My 8 year old son has a beautiful Sal, but it's just not clicking with me . . . I've read through the threads here and I know there needs to be a strong check on the 3 turn - and I can hold that 3 forever, but something is wrong . . . I just keep going backwards, I'm not getting any (*grip?* for lack of a better word) on the ice so as to be able to jump off that edge. So when I *jump* it's mostly just a skid and . . . frustration.

Help me out here and break it down - at the moment when you jump - where *should* your weight be - and where are the arms positioned?

I had a EUREKA moment over the weekend with my one-foot spin entry from backwards crossovers (I wasn't *getting* that either - but now I *get* it - magical!) - it was a simple thing with bringing my free arm across. Anyway, while I'm on that high, I figured I would go for broke and see if I could figure out the problem with the Salchow too . . . thanks for any tips anyone can pass along!

Sorry, I wish I had any for you. But I want ot congratulate you on your eureka moment with the one foot spin. I would also be interested in hearing tips since me and the sal don't rreally get along too well. I'm trying to improve our relationship

Well, let's see. At the actual moment of take-off, my weight is (I *think*) pretty centered on my body--as you hold that back edge, you should start to bend the skating knee and "sit", and at the same time, start 'scooping' with the free arm and knee. By the time you take off, you are actually kind of squared up--your arms are kind of in the 'beach ball' position, your free knee is up and slightly 'pointing' in the direction you want to jump (so if you froze yourself at that second, you'd be slightly 'pigeon-toed', because your legs are starting to cross...that doesn't last for long, however). Your weight is shifting to center, because when you land, your weight will now be over your formerly free leg (now your landing leg). Just like a waltz jump, you're transferring your weight from your takeoff leg to your landing leg.


It's been quite a while since I've done a salchow, so anyone else, feel free to jump in or correct this.

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Here goes (CCW skater):

1) Setup -- LFI edge; toe push to change onto a LFO edge.
2) Arms rotate to the left (right arm across body.); LFO 3T; You're now on a LBI edge.
3) Hooooold LBI edge; Arms are checked - left in front of your chest, right arm over your free (right) leg. Leg is in a landing position.
4) BEND YOUR LEFT KNEE. NOW BEND IT MORE! (It's never enough )
5) Keep your left arm in front - it's okay if it opens a little to the left as you jump, but don't let the arm come above your chest.
6) Shift your weight to the ball of your left foot (still on that edge). Don't drop your left hip; keep your free leg behind you.
7) Jump off that edge by bringing your right arm AND leg around to the front in one smooth motion at the same time.
8) Arms meet at mid-chest and stay there until you land on the right toepick/RBO edge.
9) You won't really feel it, but your weight shifts from left to right.
10) Landing position check with left arm in front, right arm to the side. (Or 10:2 if you it's easier for you.)

I recently switched from "scooping" the free leg around (as Flippet recommended) to "kneeing" it and the results have been great. Just bring your free leg through, leading with the bent knee. It's stopping the dizziness and really let me leap up into the air. (I was probably dropping the hip to scoop around.)

ETA: Flippet also brings the knee through, not around.

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Hee. I guess it all depends on what you mean by 'scooping'! Because I guess that when I think 'scoop', I'm thinking of scooping with the knee. I imagine that we're actually doing the same thing, just using different terms.

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
--Thomas Jefferson

www.signingtime.com ~sign language fun for all!

Ohhhh. I see. Yep, I think we're in agreement.

Eons ago, I was taught to do this jump, my coach said to "scoop around and out to the side" with a straight free leg.
Result? I would spin a bit on the ice and feel like limbs were going everywhere! LOL

I will say that my little pre-pre-prel student has a beautiful salchow. I'm very proud of that.

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AAACCKKK!!! No, no, no! Oy vey. That's the way to do it if you want to get zero height, catch an edge, and end up on your tail!



Nope, UP is the way to go! Straight UP, and THROUGH, leading with the KNEE!

Lessee....when I think 'scoop', I'm thinking like....you know those big industrial-size barrels of things like dry beans, or dog food or something, that you scoop out with a big plastic scoop? You dig down with it, then SCOOP up on a vertical curve. I guess I think of my knee as the scoop. Or, like digging ice cream out of the carton with a spoon. Once your spoon is set (like, once your 'check' is set to jump), you SCOOP it up!

Semantics are funny, aren't they?

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"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
--Thomas Jefferson

www.signingtime.com ~sign language fun for all!

I was just fixing the takeoff of my double salchow yesterday, and got it working well, so it's fresh in my mind. Here are my notes, adjusted for the single salchow:

1. Keep your upper body and head really still and squared during the 3-turn (I imagine I'm in a neck brace or body cast!). Holding both the entrance and the exit of the 3-turn for a count of 3, on a nice bent knee.
2. As you exit the 3-turn, bend your skating knee deeper. Stay aligned right over your hips; don't pitch your torso forward or extend your free leg too far behind you.
3. When you feel the edge coming to an end and you feel your weight moving to the front of your blade, do this in one quick motion: push the inside ankle of your skating foot down toward the ice, bending the ankle deeply and getting your weight onto the inside of the ball of your foot. Now spring up, rolling up from the ball of the foot to the toepick, pointing your toes to get maximum spring off the toepick.
4. As you leave the ice, bring the free leg through so that it points in the direction of travel. In other words, if you are traveling south on the takeoff edge (going backwards and looking at the north end of the rink), then as you leave the ice, your free leg should scoop around and cross in front of the takeoff leg and point you towards the south end of the rink. Once you're off the ice and facing the direction of travel, extend the free leg forward and pretend you're doing a big, straight waltz jump, since it's exactly the same as a waltz jump once you're facing forward.
For me, the "scoop" part means leading with the inside of the thigh of my free leg, just above the knee.

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I've been working on the single sal for a long time, its coming together. I have trouble with #2 of what 2toes said above. for me, the key to this was simply gliding along on the LBI edge with my body square but forcing myself to stay right over the skating foot - NOT with my weight somewhere inbetween the 2 legs, yet maintaining a solid edge. I'd practice getting this from a MO or 3. When I could finally do a Sal from a simple back glide, no matter how I got there, then it started to get bigger - no whip mostly kick!
Lyle

I am glad someone posted this question because I this was just shown the single Salchow in class. For some reason after my 3 turn, my free leg drops. I am trying very hard to keep it up, but it's been a struggle. I say to myself-whatever you do, don't touch the ice (with the free foot-right foot) after the 3 turn, so if I succeed in that much, then I end up doing a weird backwars circle. Teacher said now I have developed a bad habit of dropping the leg, so I am really trying hard to keep it up, but it's very very frustrating. And a little update-still don't have that ***** one foot spin yet-not even close. I am pretty much ready to give up!

ballerina, you might be dropping your free hip. Coach said something about this to me re:my 3-turns last lesson--think about holding your free hip high on the 2nd half of the 3-turn. Made a HUGE difference! Not that I can do a salchow or anything. . . haven't tried in a while.

Ice ballerina, have you had your teacher check the blade mounting on your left skate? If your teacher can't see anything else you are doing wrong, it's possible that the blade is mounted too far to the outside or on a diagonal, which puts you on too much of an inside edge. If that isn't the problem, just focus on keeping your shoulders level and keeping your right hip lifted.

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"You don't have to put an age limit on your dreams." - Dara Torres, 41, after her 2nd medal at the 2008 Olympics

you know what is funny? I have read through all the answers to your question on spins SOOOO many times! So I'm glad that I asked a question that you could benefit from!

I can't wait til my next skating session to try the salchow again . . . GREAT descriptions from everyone about takeoff position, etc . . . I think I might be on my way to *getting it!*

Hey ballerina . . . here is a little inspiration for us . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_vgZZ7XJbE

Well thanks everyone. I may just need to get new skates and blades since I am still using the old ridells -the kind that the blade already comes on the skate. I also found this link:

http://www.keyboardcompanion.com/Ric...e/Salchow.html

I might take another private lesson as well. My class is only 30 minutes once a week and we get next to no individual attention


here is another link-I think I can get a good visual of the scooping of the free leg
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN

You've seen my old salchow, then? I never caught the edge or fell, I just did most of the jump in an on-ice spin. I think that I used to have really strong back inside edges and the scooop didn't drop half as much. I was actually scraping that free foot a few months ago, which is when I switched to kneeing the jump.

I'm trying a new off-ice exercise, courtesy of our rink's FS Ballet teacher, to strengthen the hip lift. When I figure it out and decide that it works, I'll post.

Amen, sister! I totally agree, and that's how I jump and teach it now. I really think TEACHING helps me skate better myself because I'm much more fussy these days.
Hilarious. Plus, we all try to not insult each other, so we gently disagree. This is a very nice Board, don'tchathink?

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IceBallerina -(BTW I love the handle )
FWIW - I've been working on 3turns for years and still have problems and Ive been told I have years more work to go, sigh. Anyway, I have recently improved my 3's by concentrating on keeping my ankle tight before and after the turn rather than just during the turn. Sorry if this sounds nebulous but I just feel tension in the ankle and WOW its suddenly much easier to check the three without dropping my free hip. Don't give up, work on something different!
Lyle

I asked the same question a few months back (about getting new skates/blades) and the consensus seemed to be a resounding YES . . . the recreational skates just aren't the greatest for spinning, not much rocker. My break in period was kinda rough with the new boots . . . the higher level boots are VERY stiff . . . but I'm starting to really like them now.

I had a mental block on the salchow for the longest time...what really helped me was having my coach break it down into "chunks" and have me do it at the boards...then also think "backwards waltz jump"!!

After 2-3 weeks of doing the chunks, it all clicked together! So, it was:
-back crossovers,
-3-turn
-step around (simulated jump)
-landing

Now it's my best and most favorite jump!!!

(now if we can just get me to land the loop on one foot!)

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

To get lift for the salchow, the 3 turn has to be as flat as possible after turn.
I have always done the takeoff with a straighter free leg - no knee-ing up, the lift - if done right - should come from the skating leg. I have more tips, if interested, please PM me.





(as a side note, i probably am doing something right as i managed shockingly, to rotate a triple sal in the harness the other day )

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Keep Evolving. "From this moment forward, every voice that told you - You Can't - , has been silenced." - Freedom Writers

Congratulations

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Casey Allen Shobe | http://casey.shobe.info
"What matters is not experience per se but 'effortful study'."
"At first, dreams seem impossible, then improbable, and eventually inevitable" ~ Christopher Reeve

Flat 3-turn...hmmm. So maybe THAT'S my issue. I have a big looping 3-turn entry right now, and I need to do something to make this jump work better.

My coach, while remarkably good (was a principal for Disney on Ice), relies much upon demonstration and not so much on verbal instruction. English is his second language, and does not flow as freely as his skates.

I pick up great ideas here.

Thanks.

And congatulations on the harness triple.

NOW, I have to share my story about how when our instructor was first teaching the salchow . . . and told us (keep in mind, this is a group of 4 adult skaters - who actually LEARNED to skate as adults, so you get the picture) . . . "now, you need to try to keep your free leg straight . . else you may have trouble when you move up to doubles!"

First we were . . .and then . . . well, hey, at least she has high aspirations for us, right??

Oh yes, and I forgot to say . . . CONGRATULATIONS on the triple . . .awesome!!

Anyone notice on the uTube vids that most, but not all, of the skaters had a pretty significant bend at the waist right before takeoff?
Lyle