Thanks, Skater8...we really appreciate your support.

You know, I really don't think electricity is the problem here. Most Hockey boxes are wired already for announcing purposes, and usually that's were the rinks sound system comes out of, too. The real barrier is if anyone thinks it is important enough for testers to be able to read their comments. I think even the judges would be happy to upgrade from handwriting, too. Here's a dirty little secret: rinks and clubs are not as impoverished as they all lead us to believe they are. Anyway, this effort would mostly come out of the USFSA, and believe me, with all of the dues that we pay in membership, if this was really thought to be an important and necessary step toward the future, they would do it, which they probably will. I bet (hope) in the next five years we don't see anymore chicken scratch.

passed:



moves-
pre-pre
pre
pre-juv
juv

freestyle-
pe-pre
pre
pre-juv
juv


failed:


juvenile MIF
intermediate MIF (will try to pass again in July I think)




so grand total: 10

total tests tried:29
total tests passed:23
total tests failed:6
total wasted money on the failed tests: $110


read through if you have a lot of time on your hands
tests passed :
freeskate:
starskate
~preliminary
~jr bronze
~sr bronze
~jr silver
competitive
~pre novice
skills
~preliminary
~jr bronze
~sr bronze
~jr silver
~sr silver
dance
~preliminary dances: dutch waltz, canasta, baby blues
~jr bronze dances:fiesta, swing, willow waltz
~sr bronze dances: ten fox, 14 step, european
~jr silver dances: keats foxtrot, rocker, american, harris tango

tests failed :
freeskate:
~pre novice (1)
skills:
~jr bronze (1)
dance:
~jr bronze dances: fiesta (2 )
~sr bronze dances:european (1)
~jr silver dances: harris tango(1)
~sr silver dances: paso (1)

__________________
dont eat me

I think I've been pretty lucky so far:

MITF:
Pre-Pre: P
Pre: P
Bronze: P
Silver: P
Gold: F, P with reskate
Intermediate: I'll let you know next week

FS:
Pre-Pre: P
Pre: P with reskate
Pre-Bronze: P
Bronze: P with reskate
Silver: P with reskate

Dance:
Prelim: P, P, P
Pre-Bronze: P, P, P
Bronze: P, P... I'll let you know how the Ten Fox went next week

So that's 17 for 18, with two coming up.

I hate testing. I don't know why I do it.

Remember, it's a retry, not a failure. And I don't mean that as a euphemism--I mean that I'm sure that in both of those tests, there were good things that the judges saw, and good on you for getting out there and testing!

__________________
Ask me about becoming a bone marrow donor.
http://www.marrow.org
http://www.nmdp.org

Well, because of ice costs some clubs do lose money on test sessions sometimes, sometimes in the hundreds or thousands of dollars.

__________________
Ask me about becoming a bone marrow donor.
http://www.marrow.org
http://www.nmdp.org

You would be surprised how savvy (sp?) management all around could fix the leak. It's a business just like any other with bottom lines and overheads. Several rinks and clubs are beginning to realize this and bring in management consultants to fix the problem.

I just overheard a conversation by a board member at a rink telling how a consultant devised a way for a rink to save $40,000 annually just by the way they re-thought their lighting system. This is just one example among many. Do you know how much money could be saved annually just by keeping the those small doors to the ice closed after you step on the ice? Thousands of dollars. Were there is a will there is a way, and, perhaps, some of this money can be invested in laptops for judges, so that we can actually read the critiques for which we are paying. Okay, I'll shut up now.

...and some clubs and rinks are actually MORE impoverished than most members think. One of the greatest challenges with implementing things like IJS or the laptop program, as you suggest, is that it is an expensive, logistical nightmare for many smaller local clubs--to the point where some clubs would have to fold altogether and some skaters would simply have to quit because there would no longer be any more freestyle. That would certainly be the reality of the situation for me.

In the past, I have asked (with my coach) a judge to clarify their comments when I received test papers with illegible marks. It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do to ask the judge what s/he wrote on your paper. Judges are generally friendly people, and are glad to clarify, especially if it's simply a matter of not being able to read the comments (they aren't so friendly if you are contesting their comments, though). I've also asked the test chair or test assistant to show me the original copy of my test paper when the reason why I couldn't read the copy in the first place was that the copy machine did not print the text dark enough. Most judges use pencil, which doesn't show up that well on copy machines. (Why pencil? Well, so they can erase those nasty comments during your reskate and write other ones, of course. ) Usually the original copy is more legible, and I could re-copy those marks on the back of my own copy. Either of these options seems to be a much more sensible, low-tech, and personal solution to the chicken scratch problem. And it wouldn't endanger other clubs financially who have nothing to do with your test.

I would like to say, though, that I am sorry about your frustrations about your test, and I agree that you should expect to receive meaningful comments. Since I am testing this weekend, I feel your pain pretty acutely (especially since I know that there's a pretty good chance that I might not pass my Intermediate moves). Testing is never fun, and I understand that we all feel entitled to good comments since it's such an expensive and excruciating process. But increased technology does not necessarily mean you will get better comments.

I'm also not sure about how much you are paying in USFS dues, but I thought that they only took 35 dollars a year, anyway. From what I've heard, a big chunk of USFS's revenue right now comes from a fat contract that they have with ABC Sports, which they will likely lose after 2007 given the declining popularity of figure skating. Anyway, I foresee and increase in dues without any major change in what services are offered.

Sorry I got on a soapbox. Having worked with tight finances and the rising costs of ice, it is hard to hear other skaters accuse clubs and rinks of just sitting pretty in piles of cash. I wish we had piles of cash. It would certainly make things easier.

While I don't think EVERY Club is truly poor, I have been an officer of a few clubs that really were paying ice bills month-to-month with collected fees. My first exposure to Finance in the real world was learning that the skating club had to front the first 3 months ice rental monies before the season began and the dues/fees were paid! Having a bank balance can mean having good cash flow and having the Club run with less effort on the part of the volunteers. As for the $40k/year savings, usually those savings come AFTER the rink invests $125k in the new lighting/electrical system, up front. That way, the investment pays for itself after several years. (Most salespeople have it work out to 5 or less, so it fits in with the "Five Year Plan" of the rink.)

That said, I was a member of a different Club that had so much money left over at the end of one year, they had custom skate bags made and surprised the members! The adults were up in arms, feeling they overpaid for the entire season, would have preferred a credit for next season. Plus, they really didn't like the fancy-pants bags!

I am sorry about your tests. Hang tough -- I'm sure you'll nail it on the retry!

__________________

Give us all the details on your Intermediate MIF test next week! (fingers crossed). I am going to take it in the next few months myself, so I'd be interested in hearing if the judges really hold you to higher standards than the Adult Gold test. Good luck!!

Please be sure that you are meeting the primary foci for the Intermediate MIF test compared to the Current foci for the Adult Gold Test (if you took the Adult Gold test before this changed, as I recall, it wouldn't have differed other than if your judges were judging your Adult Gold MIF to more of an Adult standard vice a standard-track MIF standard)

For example, under the [u]current[/b] Adult Gold MIF test, the primary focus for the power circles (F&B) and the Inside Slide Chasse sequence is "Continuous Flow and Strength," whereas for the Intermediate MIF test, the primary focus for the power circles (F&B) is Power, and the primary focus for the Inside Slide Chasse sequence is Edge quality, with a secondary focus of "Extension".

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Not to get this thread totally off-topic, but I thought that was an error in the rulebook/test sheet that stemmed from substituting the power 3's for the slide chasses on the Silver test - when the forms were first changed with the move names, the primary and secondary foci for the slide chasses remained on the test sheet as the foci for power pulls - edge quality and extension. That was eventually changed to continuous flow and strength (for power pulls) but for some reason, that focus was also transferred to the Gold test sheet for the slide chasses.

If anyone has an older Silver MIF test sheet, perhaps they could confirm this, but I'm pretty sure the foci for the slide chasses were edge quality and extension, like they are on the standard test. To me, it doesn't make sense that a move would have a completely different focus (other than the substitution of continuous flow for power) on the adult track than it does on the standard track.

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

When slide chasses were on the silver MIF, the prmary focus was on edge quality, secondary focus was extension.

When the slide was moved to gold MIF, the primary focus became continuous flow and strength (there is no secondary focus).
http://www.usfigureskating.org/conte...orrections.pdf
http://www.usfigureskating.org/conte...orrections.pdf

My understanding for this focus change was that "continuous flow and strength" was a harder skill than "edge quality and extension." (The latter does not inherently imply speed.)

__________________
Doubt whom you will, but never yourself.
"Do what you love, and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
-Haha, I've *arrived*! I am listed as a reference on Wikipedia.

Honestly, my coach has always looked for POWER and acceleration in the power circles. The first time I took (and failed) the Gold test, I was told that I needed more power in my CW forward circles, so I figure that regardless of what wording the rulebook was using, the judges were looking for power. Hopefully, the 6 extra months of work I've put into this has helped develop more power anyway (although honestly, I think that working on my 14-step has helped more concretely in the posture and power department).

My problem is that I tend to chicken out in front of judges and do things differently than what I do in practice.

Tests. Evil. I'll let you all know how things go.

Pennybeagle,

Really, good luck with your upcoming test! I'm okay, and have totally recovered and will test the Intermediate Moves, again (for the 4th time) this coming fall.

With better technology, or a requirement for clearer handwriting, by no means was I asking, or hoping for "better comments," but rather just legible ones--that's all. Still think the problem can be solved and still think funds could be made available to solve it one way, or another. Below, is an example of exactly what I talking about in terms of "poor management/bad decision making." Take a hundred of these poorly managed decisions add them up and walla you have some funds to do important things with:

Thanks Ics8NYC, I'm fine now. Thank you for pointing out the above. I understand that many rinks are in big financial trouble, but I still believe that with really good management things can always be turned around--what can I say, I tend to be optomistic that when there are things that are obviously "wrong" like not being able to read the comments that you've paid for that things like this can be fixed.

33 tests total (not counting ISI - I think I did alpha through delta and FS1 and FS2)

Tests passed:
Figures: 6 (prelim, 1, 2, 3, adult bronze, adult silver)
prelim, 1, 2 passed before 1981
FS: 5 (prelim, juv, adult bronze, silver, gold)
prelim, juv passed before 1981 - before pre-pre and pre-juv existed
MIF: 5 (pre-b, bronze, silver, gold, int)
all passed since 2001
Dance: 12 (prelim, pre-b, b, pre-silver)
all passed since 2001

Tests marked retry - 5 total:
Figures: 2 (first try at 2nd, 3rd)
FS: 0
MIF: 2 (two tries at Gold MIF)
Dance: 1 (foxtrot)

Sara

-- edited after testing on 5/21:
My grand total to date: 21 tests -- 23 tests
tomorrow AM I'll add 2 figures tests.

17 -- 19 Passes:
MIF - preprelim, prelim, silver
FS - prebronze, bronze, silver
DANCE - 3 prelim, 3 prebronze, 3 bronze, 2 presilver
FIGURES -- prelim, adult bronze

4 Retries:
1 silver MIF
1 silver FS
2 TenFox

I'm pretty good at deciphering the scribbled comments. Btwn my coach and me, we've always been able to figure it out . . . eventually. Now reading the signatures is a much lower success rate.

I was quoting directly from the posted test forms, not the rulebook.

In any case, the expectation for any primary or secondary focus is going to be tougher on a higher level test (standard or adult) than on the lower level test. For example, the expectations for Power on a Preliminary MIF test is much different than the expectations for Power on a Junior MIF test.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

Right, that I understand. What was confusing me was that the foci for the slide chasses on the Int test are edge quality and extension, but on the Gold test, the focus is continuous flow. But when the slide chasses were on the Silver test, they had the same foci as the move did on the Int test, so why the change? I guess NoVa could be right in that power/continuous flow is harder to achieve and the focus reflects that the Gold test should be harder than the Silver test, but the Int test has an even higher passing standard than Gold, and it's still edge quality and extension. Every other move on the adult test has the same focus/foci as the move does on whatever standard track test it's on (except for where continuous flow was substituted for power), so I thought that the change in foci for the slide chasses was a mistake.

Oh well, it's going to be a looooong time, if ever, before I work on Gold moves. I need to get those 3-turns in the field first!

__________________
Terri C is a Bronze lady!
Gold Moves, here I come!

I think there is a mistake on the test form -- everywhere that the old form said "Power" became continuous flow and strength. Anyway, hopefully this will be cleared up. We haven't seen a lot of Adult tests since this was changed -- seems clear as mud right now!!

__________________
Is Portland the only city with it's own ice-dance website? http://www.pdxicedance.net/

The Adult Gold Moves and the Intermediate Moves both have the same passing average, which is 3.2 They are virtually the same test, although the Intermediate has Pattern #3, which used to be the equivelant of the "evil doer" pattern #5 that they took out of Adult Gold Moves. All things being equally they are almost identical tests.

Here in lies the difference: the judges will give you the benefit of the doubt on the Adult Gold Moves. On the standard track Intermediate Moves, they want you to book it, MOVE, Speed, Power, Confidence, Placement...they want you to look like you have total control over these things. Pairsman2 passed it the second time around with a few form breaks, but they passed him, because he went out there and attacked the thing and skated it "almost" with an air of arrogence (not really, but you know what I mean...) Same passing average between the two tests and mostly all of the moves are the same, but they are holding you to a higher standard. Believe me, I know...no matter how much I practice and improve, it seems never to be good enough.

Foot note: then you also have to hope that you don't have a judge on your panel who has a prejudice against adult testing standard.

FWIW:
Pre Pre Moves- Pass
Pre- Bronze Freestyle- retried twice (those two were very negative experiences with judges!), passed the third time.
Bronze Freestyle (before the Adult Moves kicked in) retried FOUR TIMES!!!
Pre Bronze Moves ( grandfathering was not a option per my coach) passed
Bronze Moves- retried in March, hope to pass this summer!

So for *some people* that think I'm not trying hard enough, too bad!

__________________
Adult Nationals, 2009 "The Time of My Life"

Pre-bronze FS: pass
Bronze FS: pass
Silver FS: pass
Pre-pre FS: pass
Prelim FS: pass

Pre-pre MIF: pass
Prelim MIF: retry-pass
Pre-juv MIF: pass
Juv MIF: retry-retry-pass
Gold MIF: retry-retry-pass

__________________
Where are those knives when I need them?
----------------------------------
I need a detachable left foot!

Actually the Passing average for Adult Gold MIF is 3.0, which is the equivalent of Juvenile MIF. Passing total for Adult Gold is 18.0 (compared to Juv MIF 12.0 passing total), though, because there's more on the Adult Gold MIF than the 4 moves on the Juvenile MIF test.

__________________
American Waltz... Once, Twice, ???? ...

Q: How many coaches does it take to fix Jen's Dance Intro-3 Problems
A: 5 and counting...

[QUOTE=lovepairs]The Adult Gold Moves and the Intermediate Moves both have the same passing average, which is 3.2 They are virtually the same test, although the Intermediate has Pattern #3, which used to be the equivelant of the "evil doer" pattern #5 that they took out of Adult Gold Moves. All things being equally they are almost identical tests.

Actually, the Adult Gold test has a passing standard of 3.0, that is why the Intermediate test in the cross over point instead of Novice.

Should have seen Jenlyon's post before I posted the exact same thing.

FWIW, I passed my Intermediate moves in December with a very picky panel of judges (2 Gold level judges who have failed MANY Intermediate tests and a Silver judge who is a Gold level dance judge and is looking for that soft dancer action). The difference between a retry and a pass (in my opinion) on a marginal test is the first move. If you set a really good tone on that first move, show a lot of confidence, speed, flow, and body alignment, the judges have a different attitude looking at the rest of the test. My coach worked that first move TO DEATH (it was one of my two weaker moves) after a critique from a very detail oriented judge, and even with one set of crappy brackets (the other three were pretty good, but I was 2 inches from a reskate on that set as I almost put my foot down), they had seen four very strong moves up to that point and were more inclined to give me the benefit of the doubt by that point.