Do you know that if your knee is in pain even when simple skating, you should stay off twisting action starting from the knee.

Work on lots of stroking & crossovers to work on knee strength & control 1st. Once the pain gets lesser, then maybe try some turning untill progress shows good enough for twist & jumps. I call those days edges days ... just to make myself feel better!

1. --> Balance in straight motion (forward stroking ...)
2. --> Balance in turns using body to start rotating (single or double 3 turns slowing ...)
3. --> Balance with challenge with muiltiple turns & checking on both directions (Twizzles, Brackets, Rockers, counters, ...)
4. --> Upright spins
5. --> Sit spins
6. --> Jumps ... & landings ...

These are just what I've worked out with the physio that might be good for skaters when recovering from knee injuries. The focus was to stablize knee control, test knee reaction to movement & then strengthen. Once your knee starts to wobble quite a bit, rest for a min or 2 for muscles to recover before working on it again.

(If it helps)

Ok It is now Week 5 of my knee the knee is better when I dont do spins and stuff I have a competition coming up. Should I just take a 1 - 2 week or maybe a month of skating because of this Injury? Its fine when I wake up everymorning and everytime I do skating it aggravates it

I've, unfortunately, had a lot of experience with knee injuries. These are COMPLICATED. If you really want to get better then you must go see an orthopedist who specializes in sports injuries.
Lyle

I have they told me to rest it

This thread has got me to think seriously about my knee. I sort of twisted it about a 6-8 weeks ago doing a crappy salchow (on the 3-turn). It still hurts. I'm wondering if it might have been aggravated by my skates, which are too big and not giving me the support I need. I have new skates now and will skate in them starting Sunday.

I wrap it when I skate and it feels better. It's iced when I get home but it aches alot at night. I also wrap it when I work out. I haven't done any heavy leg exercises for fear of aggravating it.

I'm thinking of seeing an ortho or a PT for some help. I don't want it messed up even more (it's my take-off leg) to where I can't compete this year, or skate in the show (in December).

Guess this is the way it works...fix one body part and something else falls apart!!!

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Anyways It is now 5 weeks and the Knee is still hurts after skating, so I have decided to learn how to do Ice Dance in the mean time as it looks it will take a while for this to heal before I can resume jumps... When I wake up every morning its fine, like there is NO PAIN in the knee when walking and then when I go skating. its HELLO KNEE!!! HELLO I"M HERE hmmm yeah

Hey just met up with the physio again and he made noticed that my knee cap tracking is slightly off, and explained to me this is why I might be getting the pain. Does anyone know of any ideas on how to get it better. The physio has asked me to basically tape it up so the knee cap is not going outward that much

If it's tracking too much to the outside, work on strengthening your upper leg muscles and especially the quadriceps.

There are numerous exercises for these that your PT can recommend. But as you do them you must be very conscious of form, as improper form will hinder any improvement.

I believe there are various surgical options but those should probably be a last resort.

Here is a link with more infomation

http://www.webmd.com/hw/raising_a_family/tn7305.asp

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Umm, if it's tracking too much to the outside, then it may not be the quads which are at fault...I have that problem on both knees and the quads are fine - if anything, they're overstrong and pull the kneecap out. (A slight congenital twist in each femur doesn't help...)

It may well be the little muscle at the top of the knee where it meets the inside thigh that needs work. (Think of an experienced cyclist's legs - you know the muscle bulge they get at the top inside of the knee? It's that one. I don't know what it's called.)

The exercise my sports doc gave me for that (backed up by physio) was to attach a light (maybe 0.5 - 1kg) weight to the foot, and in a sitting position raise and lower the leg with the knee locked (but not hyper-extended) and the foot turned out. This turns the target area up to the ceiling, and when you do the exercise properly, you can use your fingers to actually feel the little muscle working. This was a useful tip, as the doc did say that it's really hard to activate this muscle in isolation, and he wasn't wrong!

A variation is to lie the leg with the back of the knee across a folded towel or similar, and rather than lift the leg with the knee locked, think of pushing the knee into the towel with the foot turned out, and raising just the lower leg, rather than lifting the whole leg.

I had to work up to 5 sets of 10, 3 times a day, and I still do them (although not as often as I ought!) to this day. My gym has a machine which works that area too, and I use it every time I go.

One of the other adult dancers at our rink has been having all sorts of problems with her knees, and her osteopath says the source of the problem is actually in her back, which is pulling her out of alignment all the way down....

My own right knee is very sore today, but I have no idea why - just one of those things. Next week, undoubtedly, it will be my left knee, which is the one that normally hurts.

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

But My injury was due from a fall

I will attest that your back can give you knee pain, even if caused by a fall. If you've pressed on your ciatic nerve (runs from your neck right down your legs) you can actually have referred pain anywhere... and you can bruise your ciatic nerve.

My physio has been getting me to do those exercises with a 2kg bag of rice strapped over my ankle. Sit on the edge of the bed and raise the leg.

I had an MRI done on mine this evening and am seeing the orthopaedic surgeon on Thursday, but it looks as though I'm in for an operation to repair mine.

__________________
AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

Ok Physio gave me some exercises to strengthen my Vstus Medialis (Inner Thigh) Muslce to help with the tracking of the knee cap. Has anyone here done these physio exercises and how long did it take for you knee to get back to what it was. My knee is improving very very slowly every week. And its getting so fustrating!!!

Is that the little muscle I described (badly) a few posts up?

It may take a month or so, and it's the type of exercise you will probably need to keep doing to keep the muscles properly strengthened for the knee to track better.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

rf3ray, thought I'd update you on my progress too. We can keep each others knee caps company!

My MRI showed no tear in my meniscus, and therefore no surgery required. However I did totally feel like a moron because I am in total agony at times, and in a lot of pain at best. Doing every day stuff causes me a great deal of pain.

The only thing he could deduce from the MRI was that the back of my patella is jagged, and he thinks that the pain is referred pain? My physio on the other hand, has said this sounds like crap to him... He said what he thinks must have happened is that my patella has popped out, and popped itself back into place, but not in the right place. When I'm moving the jagged bits on the back are catching on either nerves or ligaments and causing the pain.

I don't know how long I'll be able to take this for. I'm back to the physio tomorrow morning, and also the doctor, hopefully for some further advice.

__________________
AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

AW1, a meniscus tear doesn't always show up very well on an MRI. Not sure why, but an MRI can't really be conclusive for a meniscul tear. Or at least, that's what my doctor told me. Have you considered a second opinion?

Yes I have, however this was a work related injury so I'm not paying for it and I'm not sure they will be willing to send me for a 2nd opinion. Interesting you said that because my physio said this morning in a very sarcastic tone "you know an MRI doesn't lie!"

__________________
AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

I wonder why? My (sports med) orthopedist sent me for an MRI to rule out a meniscul tear because the soft tissue injuries don't show up on the xrays. Maybe an MRI is not clear enough to diagnose, only to rule out?

I had continuing knee pain, especially when I skated. The diagnosis was "crepidation of the knee," which makes me feel very old (crepid = decrepit?) just to say. The back of my knee cap, which should be smooth, has some rough spots and bumps that catch as I bend my knee. He put me on physical therapy to strengthen the muscles around the knee (and lose a bit of weight) and a steady diet of anti-inflammatories. What's really helped, which is for my poor achy feet, is Celebrex and cortisone injections.

__________________

Isk8NYC, I have the same rough spots on the back of my knee cap. I can't take anti-inflammatories though as I'm allergic to Aspirin which is used in them. Gosh I hope I don't need to have cortisone injections any time !

__________________
AW1
mum to Miss Lil (6yrs old)
mum to be to #2 due in March 08

I had a cortisone injection in my knee. I'll just leave it at that because I don't want to scare you. But if you ever do need it, just close your eyes as soon as he says cortisone injection.

I've had a number of cortisone injections now. I find it amazing that the doctors don't even hesitate when administering them! It's like a Lufthansa flight: hit the runway and take off!

__________________

When I had a torn rotator (rotater?) cuff injury, I had a cortisone shot and boy! did it help! I was amazed! I would not hesitate to get another one if needed for my shoulder, knee, hip, or anywhere else.

I can't take ibuprofen or aspirin, only tylenol so the cortisone was a relief! Then I had therapy which included iontophoresis and hydrocortisone and later physiotherapy.

I had a small tear which did show up on the MRI but it's an easier area to see than inside the knee (less bone). They now have spiraling-MRI's. don't know if they are any better for knee views though.

__________________
Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

For me, it was that needle that did me in. Sure it helped, but I almost passed out when I saw the needle. I heard that you can only have 2 cortisone injections in the same area before it does some damage. Not sure if that's true, and I don't remember who told me that, so it could have just been one of my friends, or it could have been my doctor.

Excuse me for chimming in but having had a variety of knee problems, I'll share a couple of things.

MRI's can miss menisus tears - and it depends on how good the radiologist is at reading them (or how rushed he is.) Did your own doctor look at the films or just rely on the radiologist's written report. A thorough exam can be more valuable.

Roughness behind the patella is usually referred to as chrondomalacia although a misnomer..... it has various stages of roughness from just a little to looking like crabmeat.

A fall on a knee that already has some degenerative changes (although you may not have had any symptoms per se) reacts differently to trauma than a knee that was totally healthy. A shot of cortisone can help tremendously!

Bone spurs can happen due to a fall or trauma and they can grow out of a patella causing the patella to not track right. There are a variety of patella tracking difficulties. A proper set of x-rays, including a 'sunrise' one where the knee is placed at 45 degrees, should be able to show the patella in various stages and if it is out of the groove at some point.

If at some time the menisus was torn, and many people have it happen without symptoms, the capsule around the knee then has a leak. When trauma happens, just like any other part of the body, there is fluid/swelling. This puts pressure on many of the knee structures and causes pain as the fluid leaks out into the surrounding area, even though you may not see it.

Everyone talks about strengthening the muscles and this is true. But equally important is stretching the IT band, hamstrings, quads, calves, and achilles tendon. It is truly amazing how tight these get when there has been an injury and their tightness contributes to the ongoing pain - especially the hamstrings and the calves. But always warm up for at least 5 minutes before gently stretching these muscles.

As for doctors and PTs, they all have their own strong opinions. I am a big advocate of 2nd opinions and have had to do so myself several times to get the right answer and treatment.

If you want to know and understand more about knees, there is a great website, kneeguru.co.uk, that has been a big help to me. Just thought I would share with you knee people.

Finally, most docs limit cortisone injections to three and at spaced intervals. Relief can be great, but if the problem keeps returning then the underlying pathology needs to be addressed.

Hope this helps someone........