Actually, a judge that has very close ties to the hosting club had this skater in third, with Debbie in first and me in second. Hopefully, that judge will tell the coach of that skater about the lutz ban in pre bronze free.
I actually took the time this morning to re-read the announcement ( I had it with me in my bag. It referred to the USFS Rule book for the Adult Singles requirements for the Adult events, so there's actually no excuse there!

Friday night was interesting also for the Artistic programs... many of the competitors in my group came dressed as if it was a Adult Interp event... UGGH! That makes me cherish that bronze that much better!

__________________
Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

Jazz, I only told my primary coach that I'd signed up for May Day about ten days prior to the competition. I mentioned it to my secondary coach this past Wednesday! (three days before the event!) What they don't know won't hurt them...

__________________
Where are those knives when I need them?
----------------------------------
I need a detachable left foot!

I don't quite get your question. She didn't know because I didn't tell her. (And why would I not be allowed to compete? It's just a local rinky dink competition, so who cares in any event.)

The purpose of this comp was to put out my CoP'ed program for O'dorf, with 3 different spins. The flying camel/catch foot was, well, interesting, It took me a few revs to even find my foot. I probably should not have tried to grab the foot but I was so determined. As I was about to give up, I finally found my free foot!

While some people like having their coach at events, I certainly do not. My coach makes me horribly nervous and I feel horribly pressured. I don't need that. OF course, I probably should not have told her that.

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Don't know if you celebrate Mother's Day in Oz, but methinks someone owes you a big bunch of flowers!

All our show costumes fit (my pants are, as always, too long). Now I have to sew on the buttons and bows (literally) and pick up new tights. Yesterday, I made up a short solo for one of our skaters at the Director's request. When I finished my lessons, she gave me two more to do - my own daughter and one of my brand-new privates! Ah, popularity. Now the trick is to come up with three solos that aren't all the same.

Had a great time skating around, running through the kids' programs.

__________________

It came off in your post as "you're not supposed to be competing at this event and you're sneaking it in anyway." Of course, I also don't see why your coach doesn't want you to compete. I would think most coaches would want their students to compete as much as possible, but that's just me...

Yeah, I know of coaches like that. Of course, they're not MY coaches! (One of the major pluses of my primary coach is he makes sure that I'm as focused and relaxed as possible going into the event. See... he know that I beat myself up enough for both him and secondary coach as is! )

No, you should tell her that!!! She needs to know how you "tick..." It's how she's going to improve as a coach...

Strange... well, if it makes you comfortable... *shrug*

Of course, the other reasons why I can't really hide from my primary coach from a comp is 1) he usually is the one to approach me about competing. (As you already know, I rarely compete...) and 2) he does my hair for comps now!

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

... I know what you mean. My primary coach doesn't know that I'm competing on Memorial Day this year. Or maybe she does and isn't interested. I'm not sure. But yeah, last year in a competition I was having trouble with my flip jump during the four minute warm-up and so she says, "If you can't land it, take it out and put something else in. Right now!" I was like, what are you talking about??? I have to skate in two minutes! I can't put in a new jump right now! And she goes "Well than you'd better LAND THE FLIP!" So needless to say I was a basket case.

Anyway, I can understand where someone would be tempted to... hmm... leave out certain information.

Good luck in your competition.

My hunch is... she knows! Especially knowing how your primary coach and secondary coach talk...

Yeah, I had cases where primary coach is being anal just before a competition. Ask him about wearing my usual gloves at a warm-up for a recent competition!

Trust me! She's a smart woman! She's probably already figured that out and thought your secondary coach would be better at putting you on ice since he's more low-key!

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

My philosophy is that my coach's job is to train me to skate my best, but competing is entirely different.

When I compete I'm trying to do my best and achieve whatever goal I have set for that day, but there's nothing a coach could do to help at that point. I've done enough competitions that I know what I need to do to prepare (yes, occasionally I get an attack of the nerves and start shaking, but again, that's something that I need to tackle, nobody can solve the problem for me), I know when to stretch, how far ahead of time to get my skates on, etc.

Yesterday it turned out that my coach was there (it was a standard-track competition with adult events included) but had an intermediate guy competing his long program on the other surface at the EXACT same time as me. So I talked to him for a bit while I was warming up off-ice, and then I went over to the other rink after I skated and told him what happened. Had he been free at that moment he would have come and watched me skate, but he was busy with someone who *needed* him, and I didn't. Generally, if he's at an event with other skaters I don't mind if he watches my event, but he knows I don't need him to *coach* me at that point.

__________________
Where are those knives when I need them?
----------------------------------
I need a detachable left foot!

All in all whether you have a coach with you or not at a competition is a matter of personal preference.
For me, May Day was having the best of both worlds. The kids at my rink rarely get to see me compete, since it seems that I either do all adult comps or when the rare standard track rolls around, the Adult events are held after the kids are done (at least in my case). So, it was a AWESOME feeling Friday night to have almost all of the kids from my rink and their parents in the stands cheering for me.
Then Saturday, I had my adult skating buddies (the kids had left by then)!
To add to all of it, since I put my last freeskate out the first time by myself, I felt better if the coach is with me this time around. Of course, it was a bit of culture shock to have to have a coach look for me and vice versa.
There's that bill too.....

__________________
Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

But a big difference between that and yesterday was that lutzes were allowed in Pre-Bronze then. IMO, there's a big difference between looking like you might be ready to compete at the next level and putting in an element that is only allowed at the next level (or higher levels). If the woman did a flip, I wouldn't have cared. Doing a lutz in Pre-Bronze is like doing an axel in Bronze or a double in Silver - it's just wrong. If you want to do a certain jump in your program, you need to skate at the level where the jump is allowed.

As for the coach at comp issue, it's an individual decision. A skater needs to do whatever works for them at a comp. When I first started competing, I had a coach with me at all comps, and that was fine b/c I'd just started competing and it was good to have someone orient me to the process (although my coach almost missed my very first comp - long story). Now, I have a different coach and I've only competed a couple of times since switching, and the new coach hasn't come with me to comps. I've never asked her b/c for one, I didn't feel like paying coaching and mileage fees (I spend enough money on this sport as it is) and second, I decided I didn't really need a coach to be with me.

The way I look at it is, my coach's role is teach me how to skate and to prepare me for competitions. By the time I arrive at the rink, there's not much that a coach can tell me that's going to make an immediate impact. And since my comps are not exactly the Olympics or World Championships, a coach's eye during the warm-up is not that critical. I always get the video of my performance, so I can see for myself how many revs I got on such-and-such spin, or how high a certain jump was. What I do in comp pretty much mirrors what I do in practice, so if I had a problem on a jump or a spin, it's usually what we're working on anyway, so there's no great puzzle to solve or analyze.

I'm very grateful for the support of skating friends like sk8pics, Terri, Loops, flo, and others who have cheered me on, held music and other materials, calmed me down before I skated, etc. Compared to when I had a coach with me, I find the current situation to be less stressful - not b/c my coach put pressure on me, but b/c the program is never as good as it is during practice, thanks to nerves, and w/o a coach there, there aren't as many external expectations. Of course, I tell my coach how I did and report on elements I had problems with, so we can work on improving those for the next comp.

And like Terri, I had a cheering contingent of kids from my rink, who had competed earlier in the day (actually, one of them did the improv comp for her level (well, they called it Interpretive, but it was really Improv) that took place right after I arrived, so I got to see her skate...and win!). They hung around to watch me and another Pre-Bronze skater from our club and it was great to have them there.

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

Yup! And sometimes it's probably not pragmatic to have your coach "always" there. And I'm starting to get pretty good at prepping myself for a warmup at competition, though I will say when the nerves get to me enough that I end up leaving my brain with my bag in the dressing room. That's when the coach (or at least a knowledgable friend) is very helpful... I guess I'm not at that point yet, since I rarely compete. Probably once I get a bit more competition experience I will be able to forgo the coach and put myself out (or have a friend play coach or something...) but I'm not at that point yet...

Of course, like I said, it's tough at times to forgo the coach since my comps are (usually) at my home rink, he's the one that brings up the subject of my competing (if I do compete, it's usually just to humor him and get some practice on my jumps and footwork and experience competing), and he does my hair! Probably if I was at a comp where it would be hard for my coach to get to, then I probably will forgo having him there.

So this skater did a waltz-toe loop, toe loop, sal and a lutz, as well as a camel-sit (which is allowed)???? That's really weird, if that's the case, since it's not exactly an easy jump to do... but like I said, there might be other reasons behind her competing at Pre-Bronze FS. Could be that she didn't pass her Moves test. (And we all know what kind of a HEADACHE that Bronze Moves test is... )

Look, I don't support this skater for doing an element that's not allowed at her current level. I certainly hope that a judge has approached that skater's coach and talk to him/her. I also think if she's doing a lutz and a good camel-sit that she should be competing at Bronze. All I am doing is hypothesizing what might have happened that still gave her the Gold despite that no-no lutz jump.

Are there any judges on this board that can shed light on how much of a deduction the skater gets under the 6.0 system for skating an element that's of a higher level than what's allowed in the well balanced requirement? Or is this skater automatically disqualified?

The last skater I've seen doing this definitely placed behind the guy whose highest jump was a nice loop, but it was b/c he did TWO no-no jumps at his level and didn't do any of the other elements needed for his event. (This was a Bronze event and the guy did a double and an axel.) But he was NOT disqualified! He just took a couple of BIG deductions and there were big enough that in the views of some judges that he didn't make up for it in his other elements. (And yes, you better believe that guy's coach got a talking to from the Referee!!! )

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

(Back to the original thread...WHEW!!!)

MAJOR VICTORY!!!

It's Mother's Day!!! And the weather is VERY WARM here in my neck of the woods!!! This combination for some reason chased all but the very dedicated regulars (like me!!!) off the ice! I had LESS THAN 10 people (ice guard included) on the ice with me at my weekend public session in an Olympic sized rink!!! You better believe I took advantage of it and put it towards doing some much needed run thrus and some spot work on my Bronze Moves!!! WOO HOO!!! (I remembered at least two run thrus. One at the beginning of the session and one towards the end of my practice time when I feel I was doing my best back crossovers...)

And yes, my Bronze moves are coming along again!! The more warmed up my legs and lower back were, the better the moves... well, at least for the first hour that was true.. then...

DEFEAT!!!

Too tired. I hit the point where I couldn't do any more RFI mohawks w/o killing myself. That's usually when I call it a day!!! (And I was saved by the ice cut.) Didn't bother doing spins and jumps. Too tired!!! (And I still had to go to the gym for my 40 minute cardio on the elliptical trainer afterwards...got a God awful spare tire to lose. )

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

She also did a flip jump, but 2-footed it. She definitely looked like she could be a bronze-level skater. In fact, I thought that was the bronze event as I was stretching on the side and I saw her lutz jump.

AFAIK, the judges have these worksheets in front of them:
http://www.usfsa.org/content/Acc_200...Worksheets.pdf
It's a 0.1 on each mark for each illegal element.

At one comp, in a silly fit of having too much momentum, I did a lutz/loop/loop/loop, and one judge definitely dinged me for it.
From what I read, "the number of jumps included in a combo or sequence is free." But these sheets clearly state that "Max. number of jumps in combo/sequence is 3."

These sheets came in handy when a pairs judge was explaining why she took off points when Loops and I skated up to gold pairs and left out a side-by-side single jump.

I keep these worksheets at my ready. Of course, they wil be changing come September.

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

KEWL!!! Thanks NoVa!!!

(The sheet doesn't mention how much of a deduction is a two footed landing... . Isn't that a mandatory deduction? If so, how much of a deduction is it??? 0.1?)

__________________
Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

[QUOTE=jazzpantsUmmm... Nova... how could your coach NOT know that you're competing at May Day. [/QUOTE]

Hey Nova--

Nice to know I'm not the only one who just enters competitions without telling the coach.

I've done this several times and only told my coach AFTER the competition that I competed and how it went. I don't need a coach to tell me what to do at a competition, I've been doing them for years. I don't even like having a coach at AN... except when we still did figures... then it was nice to have her stand at the boards right where my long axis was.

Of course, if it's a local event, and she has other skaters, there's no graceful way to dodge it.... but she knows I put enough pressure on myself, I don't need her there to tell me what to do. At PCAS she was there (mostly because it had been a while since she had seen me skate in a costume), and I basically had her throw my cache of toys on the ice for my skating buddies while I warmed up.

My coach doesn't usually care if I do events without her even knowing I'm competing... Well, there was ONE time several years ago, she cared -- when one of the other coaches told her I skated at an event before I had a chance to tell her I had competed. (But 1. It was nice to have a witness since that was the best I EVER skated in competition up to that point and 2. that he could and did say good things about my skating rather than "What the heck was your student doing competing at Vacaville this weekend? She looked like *$!#.") I figured no one would see our event since it was scheduled to start at 9:30pm.. and the competition was running about 45 minutes later. She did say at the beginning of my next lesson... "so I heard you were off competing again....." We both had a good laugh.

I tell our coaches when we are competing, and require them to prepare us to the best of their ability, but no longer ask them to accompany us to competitions - we can put ourselves on the ice, and coaches get far more nervous than their skaters do! I wish my coach didn't have to be there when we tested - last time, he was like "Remember this, remember that," and I was going spare, while Husband's coach was chatting about the cricket or something..... know which I'd prefer!

And although I'm not a coach, I have been acting coach for Husband and Other Woman at Oberstdorf last year, and shall be putting Husband on the ice for his first-ever free skating programme on Friday, and I know it's far worse for the coach!

All the same, I quite hope ours will come to the British Adult Championships this year, so he can see the current standard. But our rink is fielding three Elementary couples, all with different coaches, so at least one of them should come!

__________________
Mrs Redboots
~~~~~~~~
I love my computer because my friends live in it!
Ice dancers have lovely big curves!

Thanks for the link, NoVa! At any rate, the judges had the info in front of them and like I posted yesterday, hopefully the coach will be told about the lutz ban (as well as being told to move the skater up!).

__________________
Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

Thanks for the info, NoVa. I didn't see the entire program - all I saw was the camel-sit, a sal, and the now-infamous lutz. Geez, with a flip, a lutz, and a camel-sit, this skater should definitely have competed in Bronze. And the jumps I saw were fairly high (for Bronze level) and she had good speed and flow across the ice. If I wanted to compete against skaters doing those elements, I would have competed Bronze - I didn't.

Given that it was a club comp, she could have competed in Bronze as long as she passed Pre-Bronze FS (skating up). It's possible that she's way behind in her testing and hasn't gotten through the Pre-Bronze tests yet, who knows. But whatever level she decided to compete at, she and her coach should have come with a program with elements allowed at the level.

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!