Being new to skating (through DD), I've read a few times that it's an advantage to be short, and I'm just curious about why that is??

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Utterly clueless parent of 5 y/o beginner

If the skater is a singles skater, height is a disadvantage for several reasons. The shorter the skater, the lower the center of gravity, which makes spins and jumps easier. The more compact the body, the easier it is to rotate a jump. Plus, a taller person would weigh more, making the height for jumping harder to achieve.

For pairs, obviously the girl needs to be very small and very light for the lifts & throws.

Dancers, however, do tend to be taller, as the long leg lines are more important in that discipline.

taller also can be perceived as less "dainty" and "graceful"; there is more to "see" thus mistakes can be more easily seen (I've noted that widestepping on a mohawk is much easier to see if the widestep is on a tall girl with a long stride, for example).

For dance, yes, dancers can be taller, however, when you are actually - tall - it can be hard to find anyone to partner you, as many male skaters fall in the lower range of the male height spectrum - and you do want some variance in height.

My 5'9" daughter struggles with her height on a lot of levels - harder to jump and learn jumps due to the need to put "more" size in the air, plus the centre of gravity issue noted already; hard to find someone to partner her for dance - and she also feels like a giant among the 5'5"-and-under set. Harder to find dresses ... harder to find tights ... skates in her size aren't always in stock ... same with the blades ...

On the plus side, her camel spin looks amazing, her ice coverage when stroking is impressive, and when she jumps "big" - well, the height, power and distance are very impressive!

Taller can present much better lines than shorter skaters. Lucinda Ruh was relatively tall and her positions were better than about 99.99999% of skaters out there, even the ones who were winning gold medals. It's not about appearing dainty or elegant... Long, lean lines can do that much better than compact, somewhat muscular bodies (how many 5'4" models do you know?). That's often a general opinion in Gymnastics, but has been proven untrue time and time again.

It's about physics, and the first reply is spot on.

You have more length to pull in when you rotate in the air, you have to be more powerful because you will require more height in jumps (think Victoria Volchkova vs. Tara Lipinski), and any adjustments in spins will affect the spin a lot more on a taller person, and it will take more energy to work over that adjustment because the center of gravity is higher and typically there will be more weight off-balance in the spin.

There have been more than enough tall elite skaters with all their triples, so it shouldn't discourage anyone form skating

I find being short to be a disadvantage in adult artistic/dramatic interp events. The top 4-5 skaters seem to almost always be very tall with long legs and sometimes seem to win regardless of whether or not they actually interpret the music and more because they have pretty lines. It can be very frustrating because I can work on my skating skills and musical interpretation all day long, but I cannot make myself taller.

I heard someone say once that long legs look really nice on the ice, but only if you are using them properly. A poorly extended long leg is more noticeable than a poorly exended short leg.

Being on the taller end is also an advantage in synchro. Some of the top teams ideally want skaters in the 5'6-5'9 range. But that really depends on the team. I'm 5'4 and was usually somewhere in the middle in terms of height on my team once I got to the junior/senior levels, although my last year I was actually one of the taller skaters (almost the entire team was in the 5'1-5'4 range that year, only 2 girls were actually taller than me). The next year, I was cut from a different team because they would not look at anyone under 5'6 and the entire team ended up being about 5'8-5'10 once tryouts were over. Now that senior teams can do lifts they are not quite as picky, because they need a few light skaters to hoist into the air, but you can always find a few of those 5'6-ish skaters who are all bones and still really light.

Makes sense, if you've got too much of a range it looks awkward and it's harder to work with, although I've also been on teams where there was almost a foot difference between the shortest and tallest skaters on the team and we made it work.

Back in the '08 Olympics, that's why I liked watching Nastia Liukin. In reality she's not tall but for a gymnast, 5'3 is a giant, and she had such a pretty/graceful line compared to the little compact under 5' gymnasts.

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The team that cut you lost out then. I know a few Haydenettes, and they don't seem to really make too much fuss over height - the girls I know are all on the small side height-wise, and made the team, no problem.

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blades, gary, Lucy, Emily, take care of Aiden and Sami. Sami is my sweetest heart, and always will be, forever. RIP Cubby Boy, my hero dog.

My coach skates synchro and she is about 5'2" I'm 5'6" and had a time finding a pair partner-they were all so much shorter than me!

My center of gravity is higher and it make spinning harder. Jumping I'm not sure about. But the look of your line has to be on the money or you look sloppy. Although I think an experienced judge will see it in a shorter skater as well.

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

Is it a coincidence that most of the better male ice dance coaches I know are fairly tall?

I know they need strength to lift the gal, but the coaches in question are still very thin, not like the solid muscle bulk you see in a football and most good hockey players.

(Oddly enough, "Battle of the Blades" demonstrated that some hockey players have the potential to ice dance.)

Or maybe it's just the ones I know.

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Mitch Grunes ModifyingBoots FallingGently HomePage

IMHO a lot of talk about shorter being better started in the days before scientific off ice training. It was exacerbated by the fact the kids who grow early are often not as successful at the early stages and give up early leaving more short ones in the senior ranks. Also, where your centre of gravity is depends on the length of your legs. I'm fairly tall 5'9" but my legs are shorter than my sister who is 5'5" therefore my center of gravity is actually lower. (She just has amazing long legs.) Unfortunately people tend to lump "tall" as a group, which is inaccurate.

The reigning Olympic Men's Champion is 6'1" and can do all the triples. A well trained female with great core and leg strength who is 5'8" to 5'10" should also be able to do triples. What I do notice is that coaches are predisposed to the short kids. There is the real possibility that this also contributes to the success of shorter skaters.

You can probably tell that it drives me nuts when this myth that short is better is perpetuated. Success depends on a lot of factors. Body type (which is a combination of height, weight, muscle mass, proportion of fast and slow twitch muscles, bust size, hip size etc.) is only one factor and it does not have to be the determining factor. Musicality, natural talent, work ethic, personality, and, of course, money also help determine how far a skater will go.

I don't know about Synchro, but I get the impression that they don't have to do double and triple jumps there, or complex spin combinations and unorthodox positions.

If that's the case, then the body length can be an advantage for them (as it often is in dance, for aesthetic reasons).

I thought Lysacek was over 6' but someone who's skated with him said he's shorter.

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Body type is only one factor, but it is a big factor. A taller skater will have to work harder than a small one to achieve the same things. Every time they grow the jumps/spins get messed up. Some skaters can get them back some can't. It's certainly not impossible to be successful or even elite if you're tall, but it does take more determination and physical strength.

I am tall, and I have a very difficult time with the fast dances--not just the timing, but also the expression--it's very hard for me to make my skating look sharp and crisp. I've failed many a dance for lack of "crispness" while I typically pass a waltz or other flowy style dance the first time out.

@ Bold: What does that have to do with how good a skater is, in the technical sense?

You can have the greatest amount Charisma and musicality in the world, but if you show up to the Olympics with inconsistent triples, bad spins, and no speed you will still get beat by the dead-faced skater who can't keep a beat, but has all the technical elements.

As far as natural talent goes... Lots of Skating and Gymnastics careers of naturally talented atheletes has been ended by growth spurts.

Physics doesn't care if you look happy on the ice or can keep a beat. Physics also doesn't say it's impossible - just more difficult to do the same things with an elongated body. It's not a myth, it's science. Taller skaters have a harder time doing jumps because they require more height, their center of balance is higher, and there is more centrifugal force. Some spin positions are also harder. A Biellman spin on a 5'1" skater is much easier than on a 5'8" skater - assuming both have the required flexibility, of course.

How many skaters that tall do you know [of - you mention 6'1" for Lysacek, who doesn't even have a consistent quad - if at all anymore], who consistently rotate and land quad jumps, and why do you think Tara Lipinski was able to do triple triples with 1/3 the height most ladies require for them?

knee bend?

Lipinski is a horrible example for triple-triples IMO, because she cheated them and jumped like a roller skater. She also had that ankle-snapping flutz. How about using one of the most recent Olympic Podium ladies instead?

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blades, gary, Lucy, Emily, take care of Aiden and Sami. Sami is my sweetest heart, and always will be, forever. RIP Cubby Boy, my hero dog.

Personality has a lot to do with how hard a person works, how well they take correction, how they handle defeat and disappointment, and well or poorly they handle the stress of competition. But of course, none of that has anything to do with how well they skate

Just compare the careers of Johnny Weir and Evan L. Johnny is loaded with talent, Evan, while not untalented, doesn't have the same natural flow and line that Johnny has. I don't know anything about Johnny's work habits, but I have been told by people who have watched Evan train that he is one of the hardest working skaters out there. What Evan has in spades is a personality that drives him to be the best. To take corrections and make then happen, to work until it is a perfect as it can be. That is where personality plays a huge roll in success. There are lots of short talented skaters who never make it anywhere because they simply don't have that special something that drives them.

My point is that it is not height alone that makes things easier or more difficult and simply saying it is height probably causes a fair amount of self selection at the early stages of skating. By your theory, a 5'5" skater with a 36DD bust and 38 inch hips has a better chance than a 5'8" skater with a 32AA bust and 34 inch hips. I disagree. There is more to any sport than how tall you are.

I really don't think height, or lack there of, matters at all. I think the successful, elite skaters have so much more going for them, than just their height. $$$, musicality, dedication and drive, committment, great coaching, and access to plenty of off-ice and ballet. Those things just listed will help any skater overcome any barrier to skating!

I do however think it is extremely important to manage growth spurts appropriately. I think that's the key to longevity and success in this sport.

Not to forget, the last three olympic champions have been 5'5"...that's pretty tall considering the focus is always on tiny.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with Lipinski's Triple Loop/Triple Loop.

Mao Asada is hardly a testament to good jumping technique, and Kim Yu-Na is not foreign to under-rotating triples, especially in combinations. Can she even do a Triple Loop?

Speaking of which, when did the benchmark for being a great skater began to = you can do all triples... minus one?

Follow-Up to other poster: All things being equal, the shorter skater will have an easier time with the large bust and hips, because they will have an easier time staying balanced as well as pulling in for jumps - since their limbs are shorter. It's not my theory. It's the laws of physics. That doesn't mean it's impossible for the longer skater. It will just take more work to "perfect" and more energy and/or finesse in execution.

5'5" is not tall. Even for a woman.

Lol.

The height of the average American woman is 5'4" (according to my nursing book)....I'm not sure about other countries. My daughter is 5'3" and considered "average height" while at 5'6" I'm considered "tall." When I went on vacation to Italy a few years ago, most of the people I talked to called me "very tall" and most of the hotel beds weren't long enough for me LOL!

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Skate@Delaware
Ah, show skating!!! I do it for the glitter!

One inch over average is not tall, though.

I've been to spain, france, Bahrain, malta and other countries and I've never seen a bed that wasn't long enough for someone 5'6" in a hotel. Must be an Italian thing.

I'm 5'4" (but a man, not a woman). If I seen a 5'9" woman on the ice, then yea I'd be surprised (well... I've seen some tall'ish ice dancers... just not freestylers).

How tall was Victoria Volchkova?

I think I will leave Tara safely in the past .. I'm not going to flog that dead horse. As for the laws of physics, the problem with your statement it nothing is ever equal. Furthermore, the ability to rotate comes from the strength of core / ab muscles and the how streamline the body is. Just ask Elene G about that! Sure, a body like Sasha Cohen might be ideal, but she was beaten on a number of occasions but skaters with less perfect body types. The problem with the shorter is better at all costs theory is that it create a climate where taller skaters, who could be very successful, self select out because they think there is no use trying. It also, IMO, causes coaches to give preferential treatment to the little ones. I must admit I find it amusing (not for the poor child, but for the coach who should know better) when one of the little ones doesn't turn out as expected and gets to juvenile / pre novice / novice and is soundly beaten by one of the "big ones" that no one was interested in.

I'm not going to continue to argue with you. I stand by my theory that the potential success of any skater, or any athlete for that matter, depends on a whole host of different variables and can not be summed up by height alone.

No one here is saying that it's height alone.

I've definitely heard comments from coaches regarding height that, if overheard by another tall skater, could be very discouraging. The comments have always come to me as "you rotate/jump/spin/whatever well for a tall girl. Usually tall girls can't rotate/jump/spin/whatever." I'm 5'7--not even THAT tall. If I were a tall girl just starting and overheard that comment, I KNOW I would feel discouraged.

I think it's important for people to remember that natural talent and skill can come in ALL sizes. I don't want to sound cocky, and I'm really not all that tall, but I've had NONE of the issues that are supposed to be such a problem. I'm a natural spinner, rotate very easily, have next to no problems fully rotating jumps, etc, and never HAVE had those problems EXCEPT for when I was more around 5'4. In fact, even though I've had a few complaints about being a taller skater, the biggest being that mistakes are magnified, I wouldn't switch places with a short skater any day. Since I AM on the taller side with long legs, when I do things well, they can be really striking. I don't need to have a full split spiral for it to look elegant. I can cover more ice with fewer pushes (although that's NOT such a good thing when you run out of ice in a moves test). Even a jump of average height looks big because it IS big compared to the jumps of a smaller skater.

I used to resent my height. I really, REALLY hated it. I mean, I liked being tall-ish when out in the normal world, but in the skating world it just made me stick out like an EXTRA sore thumb because even if there was a skater around my age, they were most like 4 or more inches shorter.

Now I'm just pissed that I let generalizations about how the laws of physics should affect skaters hate my body. It's bad enough to be consumed about your weight, but your height too? I hear too much about the 10 and 11 year old skaters calling themselves fat and trying to diet--they shouldn't be made to worry about their height too.

Sorry. That was a little preach-y, but I spent WAY too long literally killing myself to make myself weigh the same amount as skaters half a foot shorter than me. I don't care what the laws of physics say. There are ALWAYS exceptions, and I would have been far better off trying to make myself an exception over trying to make myself smaller. Body image struggles happen in this sport, but no skater should make themselves sick and unhealthy because they're told they have more to hoist into the air.

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