Hi Sal! So nice to hear your voice, again! About participation levels dropping, because of testing--just a few thoughts:

First, in "reality" there are not that many more dance teams that compete at Adult Nationals as there are Pair Teams, actually (hold on let me look the stats--I have the AN Dallas brochure here.) Okay, 22 pair teams (with one withdrawl) and the dancers had 30 teams. That's not that big of a difference. With that in mind, participation isn't dropping as a result of the dancers having to take dance tests to qualify for their appropriate categories.

This entire mess with the pair testing system began a little over ten years ago when there was thought not to be enough teams to create a competition. So, skaters were grandfathered from various kids of ways, and all the pairs comepted in one big competition called "Adult Pairs." As of, I think three years ago, Adult Pair Skating had grown enough in numbers that the USFSA was able to split our competitive structure to mirror everyone else (dancers and singles) into Bronze, Silver, Gold, Masters. As we saw in Dallas there were enough pair entries to make all 4 competitions happen. The purpose of the Adult Pairs Database (not the Website) was to show that show the we were growing in numbers. To date we have 38 actively skating teams (26 of whom are now represented on the website.) And, Adult Pairskating is, in deed, growing in interest, which is why the Championship Pairs event was ammended.

Okay, having said that and with the understanding that some teams will disolve (just like in dance) but that new teams will continue to form, I'd like to say that I think the argument of participation dropping, because of testing is an old and out-dated argument. I really believe that the reverse is now true. That is, that if the pairs testing/competition structure had some logic to it that you wouldn't see such disparity within competitive levels, and that this might actually inspire more people to try pairs and form teams. I'm not afraid that participation will drop at all. In fact, I believe the reverse is true and that, especially, pair skaters who show such tanacity to even attempt the discipline at all will find that they are very excited by the challenge of testing up to their appropriate level for pairs with moves then a pair test. Pairsman2 and I have been through the entire structure and it was hard (we failed many, many tests along the way) but, it is doable (again, we both work full-time, too.) I have to tell you that the challenge has inspired me...I also have to be honest and say that at the beginning I whinned about it, too. But you know what? I'd do it all over again given a choice not to do it, or to do it.

I write this looking forward to testing tomorrow. I am testing the Intermediate Moves, and then about an hour latter Pairsman2 and I will be taking the Intermediate Pairs test with hopes to become Master Pairs. We are so excited about taking these tests, you have no idea...!!!

Ok lovepairs, you've convinced me. I agreed with you 99% anyway and was just worried about the participation thing. But I think you're right. In considering how I've felt about being pairs eligible along the way, I know I would have taken whatever test I needed to. And if that were a pairs test, then I'd have been there.

I think my bigger hangup is that you can't compete pairs at a lower level than the highest partners freestyle level. THIS is what I think may keep some people out of pairs.

Tim

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
People dream of flying, birds dream of skating.

Okay, are we all done arguing already ??? Sheesh!

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

No, we're not! Go away!!! LOL!!!

Seriously... guys!!! Take it offline!!! And actually, what's changed is changed now! I mean we know that this isn't going to please everyone. I'm certain NOT happy with the change for Bronze spins, but I deal with it!!!

So...with all the love in the world for you guys... SHUT UP AND SKATE!!!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Dear Jazzpants,

I hope you will take no offense, but many of us had to suffer listening to people argue to death exactly how many rotations are now in a spin. We never asked anyone to take their conversation off line, or to stop talking about it. Hope everyone will show each other respect, and allow the conversations on these threads to play themselves out natuarally, and never ask anyone to leave.

Seriously, I am enjoying reading lovepairs' and everyone else's comments.
(And we all had to suffer thru the interminable pre-bronze discussions.)

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

In that we (my partner and I) are beginning our adult pairs odyssey, I'm finding the discussions to be healthy, interesting and quite relevant. I realize there may be few in my exact position, but the posts have been very helpful to me and there have been good point made by all the posters on the subject.

Kelton

Nova,

You tell 'em boyfriend...kiss, kiss, kisses.

InsideAxel, nice to meet you. Would you and your partner like to have an "Athlete's Profile" page of your own on: www.adultpairskating.com ?
We would all love to have your team represented!

Best,
Lovepairs

LoopLoop and Nova, it has been fun arguing back and forth about this, and even though we disagree about a lot of stuff--I'm so glad that we can all remain Pairs Friends! Will we be seeing you in Hackensack?

Lovepairs, I'll ask her and see!

Kelton

Okay, but is some of the pair stuff relevant to GC? Is this something that can be at least taken to another thread of its own?

Discussing about this thread is all fine and all. The problem is that it's getting dangerous close to being a full blown WWIII here... and that is what I want to take offline...

Well, NoVa, if you want a healthy discussion about pairs, you gotta be willing to take the Pre-Bronze at AN discussion too! Fair's fair!!! (And yes, I'm still pissed off about it! But I'm not going there since this thread is about GC.)

No offense taken, lovepairs!!! I understand. (And I'll forward your website and email to an Adult Silver Pairs team that skates at my rink too. And oh, yes! Good luck to you and pairsman2 on your test!)

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Um, I think you were a bit more than an innocent bystander to that discussion, no?

You know, NoVa (since you brought that thread up), given your lengthy posts on the importance of passing Bronze moves, it might be nice to offer some sort of recognition when someone you know passes that test.

There, I said my peace.

Lovepairs and Pairman, good luck on your tests tomorrow!

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Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

I did congratulate MusicSkateFan!

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

AHEM!!! You know who she's talking about NoVa.... (And be careful, NoVa. My secondary coach says that my perimeter forward crossovers pattern is looking pretty darn good now. I'd love to see yours soon... )

BTW: I'm on the fence about the pairs thing too...

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

Thank you, DebbieS! We'll let you know how it turns out.

Best,
Lovepairs and Pairsman2

No Hack' for me this year. I will have just gotten back from Europe, and a much-needed break/rest will be in order.

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

I get so behind reading SF. Then I made the mistake of trying to read this thread. My word! Look at all that's going on about GC!!!!!

Without stepping on any toes, as I see the opinions coming down on both sides of the pair thing, as well as all the other rule changes, is USFS planning on changing any of this soon? I guess we're all going to have to adapt! RIGHT?! I noticed even the ice dance test rules had changed, and I'm planning on testing ice dance in 9-06. Oh well. Guess I better get crackin' as you can't count on that 3rd pattern any more to even out any glitches and get you a "pass".

Yes this is off topic. And not really about GC. But it was in this thread. This is what my beady little eyes noticed : I recall NoVa being quite persnickety about allowing Pre Bronze skaters into Adult Nats from (correct me if I'm wrong...and I could be .... ) previous threads.

Sure looks like you, NoVa, might have overlooked an acquaintance's accomplishment (not "musicfan", appears you congrated on that)! After all the .... stuff .... about skaters having to prove themselves....Bronze MIF being so important. It does seem congrats are in order, but don't let me browbeat you! LOL!!! Of course, maybe you congratted in private and I don't know that.

Sorry about that , especially since we don't talk much (I don't talk much, period, on SF...no time) it's just that when I passed Bronze moves, I thought it was a huge accomplishment. I'm glad you weren't there to non congratulate me! LOL!!!

NoVa,
I have two things to say to you. First of all, I think you're attitude about how important it is to have passed the moves tests to compete at AN is hysterical, given your lack of underpush on forward crossovers and the fact that it took you THREE tries to pass Silver moves!!

Second of all.....


** *****!!!!!!
[Edited for insulting language - Isk8NYC]

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Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

And yet I did pass my moves and do qualify for AN unlike, um, you, who apparently spends more time *talking* and *typing* and *complaining* about skating rather than skating itself.

ETA: Not only that, but forward crossovers are hardly even on the silver moves test (they are at the beginning of the 8-step, which--looking at all my moves sheets here--I passed each time). To be sure, I first took this test in July '04, took it again in Sept. '04, then passed it in Nov. '04. That's only a 4-month span. Not too shabby. It was the FO-BI 3-turns in the field that did me in the first 2 times (the dreaded BI 3's).

And honestly, you (pre-bronze) giving me advice on skating would be like me (silver level) giving advice to a master-level skater. It's useless and gratuitous.

Sorry for the ire and calumny.

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Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Nova,

We are going to really miss you and LoopLoop at Hackensack--you sure you guys can't be there, because it was so much fun last summer!

Okay, have a really great skate in Oberstdorf, and if you feel energized by your skate in Germany, then come play with us in Hackensack. It might be good for you and LoopLoop to have some "non-pressured" playtime on the ice together. Think about it--it would be so much fun to have you two there!!!

Have a really great time in Europe!

It would be great to go back for a 3rd year in a row. Unfortunately, I have personal bizness that I need to take care of here. (Not only that, but since I work for a weekly magazine and the workweek after the camp is the Fourth of July week, I have tight deadlines and will probably have to work late on that last Friday in June, thereby complicating my travel plans.)

I am happy to report that Loops and I had a fabu skate session tonight.
While I'm not to sure about our sbs double rockers, our throws were high, our pair spins were fast and furious and centered (and the postions we achieved! who knew we could do some of those?! Dmitriev, eat your heart out! ), and our sbs spins were nicely in sync (and without ever having taken a pair test! Hee hee hee ). It's nice to know the well has not run dry. ...

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Sorry to use this thread for this but...

Terri C - Pls clear out your Inbox!!! Thank you!

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Cheers,
jazzpants

11-04-2006: Shredded "Pre-Bronze FS for Life" Club Membership card!!!
Silver Moves is the next "Mission Impossible"
(Dare I try for Championship Adult Gold someday???)

Thank you for the support, you guys!!!

I'd say this thread has been pretty much done to a burnt finish. I can't tell the jokes from the insults, and one particular post was reported as inappropriate by another member.

I'll close the thread for now and you can tease/insult each other via PM or other communication methods. Just as an FYI: inside jokes don't come across well to outsiders.

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