group lessons to start. They are cheaper than private lessons and give you the chance to meet other skaters, especially if you can take an adult class, like you are doing. At this point, there's not much more a private instructor will tell you vs. a group instructor. Once you start working on more advanced skills and get serious about skating, then is a good time to start private lessons, either by themselves or a supplement to group lessons.

I'm not that familiar with the exact brand of skates you mentioned - although my understanding is that they are hockey skates (unless the co makes both figure and hockey). Definitely get figure skates, and don't get cheap Dick's/Sports Authority/Target brands - you'll have no foot or ankle support. If you don't want to skate in rentals, go to the pro shop at your rink (or another rink) and get a good pair of beginner skates - Riedell and Jackson have good models for your level. Expect to spend about $75 to $100. The good news is that skates for your level come with the blades attached, so you don't need to spend extra for blades. If you don't want to make the investment in your own skates right now, use rentals. I've heard coaches in my area tell parents they are better than the skates sold in discount or general sporting goods stores.

I didn't wear any padding or a helmet when I started, but depending on your comfort level, it might be a good idea. It's up to you. If you've had a prior injury to your knees/elbows/wrist/head, definitely wear something. You could also ask the skating director at the rink where you're taking lessons what he/she recommends.

Enjoy your lessons!

The group lessons are great for beginners.

Since you're falling backward, my guess would be that your arms are either swinging (like with normal walking) or you are letting your arms get behind you.

Until you are more secure on the ice, put your arms out in front of you like you are pushing a grocery cart. DON'T move them. Keep them dead still.

If you feel like you are starting to lose your balance, bend over and grab your knees. This causes you to bend your legs and center your gravity. It can save a sore behind.

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Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau

I agree... I think the group lessons are a great starting point. It will not just teach you the basics but most importantly let you see whether you even like the sport or not, all that while being very affordable!

I would wait to buy skates till after the program or rather after you decide to stick with it and at that time don't go with the cheap skates from a sporting goods store but instead buy a good entry level skate.

I personally would never skate with the protective gear you discribe... I simply find it unnecessary and counterprodutive... but that's me and my opinion. Just try it without and then decide for yourself if you need any or all... though a helmet would be a tad extreme.

Have fun!!!

Re: the protective gear---if you're wobbly, and it sounds like you are, then go ahead and use any protective gear you need. I don't recommend any gear that is plastic on the outside, though (except for maybe a helmet), because it can slide in unexpected ways and cause unintended injury. Get soft kneepads (like they use for volleyball). Be careful with helmets--bike helmets aren't intended for skating use, and may not adequately protect you, depending on their shape and how they fit. If you don't wear a helmet (and I wouldn't, necessarily), definitely wear a knit hat with an edge you can fold up--it will provide some padding just in case.

The MOST IMPORTANT THING you can do as a beginner is BEND YOUR KNEES. And yes, I'm shouting it. You're falling over backward because your knees are straight. I can guarantee it. You need to skate as if you're sitting down in a chair. Don't laugh, I'm serious. Bend your knees (quite a bit), and push off your edges at a 45% angle behind you--NOT straight behind as if you're walking. (That's a perfect way to catch a toepick and go down.)

Your coach will go over all this in your first lesson, but it's good to know it going in, so you know what to listen for!

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One unobtrusive piece of gear that you might consider is rollerblade gloves. They have a plastic piece in the palm that will slide on the ground (ice) if you throw your hand down to catch yourself.

Had I had them on when I was first starting out skating, I might not have fractured my wrist when I fell.

Of course, if I had listened to my coach and not tried the mohawk until I had practiced it 200 times at the boards, I might not have fractured it either.

Gary now always listens to his coach.

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Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau

Please wear a helmet, for me? I really think all beginners should start out with a helmet. The volleyball knee pads are a good idea, too. Not sure about the other equipment.

The group lessons are the better value if the class has a low teacher:student ratio. Try to get used to going forward before the class starts and you'll get more out of the lesson time. Plan on skating at least an hour each week, practicing what you learn. If the class sizes are really large, you'll need to get attention from the teacher or you'll get ignored. Also, see how the classes are filled: if they have a wide variety of skills in each class group, that's not a good thing. Everyone should be more or less at the same level.

Private lessons are always good because you have individual attention. That means you won't get away with bad form or mistakes for very long. It's also more fun because you can chit-chat and really focus on your skills.

I believe Bauer only makes hockey skates. Since this is mainly a figure skating forum, you're not going to get too many replies about this brand. But, there are some very knowledgeable people out there.

That said, what type of skates did you rent: hockey or figure skates? I, like most instructors, recommend starting out on figure skates because the blades are flatter and longer than hockey blades. Not to mention the toe pick at the front trains you quickly to shift your weight from foot to foot. Beginners can then learn to balance easier without rocking forward and backward off the blade and falling. (Sound familiar?) I have a student (boy) who wears the Softec brand skates; they're figure skates but they don't look it.

Before you commit to any style or brand, use the figure skating rentals for a few sessions. You can always switch rentals after 6 sessions or so to try out hockey skates, then decide which you like better. Don't cheap out and buy the Modell's specials. For every parent who's bragged about their "great deal," I've seen their kid's feet blistered and watched the children struggle with cheap skates that look "just as good" but are not the same thing. Go to a good pro shop, get your feet measured, have them recommend a pair of skates, and let them sharpen the blades. (All included in the purchase price at a pro shop.) Sporting goods stores can't sharpen the blades, they claim the skates come pre-sharpened. Not true or good enough. You'll end up at a pro shop anyway within a month, paying an additional $10-12. If the skates hurt, you can go back to the pro shop and they punch the spot out or stretch the boots to fit better. Trust me: you'll save the extra money in time, pain, and additional hidden costs. The services are worth the extra $$.

Totally agree - always start on the boards, then take a giant step away, then try it for real!

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If your rink is like mine, sometimes the "kids" at the counter put beginners in hockey skates because of the "fear of the toepick" thing. That tends to put people off figure skates from the get-go, unfortunately. Get figure skates and keep your knees bent. Getting used to the toepick is no big deal. Hockey skates are rockier than figure skates (which are flatter). When you move up in your class, you will have to switch over anyway because you will need the toepick for other things (3-turns and stuff).

Good luck!!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Unless ofcourse he's trying to get into hockey not figure skating.
Btw, I found skating on hockey skates much easier than on figure skates especially the cross-overs.
When I was about 8 or 10 my parents got me figure skates (for recreational skate though). We went to the rink (about 2 hours away) ocassionally just for fun. When I outgrew the figure skates I bought myself hockey skates... thought they looked cooler... and had sooo much more fun on them!
Didn't switch back to figure skates till about 2 years ago and only because I wanted to get into figure skating.

If you're used to not having one because you're used to skating on hockey skates it can be somewhat of a "deal", believe me... back cross-overs were much easier without them for this beginner, that's for sure!

Again I think that's a matter of perception... I mean whether that's a problem or not... to me it never was, yet the longer blade of the figure skates took some getting used to.
I'm not saying that you should start skating on hockey skates when your goal is to do figure skating but if the goal is just recreational skate it really doesn't matter and is simply up to ones own like.

I respectfully disagree with some of the points made here, so I'll just list the things I think are most important, and hit the disagreements as I go.

1) It is much harder to learn to skate in hockey skates (VegasGirl, you did say you learned in figure skates first, also you were a child). Adults, especially, should start in figure skates. They are lower to the ice, wider, longer, not so rockered, and have toe picks and tails which help prevent forward and backward slips off the blades. All of the schools I work at prefer to start kids in figure skates for basic skills even if hockey is the goal.

2) Stretch out your arms in front and put your hands on an imaginary table at belly button height. The more still you can keep your upper body, the easier it will be to control your legs and feet.

3) Do not pretend to sit in a chair to get your knees bent. I have an adult student who fell twice doing that, once tonight! I did not see her fall the first time, or I would have caught the mistake. Instead, push your knees over your toes, keeping your back straight. If you still tend to sit, then stretch your arms even more forward. Sitting is going to slide you right off the backs of your blades, especially if you are in hockey skates. You can practice bending your knees while facing the railing and holding on. You should be able to feel if your weight goes to the backs of your blades (that's a no no) when you bend. Also, if you cannot get your knees over your toes, it's possible that your boots are laced too tightly at the top. Try lacing them tightly all the way, but do not lace the last hook. Do not wrap excess lace around your ankle.

4) The first instructions are to "march" on the ice, picking up your knees and putting your feet back down exactly in place. Pushing and gliding come later.

5) Since you are in your late thirties, I strongly recommend soft knee pads. You can save yourself a lot of pain and even serious injury by wearing them at least until you feel more secure on the ice. There are skaters here who feel that knee pads are like a security blanket and that they might have trouble weaning themselves off of them. I have three words for that: broken knee cap. Regarding the wrist guards - I was told by my orthopod that there is no consensus among doctors about whether or not they protect you from broken wrists on the ice. His own opinion is that if you fall that hard, then the force would just be transmitted upward, and you might suffer a worse fracture of both the radius and unla. Since I hate the look of wrist guards, that was just what I wanted to hear, but I do know adults who wear them, and haven't heard any horror stories. ITA with Isk8NYC about wearing a helmet! One rink where I teach requires helmets for all beginners, including adults.

6) I teach both private lessons and groups and agree with Isk8NYC about how to make the choice. That being said, since you are in your late thirties (age does make a difference, I'm close to sixty), you might do better starting with private lessons. Be sure you get a coach with experience teaching adult beginners. College aged kids, from what I've seen, are not the best at that, as they still think they are immortal .

7) When you get yourself fitted for skates, the rule of thumb is that the boot size should be about one or two sizes smaller than your shoe size. Do not let anyone sell you skates that are too big. If the size is larger than your shoe size, then you know right away that it is wrong. The Jackson Softec, that Isk8NYC mentioned (with a figure blade), is an excellent recreational skate for beginners, and is cut slightly wide. There are two models that are priced from $50 to $100, and are well worth the investment. You can always go on to more advanced boots/blades as you progress. If you have a narrow foot, you might do better with a low end Riedell boot/blade combo. When you rent, be sure to get figure skates, and ask for a size smaller than your shoe size.

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If you call skating around the rink during public sessions "learning to skate" then I guess you're right, I did "learn" to skate on figure skates. All I was able to do though was glide around and stop mostly using the wall.
The rest such as stops and cross-overs I taught myself on my hockey skates... and yes, that was as a kid.
I then didn't skate for about 20 years before I started up again thinking it would be a fun thing to do with my kids. So we started going to public skate at our local rink and I naturally picked up a pair of hockey skates. Had absolutely no problems getting back into skating like I had all those 20 years prior, being an adult and all. A couple of months laer I decided to start taking lessons... figure skating lessons... which meant I had to use figure skates. No question, the hockey skates were much easier... but I already said that.

I guess it all depends on what gives you problems when learning to skate...

Hm, though I do know a couple of ladies that skate with knee pads I never quite got why. The few times I've seen them fall they fell onto their butts, nowhere near their knee caps. I'm not saying that they can't be a good thing... I'm just wondering why knee pads and not padded drawers?

And btw I sort of feel offended by the implication of late thirties being old age! I started taking lessons at 38 (no pads mind you) and am neither frail nor exceptionally clumsy. Yes, I agree, it is different to learn to skate as an adult vs as a child but late thirties is not ancient and does not require any extreme measures as long as one is healthy.

Hm, I still say start with the group lessons I see if it's even worth it to you to spend all that money on private lessons. Group lessons are expensive enough if you end up not liking it after all, would be a shame to waste all that money on private lessons. As to what coach is best for you should you decide to go with private lessons that depends IMHO solely on your preference. Are you a more gutsy athletic 30+er or the more timid, clumsy one... questions like that. I had a great coach that, though not a college kid any more but rather right around my age, still was challenging me as if thinking that we're all immortal... and that was exactly the right attitude for me. What made him so great was that he was able to adjust to the skater's need, adjusting his teaching accordingly!
On the other hand I had a couple of coaches before taking private lessons that were agewise in the college category but taught us adults as if we were frail old beings about to break... hated it!

Yes, I agree don't let any one sell you skates at are too big but by the same token don't let them talk you into skates that are too small! Have your foot measured by a professional and then try on that size skates. Chances are pretty good they end up being the right size. When you try them on wer the same kind of socks (or whatever) you plan on wearing while skating as that can make a big differende.
I was measured before ordering my skates and wear the same size in skates as in shoes... not bigger and certainly not smaller (that would absolutely kill my feet!). Make sure you still have some wiggle room in the boot but not so much that your foot slides or is able to twist around in them. And don't just try them on sitting down, lace em up, get up and walk around a bit!

Venky, one of the things you'll notice about this board is that there is a wide variety of experience and knowledge. As a result, any question posted will generate responses that can be contradictory to one another. Several people have given you suggestions based on their own experience in learning. Others have advised you based on their experience in teaching. It's up to you to absorb these responses and determine which ones match your situation accurately.

Let us know how you make out.

Best of luck,

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I only mentioned 'sit in a chair' because it's easier to visualize just how much you need to bend your knees. Saying only 'bend your knees' tends to not get it done. I never dreamed that someone would 'sit' without also putting the knees over the toes---I just tried it here next to my computer, and I can't 'sit' without putting my knees over my toes even in shoes! I tried it, and nearly ended up on my butt on the floor. So I can't imagine what your student was going for, there. But yes, knees should most definitely be over the toes! Back should be straight, but not necessarily vertical--an important distinction, since if you're going for vertical, you'll likely have your weight too far back, making you more likely to go over backwards as well.

Your behind is much less vulnerable than your knees. A lot of us, especially if we have been athletic throughout our lives, or even just in our youth, already have knee damage. This leads me to another keyword regarding knee pads: toepick!

I'm not implying that late thirties is old age . I had my kids when I was 36 and 39. I don't consider knee pads to be extreme measures. The big difference that age makes, IMO, is that you heal much more slowly, so any accident takes a bigger toll. Now that I think about it, there is a very big difference between late thirties and fifties. After fifty, the slow healing really starts to kick in, so maybe I am advocating a bit too much caution. Still, a woman in her thirties just broke her knee cap about 6 weeks ago, when she fell on F crossovers in her group lesson. I do think knee pads might have prevented that. And, as I said above, damage accumulates throughout one's life.

ITA. I only cautioned about too large because that is the most common error. Salespeople often just get a larger boot when what is really needed is a wider boot.

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ITA with the straight back as opposed to vertical. I see kids do the "sit" without knee bend all the time, but I had never seen an adult do it before last night. I know that she thought she was bending her knees; haven't we all been there! What happened to you when you tried it, is exactly what happened to my student - butt onto ice in a flash! After she got up, we went to the boards and I helped her get the knee bend going there. Even so, she was still so far back that I had to have her lean forward at the waist when stopping. This particular student is very tall and very overweight, so that could be a factor in her problem. Still, the image of the "sit in a chair" terminology made me shudder. Just tried it myself, and you are right that the knees must bend, but after yesterday's experience, I think I'll stick with "push knees over toes".

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Hey, ya do what ya gotta do! Ideally, the bend should be at the hips, and NOT the waist (risk pitching forward with a waist bend), but it's a distinction that can come a bit later, when safety is foremost at the moment. If the tendency is to go backward, a bit of waist bend will probably bring it back to neutral, rather than go too far forward. It's an individual thing.

Some beginner kids obviously have no ideas where their knees are and bend in all sorts of funny places..... They look most odd, but it usually comes right in the end. They get taught "Little man" or "mushrooms", and that helps with the concept of bending their legs.

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Mrs Redboots
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I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Unless you find that the classes are so large that no one skater gets much attention, classes are probably fine to start.

They're ok if hockey skates are what you're looking for, but cheap skates like that usually have iffy-quality blades that don't last long. I'd suggest getting fitted at a hockey shop for better-quality hockey skates that will last longer, since you won't be outgrowing them.

I like to see helmets on beginners of any age, especially beginners on hockey skates (I see far more sudden backward falls from skaters on hockey skates because of the shorter, rounded blade). Wear knee pads if you feel better with them.

I've never skated at Northford but I live in the area- PM me if you need names of good skate dealers.

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Thanks to everyone for their time and advice and guiding me in the right direction.
My goal is to learn ice skating (not ice hockey).
I will be starting group training classes this weekend for the next 8 weeks. For my first class, I have decided to wear wrist pads (from my tennis set). I will buy soft knee pads (since I have a soft spot on my knee from an injury years ago). I will talk to the instructor and get some advice regarding other protective guards. I imagine the first class will be a mild one. I will remember to bend my knees over my toes and stay in front of the group!!
I also go the gym regularly and I have been giving extra workout for my legs in preparation for my skating.
I am not sure what kind of skates I had rented but they were very heavy and had a straight blade without any rough edges in the front. I also took an appt with a pro shop to get my feet measured.

Thanks again for all your comments.

Those were hockey skates, which explains why you were falling backwards. If you rent again, be sure to ask for figure skates. Congratulations on signing up for lessons! Hope you have a lot of fun.

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DBNY's right: they were hockey skates and they're difficult to learn on for beginners. Since you're getting measured, I'll assume your purchasing skates. Since you say you don't want to do hockey, I suggest you purchase figure skates.

Don't forget to wear a helmet, for me, please.
** Bats eyes coquettishly - anything to stop a head injury from happening. **

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Since skates rental is free with my classes, I won't buy the figure skates immediately but I will get my feet measured to get an idea of the size since I will need it when I am ready to buy the skates.

Just got myself enrolled today and found out that there are only 4 people in my class and the rink allows a max of 8 per instructor. So I hope to get the most out of my instructor.

Sounds good. Something else to check when you get your rentals (each time), is the sharpness of the blades. Just run your finger across the blade (not down the length) to see if you can feel both edges. Some rinks let their blades go flat, and then you just slip out sideways on them; very unsafe. Also, take a look at the blades to see that they haven't been sharpened to oblivion. At one rink where I work, they actually sharpen the figure blades till there is almost nothing left; the toe picks are almost gone, and the tail comes to a point. You don't want to skate on that. Don't be afraid to politely ask for a sharper pair or ones with more blade.

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I can testify about the flat blade problem. The first time I ever set foot on ice (just this past Saturday) ended up being in a pair of rentals with completely flat blades. It was like trying to skate on the flat side of a butter knife. I was trying to learn how to manage to skate, but my feet kept sliding to the side resulting in a few unfortunate crashes. I just *couldn't* get the hang of it. I went back Sunday with the determination that I was going to get steady on my feet. The rentals that time were *so* much better with better blades and I could definitely tell the difference. I felt much steadier and managed to work my way up to laps around the rink. Last night, I skated in rentals where the blade was in between the first and second rentals and noticed that I was having a bit of trouble (nothing too drastic, but I could tell the difference between the duller blade, not to mention the chopped up ice that felt like I was gliding over speed bumps on the freeway) and ended up with a few crashes (partly to do with over confidence after my successes on Sunday and partly to do with marginal blades). I only have to put up with the rentals for a little while longer, though, since my Jackson Marquis are on order through the pro shop.

Way to go!

At the outdoor rink where I work, there is invariably one poor kid in each class who has those &^%#$ flat blades. I am then caught with trying to protect the kid while trying to teach the others. The classes are at the back of the rink, so unless there is a parent present or a helper to get the kid off and into different skates, the poor thing is stuck.

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